Elections NYC mayoral race

[SSgt Dickweed]

Patrick Bet David who afaik is a (right leaning) immigrant makes scary points.

 

[The_Renaissance]

Pretty interesting how 0.33% can either be a massive number or completely insignificant depending on what they're trying to support. When it's late term abortions, "that's not even a thing, it's only like 1 or 2% of abortions", and when it's crime generally, your odds of being the victim of violent crime in NYC are about 1 in 129, or .78%, and that equals "perfectly safe city", and when some NGO tries to downplay nationwide BLM riots, the best they can possibly come up with was "93% peaceful, only 7% turned into violent riots", which of course means "overwhelmingly peaceful movement so stop criticizing the violent riots".

All of these numbers are multiples to orders of magnitude higher than the 0.33% of police interactions that escalate to violence, yet that is the one that means policing is "rotten to the core" and requires massive changes.

Unless you live in NYC, I say let them have it. This guy is going to be the poster boy for all future DSA candidates in future elections, so if crime goes up, any of the tax base leave, growth slows or stops, prices go up, he'll be the guy future DSA candidates, including AOC trying to run for president in 2028, have to stand by in front of sane voters, or do what they always do and scramble for someone else to blame and claim "that wasn't real socialism" yet again.

That's my view as well, treat it as an intriguing experiment as an outsider looking in. This is what they overwhelmingly wanted so let's see how it pans out.

 

[Limbo Pete]

Oh man, here we go again. For starters, I was the first crisis intervention trained (CIT) police officer on my department many years ago before it became required by most departments. It teaches officers how to deal with mentally ill people and how to differentiate mental illness from say, intoxication so that officers don’t mistake a mentally ill person with being high-however, mental illness and drug/alcohol use do go hand in hand. I got that training in 2015 or so in order to work as the liaison between my department and the homeless.

You will find few people that argue more than me that law enforcement and mental health experts and social workers should be paired up to respond to certain types of calls. I am aware of your city’s program-I think it’s called the behavioral health unit or division. Give credit where it’s due, it is one of the model agencies in this field. Law enforcement is not always equipped to best deal with mentally ill or homeless individuals, however, as I mentioned, seattle and other cities learned the hard way that you can’t replace law enforcement with social workers on some of these calls.

One of my issues with your behavioral response unit and general policing in portland and similar units is that the environment there is such that they are overly permissive to criminal behavior. I have watched videos on these units because I find it interesting and educational. But some of what I watched was ignoring criminal behavior altogether because the person was deemed mentally ill. I watched one incident where a unit like this responded to a call of a guy randomly punching people in the streets. They arrived and tried to talk to him and he was making threats towards those in the unit. He had already hit several people and was threatening them and they just kept talking to him and their ultimate “success” was calming him down and giving him his options to seek mental health treatment. He ended up refusing, but they said they got all his information to keep a file on him so they would be better equipped to deal with him in the future. The dude had already attacked people on the street and was making threats to “knock their fucking heads off” if I recall-it’s been a few years but there is another video I show in one of my classes when we start discussing different types of police specialization units such as swat units, special detective units, crisis units, hostage negotiators, drug task forces, gang units, etc. Anway, they walked away from a violent man and simply let him go without holding him responsible for punching people and making threats and they patted themselves on the back like “we helped a man today” and I’m like-no, you may have calmed down a mentally ill drugged uo man who has now learned there are no consequences when he feels like hitting someone. There’s no justice for the people he struck that day and he absolutely will do it again and refuse the help over and over:

Portland/oregon and your decriminalizing of all drugs has been a total nightmare in my opinion leading to jumps in overdoses and crime and this same unit responds to people that are addicts and high af slumped over in the streets. They hand them a card with helplines on it and walk away saying “well, maybe this one will get some help.” But it’s not just being an addict or high; I have watched videos where these obviously heavily fucked up persons are destroying property and acting disorderly because of their drugs(and probably some mental illness as well) and again, othing is done with them other than offering help that we know they won’t accept and don’t want. I watched one of those videos where a guy was punching someone’s car windows and beating up their car. He didn’t break the windows, but the video clearly shows that he is fucked up both on drugs and mental issues-they call for an e squad that shows up and evaluates him and then they all end up leaving after giving him so advice on getting help- it he was free to continue on his rampage and his criminal behavior was overlooked because he was an addict.

People make the worst assumptions that law enforcement WANT to shoot people or that it is their go to solution for people with mental illness, which is 100% fake news. But sending social workers on potentially dangerous situations without law enforcement back up or partners-is insane but in 2020, everything was insane. Cops were public enemy number one and the attitude was that sending cops to calls like that was pouring gasoline in a brush fire. Pairing officers with mental health experts and social workers is the future and smart practices-but you need that law enforcement element in case things get bad, which happens quite a lot. Mentally ill people are so very unpredictable and can turn on a dime and become violent m. Most don’t, but it happens so frequently that you need someone there that is capable of dealing with a physical threat or if the person suddenly pulls out a weapon.

I even started doing stuff like this long before most places were even thinking about it since my original degree is in psychology and I worked in a child psychiatric hospital before I was a cop. I had the phone numbers for mental health counselors, behavioral units, drug rehabilitation clinics and counseling going back as far as 2005 ish. I also used to teach self-defense classes for the public. It started out after a student asked to speak to my wife and mentioned that she heard I was a cop. She then mentioned her sister had been violently raped and was now suffering from really bad ptsd and asked if I would be willing to teach her and other students self defense. I had been training police officers in defensive tactics for about ten years at that point and put a rush in with the chief to immediately send me to training so I could offer classes for the community. Surprisingly, he immediately agreed and within a month, I had my SHARP certification, which is sexual harassment and rape prevention training. I needed the certification for insurance and certification purposes, but I greatly altered the program. The first group I taught was a rape survivors group and I invited that student and her sister. It was intimidating to talk about rape and self defense tactics to a group of severely traumatized women. I was afraid I might trigger them so we brought in a female officer and had her trained as well. But it was one of the most rewarding training sessions I have ever had. That led to me teaching other groups and businesses-including a place that dealt solely with autism. I trained them and then in exchange, asked them to train me with how to deal with autistic individuals since I had previously had a call involving a highly autistic and non-verbal individual who was having sensory issues while at the casino and it was a very difficult call to sort out. So they trained me a few hours over a period of time and I got all their contact info and from that point on, when I got a call for an autistic person in crisis, I would show up and then call one of them to come to the scene.

And I sought out de-escalation training to pass on to my department, it there are actually no places within driving distance for that type of training for law enforcement-so I did what I always do-research and incorporated it into my defensive tactics training for the officers. I stressed how incredibly important it is to try and de-escalate thie situation by remaining as calm as possible, avoid shouting if possible-but it’s not always possible because sometimes remaining passive can invite an attack.

Point being, that I have been doing this stuff for a long time and my first job after the police department was as a youth crisis response team member for a non profit where we would get sent to houses where kids were acting wild. These are calls that I used to respond to as a cop. I used to tell parents that I am not a parenting coach and would end up calming the situation down, telling the parents some options, and leave if there was no violence or anything. They weren’t really police related matters. As the crisis intervention team for children, we would go on these same calls so police don’t have to and it freed them up for actual police calls. They ranged in stuff like fighting with a sibling to full on mental health crisis issues. We would stabilize them, talk to them, and then hook the parents up with resources. I was technically a social worker during that time period. But it is one more tool to fill in the gaps to deal with stuff that police have been getting sent on for the last few decades.

Brosky, I was talking about CAHOOTS. In Eugene. Pardon me for not reading that massive screed.

 

[Limbo Pete]

They deal with them in a controlled environment where meds are given, the doors are locked, security guards are present, and there are no weapons.

Mental health workers do outpatient care in-home all the time. Or private practice. And even in in-patient, you're not making the point you think you are, because it's them actually doing the work; security, if it's available, =/= therapist

 

[UberHere]

Mental health workers do outpatient care in-home all the time. Or private practice. And even in in-patient, you're not making the point you think you are, because it's them actually doing the work; security, if it's available, =/= therapist

Dude. When they do that work it is always in a controlled environment, not during a crisis situation.

I work in healthcare and did plenty of psych rotations so you’re not putting anything past me here. If someone is calling 9-11, that’s not a standard house call lol

 

[Limbo Pete]

Dude. When they do the work it is ajways in a controlled environment, not during a crisis.

I work in healthcare and did plenty of psych rotations so you’re but putting anything past me

There's no such thing as a totally controlled environment in mental healthcare, unless the person is actually physically restrained. And that goes for children as well as adults. And by the way, as I mentioned, a ton of therapy work is done out patient, which is absolutely not a controlled environment.

 

[UberHere]

There's no such thing as a totally controlled environment in mental healthcare, unless the person is actually physically restrained. And that goes for children as well as adults. And by the way, as I mentioned, a ton of therapy work is done out patient, which is absolutely not a controlled environment.

Yes it is. Those people are on meds and have regular follow ups (assuming we’re talking about potentially dangerous people). If anything is off or the follow up is missed, then the doctor orders a pick up on that patient.

And if someone’s calling 9-11 prompting a police response, that’s not a typical house call.

 

[Limbo Pete]

Yes it is. Those people are on meds and have regular follow ups (assuming we’re talking about potentially dangerous people). And if someone’s calling 9-11 prompting a police response, that’s not a typical house call.

Having meds and "follow ups" does not prevent people from being dangerous lol mental health workers are still just right there doing their job

 

[UberHere]

Having meds and "follow ups" does not prevent people from being dangerous lol mental health workers are still just right there doing their job

Yeah but we’re talking about responses to crisis situations not routine work

 

[Limbo Pete]

Yeah but we’re talking about responses to crisis situations not routine work

The entire reason you and I started off on this is because I pointed out mental health workers are always dealing with dangerous people regardless. Sitting in a room one on one with a lunatic and trying to provide therapy is dangerous. The entire nature of the work is that way.

 

[UberHere]

The entire reason you and I started off on this is because I pointed out mental health workers are always dealing with dangerous people regardless. Sitting in a room one on one with a lunatic and trying to provide therapy is dangerous. The entire nature of the work is that way.

Right but that’s still a far cry from a police dispatch because someone is causing trouble out in public or in a domestic case.

 

[Limbo Pete]

Right but that’s still a far cry from a police dispatch because someone is causing trouble out in public or in a domestic case.

It's not, especially if crisis response is integrated into the EMS dispatch system. CAHOOTS actually worked with the police to build response criteria, which allowed the dispatchers to much more accurately gauge who to send where.

 

[UberHere]

It's not, especially if crisis response is integrated into the EMS dispatch system. CAHOOTS actually worked with the police to build response criteria, which allowed the dispatchers to much more accurately gauge who to send where.

I dunno I’ve done EMS work too and if there was any potential for danger we’d let the cops assess the situation first and declare the area safe before we went in. Not dispatching police to potentially dangerous situations seems like a disaster waiting to happen

 

[Limbo Pete]

I dunno I’ve done EMS work too and if there was any potential for danger we’d let the cops assess the situation first and declare the area safe before we went in. Not dispatching police to potentially dangerous situations seems like a disaster waiting to happen

It's been done very safely and effectively. Having the police help build the response criteria was one of the reasons CAHOOTS has worked so well with police (who don't want to respond to every single thing)

 

[nhbbear]

Brosky, I was talking about CAHOOTS. In Eugene. Pardon me for not reading that massive screed.

I am well aware of what cahoots is. I am also well aware of the fact that mamdani wants to emulate that system. I am also aware that cahoots in Eugene just ended at the beginning of the year at some point. I keep up on all of this stuff because I was just telling my classes about crisis intervention training and how it takes some things off of police plates. Personally, I still think an officer should be paired with those teams in case it does turn violent and you don’t end up with dead social workers/paramedics-but in extreme left places like seattle, they would rather that happen than some poor social outcast be shot by the mean police officers.

And Eugene, I thought you were portlands resident expert?
And so sorry I outpaced your reading level and any drive you may have to reed gud.

 

[MrShady]

It is there job to protect the public.... ooof

Sorry to chime in but one point I'd like to say technically, their legal duties are not to protect the public but rather enforce and uphold laws.

There has been case law on this very issue where officers were not held liable for this technicality.

Carry on

 

[Crazy Source]

Sorry to chime in but one point I'd like to say technically, their legal duties are not to protect the public but rather enforce and uphold laws.

There has been case law on this very issue where officers were not held liable for this technicality.

Carry on

It figures they would find a legal loophole to absolve them from liability.

 

[Limbo Pete]

I am well aware of what cahoots is. I am also well aware of the fact that mamdani wants to emulate that system. I am also aware that cahoots in Eugene just ended at the beginning of the year at some point. I keep up on all of this stuff because I was just telling my classes about crisis intervention training and how it takes some things off of police plates. Personally, I still think an officer should be paired with those teams in case it does turn violent and you don’t end up with dead social workers/paramedics-but in extreme left places like seattle, they would rather that happen than some poor social outcast be shot by the mean police officers.

And Eugene, I thought you were portlands resident expert?
And so sorry I outpaced your reading level and any drive you may have to reed gud.

Cahoots didn't end, they withdrew service to Springfield because of issues with the parent organization, Whitebird, and their handling of the city contract criteria. It has nothing to do with the effectiveness of service, which is still excellent.

 

[SurferH2O]

84% of women in NY City voted for Mamdani.

It will be fun to see these women navigate Marxism and Islam. I wish them the best.

Who wants a jury trial in New York if you're not a Leftist?

 

[MrShady]

Funny meltdown