Nurmagomedov vs Gracie

[gono btw]

Yeah I just had to correct the guy that was saying that rules were changed to help wrestlers when most of the rule changes like only 3 5 minute rounds(instead of infinite until finish) and the removal of headbutts did the opposite.

well, the no time limit was an historical BJJ request... since the Vale Tudo days... Its removal did mark a new era that forced the BJJ community to adapt...

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

The scoring, at least in the beginning, favored wrestlers. Take downs and lay and pray being rewarded as "Octogan control " then later Randy and wall and stall. But the rules can go either way, I'm inclined to say that they're what they are to suppress the morality police and their pearl clutching over violence in combat sports.

Now the scoring favors people with active grappling and striking, and doesn't reward the Matt Linland special of take down and pitty pat punch to avoid stand up.

The person that I was quoting was talking about before what you are talking about. The time period he was telling about didn't have judges.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

well, the no time limit was an historical BJJ request... since the Vale Tudo days... Its removal did mark a new era that forced the BJJ community to adapt...

Yeah the BJJ guys and wrestlers were fine with the endless rounds, don't think the strikers liked it much though.

 

[Coconutwater]

Yes, and no. Sport sambo got pins, including if you got a submissions on so they would rather turtle. Combat Sambo don't have pins but the referee will stand you up in about 10 seconds if you're not close to a finish.

I know the difference in rules, I specifically mean combat sambo guys know their bottom work. At least a decent guy can fight from bottom, from what I’ve seen, enough to survive in an MMA context.

 

[CorninginChristianburg]

Don't even know where to start.

I'll just say 90% of what you wrote is factually wrong.

I can do you one better and simply assert that all of it is true...

I did catch a typo, I wrote Chechnya but meant to write the Caucuses.

 

[Adamant]

Prime Rickson rips Khabib's arm off.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

I think if we were to compare the two in a fair situation you would have to take the time out, and judges, then wait till one either taps out or beaten. UFC rules don't help BJJ style. The rules changed around Mark Coleman rise or when the UFC was trying to get sanctioned by all he states, before New York was sanctioned. The UFC at that time wanted to convince the states that it was legal and not human cock fighting but a sport so they put dominant wrestling rules in it that favor American wrestling style fighters. You have amazing fighters in both styles of fighting. It just depends who is representing the style. I personally go with Sambo. I never like the idea of fighting off your back.

I don't think the rules favor wrestlers much. I hear that a lot, but seems like bullshit to me. Taking out headbutts hurts wrestlers most. Taking out knees an kicks to the head of grounded opponents hurts wrestlers. The cage hurts wrestlers, which is why wrestlers try to pull their opponents away from the cage. Ref stand ups hurt wrestlers. Fights restarting on the feet every round hurts wrestlers.

Some rules help wrestlers too. But it's far from as simple as saying that the rules favor wrestlers. Truth is the laws of physics favor great grapplers more than the Unified Rules do.

 

[CorninginChristianburg]

I don't think the rules favor wrestlers much. I hear that a lot, but seems like bullshit to me. Taking out headbutts hurts wrestlers most. Taking out knees an kicks to the head of grounded opponents hurts wrestlers. The cage hurts wrestlers, which is why wrestlers try to pull their opponents away from the cage. Ref stand ups hurt wrestlers. Fights restarting on the feet every round hurts wrestlers.

Some rules help wrestlers too. But it's far from as simple as saying that the rules favor wrestlers. Truth is the laws of physics favor great grapplers more than the Unified Rules do.

Also taking away 12 elbows.

 

[Beastos]

BJJ is definitely overrated at this moment, very few people are winning by pulling guard or whatever dumb shit is taught in BJJ schools

what a moron, not even worth elaborating.

 

[Beastos]

this sums it up.! BBJ is overrated in the cage as long as fighters don't give up their backs or any limbs. But for some stupid reason BJJ gyms are in every corner in every major US cities. And those Brazilian implants are shamefully charging from $250- to $300 per month to train this crap.

wow, a 2005 account with this much stupidity

 

[Klaavical]

This will piss some people off, but...

Brazilian Jujitsu Isn’t Brazilian

It’s still absolutely hilarious how they can claim creation of the Martial Art as their own when it’s historically known that it was imported, and taught.

Huh?

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu was developed around 1920 by Brazilian brothers Carlos, Oswaldo, Gastão Jr., George, and Hélio Gracie, after Carlos was taught traditional Kodokan judo by a travelling Japanese judoka, Mitsuyo Maeda, in 1917. Later they developed their own self-defense system named Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.

 

[HHJ]

Ahah idiot, try to step in the octagon without training whatever dumb shit is thaught in BJJ schools and see what happens.

You gotta admit that was funny tho. He shoulda mentioned the Pajamas

 

[shoorik1987]

I can do you one better and simply assert that all of it is true...

I did catch a typo, I wrote Chechnya but meant to write the Caucuses.

Well first of all it's Dagestan that is by far the biggest talent pool in wrestling, without competition. Chechnya is decent but meh...

Second Khabib, Islam + cousins are 100% Abdulmanap products. Do them just being recruiters is wrong.

Sambo being spin off of wrestling is just ridiculous. Because Sambo base was old-school judo. Sambo maintained a lot of old school judo techniques that are now prohibited in modern judo.

 

[CorninginChristianburg]

Well first of all it's Dagestan that is by far the biggest talent pool in wrestling, without competition. Chechnya is decent but meh...

Yes, you caught the typo that I corrected above, it was caucases.

Second Khabib, Islam + cousins are 100% Abdulmanap products. Do them just being recruiters is wrong.

I think you lost sight of my argument.

Yeah of course he taught his son and his cousins. But he actually had a big gym in dagestan and many top fighters come out of the gym, not just his son and cousins. But basically kids grow up competing in wrestling in the area and they would recruit many of the top prospects to their gym, so many people come in with some pedigree. And of course many other top athletes arise out of other gyms in dagestan and other caucasian regions as well. And the big thing that he proceeded to do was to recruit these gym members to MMA. And that's why you know and care about Abdulmanap Nurmagomedov. That's the innovative thing that he did. He did run a successful sambo gym, very much so actually. His gym is like the Alabama of Dagestan or even Russian sambo at large, and he was like Nick Saban for that program. But his legacy internationally comes from the recruiting pipeline that he established to transition Russian sambists to MMA.

Did he invent brand new techniques that no one had thought of before and coach them to his students? No. Did he invent an entirely new martial art? No. All the things that his students do, other people thought of before. The region, his province in particular has one of the strongest grappling traditions of anywhere in the world, arguably the strongest. What he pioneered wasn't a technique or a training method, it was an application. He wasn't even the first to realize that sambists could be really good at MMA, that's been obvious for a while, I mean many still consider Fedor the greatest MMA fighter of all time. As tradition would tell, the Gracie story is that they created these techniques, and they coached it to students along lineages, and those students passed on those techniques. Abdulmanap didn't create a new martial art and teach it to his students, he created a team which served as a conduit for fighters in the region to transition into MMA. .

Sambo being spin off of wrestling is just ridiculous. Because Sambo base was old-school judo. Sambo maintained a lot of old school judo techniques that are now prohibited in modern judo.

I'm not talking about the history, I'm talking about the present. The history is long and complicated, and the fact is that the sport itself of Sambo has changed a lot and obviously not stayed the same over time. But right now, the application to MMA that sambo has far more resembles modern wrestling than modern judo. And Russia, Dagestan in particular, is very good at that, and that is of course not solely due to Eagles MMA. That's all you need to know.

 

[Coconutwater]

Prime Rickson rips Khabib's arm off.

I respect Heeeckson, but he wouldn’t be able to take Khabib down, so his only option is working guard. I don’t see prime Rickson catching Khabib in Vale Tudo or MMA. Khabib has way too good control, posture, and pressure, to maintain his advantageous position.