Nurmagomedov vs Gracie

textwarrior said:
I think if we were to compare the two in a fair situation you would have to take the time out, and judges, then wait till one either taps out or beaten. UFC rules don't help BJJ style. The rules changed around Mark Coleman rise or when the UFC was trying to get sanctioned by all he states, before New York was sanctioned. The UFC at that time wanted to convince the states that it was legal and not human cock fighting but a sport so they put dominant wrestling rules in it that favor American wrestling style fighters. You have amazing fighters in both styles of fighting. It just depends who is representing the style. I personally go with Sambo. I never like the idea of fighting off your back.
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I don't agree. They removed headbutts on the ground cause guys like Coleman were too dominant with them. That helped the BJJ guys and took away a weapon wrestlers could easily use.
 
NoBiasJustMMA said:
I don't agree. They removed headbutts on the ground cause guys like Coleman were too dominant with them. That helped the BJJ guys and took away a weapon wrestlers could easily use.
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The UFC rules in the way they score help wrestlers.
 
Doctor Stoppage said:
I disagree. Guard is the base for learning tons of submissions and principles, almost like a horse stance or bladed stance for other arts. You don't have to pull guard in MMA and submit someone for it to have value. Not to mention if you're on bottom in MMA, what other position would you want to be in? Other than half guard, what position can you viably threaten from?

And BJJ is extremely valuable outside of MMA, so thank goodness they're on every corner.



The defense of submissions alone is worth training BJJ.

I'd much rather be in guard if I get taken down than to be on bottom SC or HG or any other position honestly.
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i didnt say BJJ has zero value in MMA. I said it was overrated. Even if you have a sick guard and can do many things from your back, ask any top level BJJ guys and they will tell you they DONT WANT to be on their back in the MMA cage against any decent fighter. Because guards don't work as well in MMA as in BJJ when you get pummeled with bombs and sharp elbows from top. Guards may help you to clock manage your opponent to survive till the end of a round to start clean, if you can successfully tie your opponent's arms from the guard.
 
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The Chosen said:
BJJ is definitely overrated at this moment, very few people are winning by pulling guard or whatever dumb shit is taught in BJJ schools
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Virtually everyone still trains in BJJ. It's just become part of mma rather than being the dominant martial art.
 
SherdogWasNeverMyFriend said:
Real TLDR:
khabib-sambo-shirt.jpg
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Meh... I recall seeing T-shirts with "If BJJ was easy, it would be called Sambo" before Khabib popularized the opposite.

It's kind of funny to see it happen... just how GSP became famous for saying "I was not impressed with your performance" to Hughes while he was just paraphrasing what Hughes told him after his fight with (if I recall correctly) BJ Penn.

If you watch when it happens, Hughes even look at Rogan and say "the best he can say to me is something I said in his last fight??"
And it stayed with me, because that was how far removed GSP was from trash talking. He was such a nice guy, that he couldn't think of anything to offend the other guy, save repeat what the guy said to him prior...
 
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New Yorkido said:
i didnt say BJJ has zero value in MMA. I said it was overrated. Even if you have a sick guard and can do many things from your back, ask any top level BJJ guys and they will tell you they DONT WANT to be on their back in the MMA cage against any decent fighter. Because guards don't work as well in MMA as in BJJ when you get pummeled by bombs from top. Guards may help you to clock manage your opponent to survive till the end of a round to start clean, if you can successfully tie your opponent's arms from the guard.
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Of course you don't want to be on your back in MMA. I don't want to be on my back in BJJ either, I'd much rather be on top. You can literally ask a white belt that question.

What is the most advantageous position(s) in MMA? Back control, mount and side control. What is the best position for being on your back? Guard. What position from your back can you mount offense? Guard. BJJ isn't overrated, but everyone at the top levels of MMA have a baseline level of training in it so that they aren't vulnerable. If you are deficient in BJJ you will not survive MMA today. On the contrary, plenty of top level fighters over the last decade come from countries where wrestling is basically non-existent, they learn takedown defense and how to stand back up to compete against wrestling. Not that the two arts are independent anymore with MMA.

Maybe BJJ defense is more important than BJJ offense nowadays, but BJJ is anything but overrated.

https://www.tapology.com/rankings/4154-2021-greatest-mma-submissions?ranking=4154
 
blaseblah said:
Virtually everyone still trains in BJJ. It's just become part of mma rather than being the dominant martial art.
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BJJ/Sambo or any flavor of submission grappling is absolutely essential to surviving on the ground in MMA.

Everyone trains BJJ these days and the result of that is guys cancel each other out on the ground. The same thing happens when two dominant wrestlers go at it in MMA. Their skills end up neutralizing each other and you end up with a striking match.
 
Pallopellepaviaani said:
The early UFCs were a BJJ propaganda machine.

Guaranteed there were martial artists capable of whooping Gracie ass even in the 1990s. Their opponents were carefully selected to not have the means to combat them though.
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This is such a lie. Who are these people? No one can ever actually name them or they name some bogus Wing Tsun dude who would have done about as well as Fred Ettish.

Until people learned grappling well enough to have takedown defense, and learned BJJ well enough to not get submitted, the Gracies were going to beat just about anyone, hand-picked or not.

Sure out of 7 billion people there were people who would beat Royce on a fluke but not consistently. It's not like these names were known and avoided, that is the ridiculous "common knowledge" that the martial arts world tried to hold onto during the early UFCs "they're avoiding Emin Boztepe, he would kill Gracie" LOL

And any bigger names in boxing or football, for example, were making far more money than the UFC could possibly offer to compensate for the risk of being in the Octagon.
 
Are we talking grappling or full pledged mma match?

Sambo fighter will destroy just a bjj fighter in an mma match.
 
Bjj is better than sambo on the ground. Khabib is not a sambo product. He started with Freestyle wrestling after he trains in other martial arts like Pankration (in Russia there is also a pro league) , Grappling (a submission wrestling style) and combat sambo. So his propaganda is ridiculous like his instructional called sambo but entirely with no jacket. His wrestling has a lot of AKA influence.
Gracie is a pure bjj athlete.
 
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El Panteron said:
Ahah idiot, try to step in the octagon without training whatever dumb shit is thaught in BJJ schools and see what happens.
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Justin Gaethje got a title shot in the most stacked division in MMA while being a novice white belt
 
El Panteron said:
Ahah idiot, try to step in the octagon without training whatever dumb shit is thaught in BJJ schools and see what happens.
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You fool!

You do realize sambo, catch wrestling and original judo was full of submissions?

Bjj doesn't hold the patent on ground fighting.

Today's mma gyms incorporate all forms of grappling. Focus is on scramble and top position as well as submissions. Gracie revolved around sitting in the guard or gang up on your opponent after the match if you can't beat them...
 
kingghidrah said:
This is such a lie. Who are these people? No one can ever actually name them or they name some bogus Wing Tsun dude who would have done about as well as Fred Ettish.

Until people learned grappling well enough to have takedown defense, and learned BJJ well enough to not get submitted, the Gracies were going to beat just about anyone, hand-picked or not.

Sure out of 7 billion people there were people who would beat Royce on a fluke but not consistently. It's not like these names were known and avoided, that is the ridiculous "common knowledge" that the martial arts world tried to hold onto during the early UFCs "they're avoiding Emin Boztepe, he would kill Gracie" LOL

And any bigger names in boxing or football, for example, were making far more money than the UFC could possibly offer to compensate for the risk of being in the Octagon.
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Oleg Taktarov would have beat Royce
 
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