(Now backed by science) Anatomy of the ideal fighter -and a very interesting surprise-

[fries in the bag]

I've started holidays and... I got sick. So I've spent probably too many hours researching papers, studies and articles on physiology, biomechanics and sports science that pose hypotheses, conjectures, theoretical assumptions. Most of them get to similar conclusions.

He measures 1.91 (diminishing returns starts aprox. at 1.93) and competes at LHW.
203cm wingspan (great relative reach). Aprox. 9% body fat. Short femur, long shin. Compact torso. Short and wide neck. Medium humerus, long forearm.

The surprising thing is that, on fight night, he weights 96 kg, so cutting less than 7 pounds.
And -once reached the desired lean muscle mass-, he trains year round (on and off camp) and competes at his optimal weight, without barely any fluctuation.

He has won genetic lottery, and some fighters would not be at his peak performance at single digit body fat% so they would weight slightly more in the cage.
Still, much closer to what Jiri does than to what Poatan i.e. does.
In fact, and that's kinda weird, Jiri's height and wingspan are exactly 1.91 (6'3") and 203 (80").

Sources:
James, L.P., Haff, G.G., Kelly, V.G., & Beckman, E.M. (2016). Towards a determination of the physiological characteristics distinguishing successful MMA athletes: A systematic review.
UFC Performance Institute (2021). PI Annual Report – Athlete Load, Recovery, Composition & Performance Benchmarks.
NSCA International MMA Conference Proceedings
Zemková, E., Hamar, D., & Pupiš, M. (2018). Biomechanics and physiology of fighting sports.
Callan, S.D., Brunner, D.M., Devolve, K.L., Mullins, B., Guskiewicz, K., & Ruby, B.C. (2000). Physiological profiles of elite freestyle wrestlers.
Franchini, E., Brito, C.J., & Artioli, G.G. (2012). Weight loss in combat sports: physiological, psychological and performance effects.
Almansba, R., Franchini, E., Sterkowicz, S., Femia, P., & Escobar-Molina, R. (2007). Anthropometrical and physiological characteristics of elite judo athletes.
Marinho, B.F., Vilaça-Alves, J., Monteiro, C.P., & Aidar, F.J. (2016). Anthropometric profile and physical performance of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu athletes.

so is having a 10" johnson not ideal for fighting?

 

[spinup]

So massive weight-cutting and rebounding could be just a "game theory" sort of thing that fighters and his teams take for granted.
Even in a perfect weight cut and rehydration, a fighter's CNS is not fully recovered (compromising reflexes, coordination, psychomotricity and cognition. And you need to process lots of info on the fly in a fight) is giving up glycogen (muscle strength endurance and ability to contract), hormonal environment (a worse training camp and testosterone/adrenaline/cortisol... levels in the cage).
And, obviously, chin.

Studies conclude that even giving up 25+ lbs to fight someone like Poatan, i.e. should be the right choice.

You don't seem to consider the weight class in your analysis so it's a bit odd to discuss weight cutting if you are looking for the best open weight fighter.
Are your height and reach nulvers scalable by weight class?

 

[prime_lobov]

Came into this thread expecting a detailed analysis of Conor’s penis, left disappointed.

 

[BigOlJeet]

Prime Jon Jones ?

Prime Jones has an L to Hamill, juiced Jones during his run is a fallacy.

 

[Chagaev]

If you guys are using Jones vs DC as reference for lanky vs stocky maybe take into account that there's a difference of more than 8 years between them in Jon's favor.

 

[Rubios]

You don't seem to consider the weight class in your analysis so it's a bit odd to discuss weight cutting if you are looking for the best open weight fighter.
Are your height and reach nulvers scalable by weight class?

FIrst things first: I'm a huge nerd regarding some scientific topics, but not a scientist myself. Not close, at all.

The specific study about weight cutting (not the only one addressing this topic in the OP references) is actually a meta analysis, so its goal is to gather data from the latest, most reliable studies in order to reach a certain "state of the art" consensus.
It's just about 10 years old so very current. MMA is young, weight/water cutting in boxing i.e. is not and the effects of dehydration and the time window to fully recover are very well documented.

Keep in mind that, since these are theoretical exercises, ethics are not a factor. Although extreme weight cutting is unhealthy, they would advise it if they concluded it offers competitive improvement. There are studies on the best possible PEDs protocol.

That said, the "ideal fighter" happens to fight at LHW. The cons of weight cutting are transversal to any division, but I cannot infer that cutting only a bit more than 3% should be the optimal choice for lower weight classes.
But, most likely, cutting more than 10% is not either.

 

[spinup]

That said, the "ideal fighter" happens to fight at LHW.

Sorry if missed an explanation in the thread but what does "ideal fighter" means?

Does it mean who would be the best in an open weight competition?
Or who who would be having the best results in their own weight class?

 

[Clark Rogers]

I mean yall do realize that even if Jiri matches TS's dreamed up "perfect fighter" Jones still is and was both objectively better, and more successful, than Jiri ever will be at this point? Front page seems to think it's a debate lol.

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

I've started holidays and... I got sick. So I've spent probably too many hours researching papers, studies and articles on physiology, biomechanics and sports science that pose hypotheses, conjectures, theoretical assumptions. Most of them get to similar conclusions.

He measures 1.91 (diminishing returns starts aprox. at 1.93) and competes at LHW.
203cm wingspan (great relative reach). Aprox. 9% body fat. Short femur, long shin. Compact torso. Short and wide neck. Medium humerus, long forearm.

The surprising thing is that, on fight night, he weights 96 kg, so cutting less than 7 pounds.
And -once reached the desired lean muscle mass-, he trains year round (on and off camp) and competes at his optimal weight, without barely any fluctuation.

He has won genetic lottery, and some fighters would not be at his peak performance at single digit body fat% so they would weight slightly more in the cage.
Still, much closer to what Jiri does than to what Poatan i.e. does.
In fact, and that's kinda weird, Jiri's height and wingspan are exactly 1.91 (6'3") and 203 (80").

Sources:
James, L.P., Haff, G.G., Kelly, V.G., & Beckman, E.M. (2016). Towards a determination of the physiological characteristics distinguishing successful MMA athletes: A systematic review.
UFC Performance Institute (2021). PI Annual Report – Athlete Load, Recovery, Composition & Performance Benchmarks.
NSCA International MMA Conference Proceedings
Zemková, E., Hamar, D., & Pupiš, M. (2018). Biomechanics and physiology of fighting sports.
Callan, S.D., Brunner, D.M., Devolve, K.L., Mullins, B., Guskiewicz, K., & Ruby, B.C. (2000). Physiological profiles of elite freestyle wrestlers.
Franchini, E., Brito, C.J., & Artioli, G.G. (2012). Weight loss in combat sports: physiological, psychological and performance effects.
Almansba, R., Franchini, E., Sterkowicz, S., Femia, P., & Escobar-Molina, R. (2007). Anthropometrical and physiological characteristics of elite judo athletes.
Marinho, B.F., Vilaça-Alves, J., Monteiro, C.P., & Aidar, F.J. (2016). Anthropometric profile and physical performance of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu athletes.

TS wrote this all up while naked and constantly touching himself.

 

[Rubios]

I mean yall do realize that even if Jiri matches TS's dreamed up "perfect fighter" Jones still is and was both objectively better, and more successful, than Jiri ever will be at this point? Front page seems to think it's a debate lol.

(OP) not for me.
Yeah, obviously.

IF the scientific consensus is correct and JJ's and Jiri's talent, gameplan, IQ, athleticism & conditioning, ability to perform under pressure... were perfectly even, Jiri should have the upper hand.

 

[Rubios]

Sorry if missed an explanation in the thread but what does "ideal fighter" means?

Does it mean who would be the best in an open weight competition?
Or who who would be having the best results in their own weight class?

It's just that the anatomy/anthropometry/body composition of the hypothetical ideal fighting physique is 1.91 / 96 kg and fits @ LHW because the studies advise not to cut down to MW. Well, barely to do not cut at all (205 are 93 kg).

At HW, he would give up +50 lbs, so... most likely not.

The perfect proportions would suit a LHW, that's all.

 

[nonoob]

strong strong strong ratio of researchers names to weird topic ratio

Science Rocks !​

 

[1King]

Jiri was the first person to spring to mind before OP actually mentioned him, but I guess Jon Jones was a way more orthodox fighter with a more orthodox base.

LHW Jon Jones is probably the archetype. The fact he achieved what he achieved despite being a Mcgregor-esque fuck up is monumental. Give a sensible human that physique and skill set and they're probably 40-1 by now ignoring all the retarded suspensions and issues with the law. They might never have got DQ'ed if they were a dirtbag, either.

I think Jon is the GOAT, but I’m not always sure the big gaps didn’t help. I think some guys it would hurt. Most top tier athletes snd competitors probably lean more into overtraining than undertraining in the grand scheme of things. Longer recovery periods, less wear on the chin, etc MAY have contributed to Jon staying so good for so long.

But as you said, it’s also possible that being locked in creates an even more terrifying version.

 

[spinup]

It's just that the anatomy/anthropometry/body composition of the hypothetical ideal fighting physique is 1.91 / 96 kg and fits @ LHW because the studies advise not to cut down to MW. Well, barely to do not cut at all (205 are 93 kg).

At HW, he would give up +50 lbs, so... most likely not.

The perfect proportions would suit a LHW, that's all.

If there is an ideal body size for fighting, then it implies it is without weight divisions, so open weight.

If you consider weight cuts, it means weight divisions and it becomes more complicated.
You have to consider the ideal size
for each division but also the relative competition level there is.

A lean 1.98/120kg would have more chances to be a successful champion than a lean 1.80/75kg.

 

[Rubios]

TS wrote this all up while naked and constantly touching himself.

Not constantly.

 

[arcadeperfect]

 

[BroScienceTalkatWork]

It's just that the anatomy/anthropometry/body composition of the hypothetical ideal fighting physique is 1.91 / 96 kg and fits @ LHW because the studies advise not to cut down to MW. Well, barely to do not cut at all (205 are 93 kg).

At HW, he would give up +50 lbs, so... most likely not.

The perfect proportions would suit a LHW, that's all.

What the fuck does that mean? Feel like I got brain damage from reading that

“ideally” you would be Tom Aspinalls size if it’s open weight.

Unless we’re saying Light Heavyweight is the most aesthetic weight class which doesn’t make any sense.

Just say y’all wanna bone Jiri and keep it moving.

 

[Rampage_Jackson]

This is very interesting.
Slightly homosexual
But very interesting.

I've got it down as slightly interesting and very homosexual

 

[BroScienceTalkatWork]

It's just that the anatomy/anthropometry/body composition of the hypothetical ideal fighting physique is 1.91 / 96 kg and fits @ LHW because the studies advise not to cut down to MW. Well, barely to do not cut at all (205 are 93 kg).

At HW, he would give up +50 lbs, so... most likely not.

The perfect proportions would suit a LHW, that's all.

Bro

I guarantee you’re misinterpreting some shit

The best fighter is in the 2nd best (heaviest) weight class? That’s some quantum physics scheodingers cat type shit

it’s either open weight or it’s not open weight.

And if it’s open weight 209 pounds is light as fuck. I live in the Midwest.. really not uncommon to find 280 pounds of muscle and fat.. former college lineman types


snap a dude like Jiri in half. With equal training..

 

[Rubios]

What the fuck does that mean? Feel like I got brain damage from reading that

“ideally” you would be Tom Aspinalls size if it’s open weight.

Unless we’re saying Light Heavyweight is the most aesthetic weight class which doesn’t make any sense.

Just say y’all wanna bone Jiri and keep it moving.

Dude, there's no need to be rude. You're just jumping into conclusions that weren't there.

The data I gathered suggests/concludes that the optimal strength to height-weight / power to speed & cardio... ratios met in a dude that happens to be a LHW.

No absolute weight is mentioned. And, as you already know, one cannot "scale" up & down a human body to fit other weight classes.

The interesting stuff is:
1. He would be almost a carbon copy of Jiri.
but not only would he not fight like Jiri: he would not be "him". I mean, beyond anatomy/anthropometry/biomechanics there's a lot of major factors: reflexes, cognition for on the fly decision making, genetic lottery (bone density, coordination, protein synthesis, recovery, hormonal environment...), ability to perform under pressure...

2. He would walk around and train all year round at 96 kg, cutting just slightly above 3% to make weight.

Now:

1. For lower weight classes, the detrimental effects of weight/water cutting apply. Does it mean that sports science/physiology would advise lighter fighters to cut just a 3%? Not necessarily, probably size discrepancy has a more significant effect on performance at lower weights.

2. For a HW, if you apply the same height to weight ratio Tom* would fight @ 100 kilos. Sports/performance science would recommend him to lose aprox 40lbs? Most likely not.
*Tom has a very low ape index. His wingspan is only 198cm. If he had the same ape index of Jiri, it would be 208.