(Now backed by science) Anatomy of the ideal fighter -and a very interesting surprise-

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Rubios said:
I'm not saying that you are not correct. I couldn't even if I wanted to. There's a high degree of THEORETICAL scientific consensus, but the empirical evidence says that JJ is the best MMA fighter we've known so far.
*And, in fact, he is close to optimal anatomy/body composition.

It's like saying that, as Maradona or Messi were the best football players ever, they have the perfect physique for the game.
Correlation doesn't imply causality and all that.
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Back when Usain Bolt was in his prime there was a lot of discussion about the ideal sprinting physique.

Most agreed that it's Bolt due to his height and physical advantages and yet 99% of sprinters are significantly shorter.

It always comes down to finding a big man with the talent to match. That's when all the physical advantages shine through.
 
Siver! said:
Jiri was the first person to spring to mind before OP actually mentioned him, but I guess Jon Jones was a way more orthodox fighter with a more orthodox base.

LHW Jon Jones is probably the archetype. The fact he achieved what he achieved despite being a Mcgregor-esque fuck up is monumental. Give a sensible human that physique and skill set and they're probably 40-1 by now ignoring all the retarded suspensions and issues with the law. They might never have got DQ'ed if they were a dirtbag, either.
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I wouldn’t argue against this. In fact, I would argue that a hypothetical Jon who wasn’t an addict and a fuck up would be even more potent, even without steroids. Easily double champ with a dominant HW run.
 
I would add:

Big hands: Long and thick fingers
Thick forearms, which you usually don't have with a long reach, so you need to train it intensively
Short neck
small waist

Massive weight cutting becomes a little less important at 205, than in the lighter weight divisions. But it's still important.


Moreno has a good reach for 125 at 5'7.
He has a 70 reach and shovels for hands.
Holloway is 5'11 and at 69
 
Rubios said:
In fact, JJ would be at the upper end of height (exactly 1.93), BUT his ape index -yes, it's the actual terminology- makes him a bit too lanky: he should have a wingspan of 205 (+12 cm vs height) instead of 215 (+22).

His body type is probably very close to optimal, but the actual data describes a carbon copy of Jiri. And I would never guessed.

The most interesting point (LHW JJ is a perfect example, as well as Jiri) is that this perfect specimen for fighting would compete at LHW with a walk around weight not even 7 lbs above the 205 limit.
He would train (and fight) year-round at aprox. 96 kg.

So massive weight-cutting and rebounding could be just a "game theory" sort of thing that fighters and his teams take for granted.
Even in a perfect weight cut and rehydration, a fighter's CNS is not fully recovered (compromising reflexes, coordination, psychomotricity and cognition. And you need to process lots of info on the fly in a fight) is giving up glycogen (muscle strength endurance and ability to contract), hormonal environment (a worse training camp and testosterone/adrenaline/cortisol... levels in the cage).
And, obviously, chin.

Studies conclude that even giving up 25+ lbs to fight someone like Poatan, i.e. should be the right choice.
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Makes a lot of sense.

That long reach really held Jones back thru his career. <Y2JSmirk>
 
Rubios said:
In fact, JJ would be at the upper end of height (exactly 1.93), BUT his ape index -yes, it's the actual terminology- makes him a bit too lanky: he should have a wingspan of 205 (+12 cm vs height) instead of 215 (+22).

His body type is probably very close to optimal, but the actual data describes a carbon copy of Jiri. And I would never guessed.

The most interesting point (LHW JJ is a perfect example, as well as Jiri) is that this perfect specimen for fighting would compete at LHW with a walk around weight not even 7 lbs above the 205 limit.
He would train (and fight) year-round at aprox. 96 kg.

So massive weight-cutting and rebounding could be just a "game theory" sort of thing that fighters and his teams take for granted.
Even in a perfect weight cut and rehydration, a fighter's CNS is not fully recovered (compromising reflexes, coordination, psychomotricity and cognition. And you need to process lots of info on the fly in a fight) is giving up glycogen (muscle strength endurance and ability to contract), hormonal environment (a worse training camp and testosterone/adrenaline/cortisol... levels in the cage).
And, obviously, chin.

Studies conclude that even giving up 25+ lbs to fight someone like Poatan, i.e. should be the right choice.
Click to expand...
Right but none of the best fighters do this.. so where’s that data coming from?
 
Jiri is a very good example of someone who can get away with cutting less, due to being very strong, long, and having enough reach, that makes him big enough without the extra weight.

O'Malley and Sandhagen would quite obviously get mauled at FW (Merab even mauled O'Malley at BW) if they tried a similar strategy.
 
BroScienceTalkatWork said:
A lot of them are 10-25 years old and MMA is a young sport. Weight cutting has evolved

All the champs are heavy weight cutters. Most historically have been.
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What you say is plausible, to say the least.

Some of them are very recent, though. The one from the UFC Performance Institute is from 2021.
And the National Strength and Conditioning Association publishes a report from their yearly MMA conferences.

That said, 10 years for highly referenced and sourced scientific papers is considered very current (is this proper English?)
MMA is very young, but weight cutting and rehydration (boxing) is not, so it should be valid nowadays IMHO.

P.S. The "data" (it's not, is speculation inferred from data) pictures a LHW.
Maybe at lighter weight classes it would recommend a bigger -or much bigger- % water cut.
 
jeff7b9 said:
Makes a lot of sense.

That long reach really held Jones back thru his career. <Y2JSmirk>
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Again: JJ anatomy and body composition seems to be close to optimal.

I'm just saying that there's a certain consensus bw people who know more than you and me about it, and the fighter I found matches the blueprint the most is Jiri (almost a carbon copy).
A so slightly more muscular Adesanya would be closer to it, too.

Do you think Jordan had the absolute perfect body for playing ball?
Or, much more obvious, Messi has the most suited physique for football?

Being the best doesn't mean being the most physically gifted.
 
Rubios said:
What you say is plausible, to say the least.

Some of them are very recent, though. The one from the UFC Performance Institute is from 2021.
And the National Strength and Conditioning Association publishes a report from their yearly MMA conferences.

That said, 10 years for highly referenced and sourced scientific papers is considered very current (is this proper English?)
MMA is very young, but weight cutting and rehydration (boxing) is not, so it should be valid nowadays IMHO.

P.S. The "data" (it's not, is speculation inferred from data) pictures a LHW.
Maybe at lighter weight classes it would recommend a bigger -or much bigger- % water cut.
Click to expand...
Well I’m just saying there’s only one class fighter who stays within 7 pounds and he’s probably never going to get another title

LHW and MW is the class for tall rangy guys who aren’t brittle.

Featherweight - Welterweight best fighters historically are average (mostly) and short for their divisions. At least as far as champs go.

Overall winning percentage would maybe tell a different story. Who’s to say
 
Rubios said:
Again: JJ anatomy and body composition seems to be close to optimal.

I'm just saying that there's a certain consensus bw people who know more than you and me about it, and the fighter I found matches the blueprint the most is Jiri (almost a carbon copy).
A so slightly more muscular Adesanya would be closer to it, too.

Do you think Jordan had the absolute perfect body for playing ball?
Or, much more obvious, Messi has the most suited physique for football?

Being the best doesn't mean being the most physically gifted.
Click to expand...

I don't know where you are, so it would be inconvenient to try to arrange to meet you and shove your nerdy no sense of humor having ass into a locker.

As such...

Screenshot_20250802_190834_Google.jpg
 
jeff7b9 said:
I don't know where you are, so it would be inconvenient to try to arrange to meet you and shove your nerdy no sense of humor having ass into a locker.

As such...

View attachment 1106765
Click to expand...

I'm very far from you, I'm afraid. I'm a nerd, yes, but I have a sense of humor.
Sometimes it's tricky to get it in your 3rd language. My bad.
 
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