Nog vs Sergei 18 years ago

[MartinGibson86]

IF we are goign to pick arbitrary data points like you did above....Blaydes looked medicore vs Mark Hunt in....2018 lol. Think about that for a second.

It's easy to brutalize people when you fight mostly fossils or total nobodies, which is a summation of Blayde's career.
Had he been fighting in a time when the division actually produced good talent in their late 20s, he would do performing very poorly indeed. Or at the very least, poorer than he has today.

Justin Willis went to a decision with Blaydes. What, does his extra 40 pounds of fat make up for his absolutely white belt grappling skills?

Big fighters existed before. This isn't anything new. The difference is the age and ability of the division to replace established talent with sufficient depth, something it has clearly and consistently struggled with for the last decade and a half.

Lol you and your "Derr in their 20's..."


Figgys 34 ffs.


Coleman lost to Pete Williams...but yea hes beating Blaydes lol


Blaydes dominated Hunt. Fedor got sidemounted...twice...by Hunt.


Really think about THAT lol

 

[Jewish Lightning]

Lol you and your "Derr in their 20's..."


Figgys 34 ffs.


Coleman lost to Pete Williams...but yea hes beating Blaydes lol


Blaydes dominated Hunt. Fedor got sidemounted...twice...by Hunt.


Really think about THAT lol

Blades nearly got knocked dead by 50 year old Hunt.

 

[Ace70 V2]

Looking at him today you almost can't believe it's the same guy from the video above.

Maybe his fatter older brother. I'm always amazed how some of these guys get older and seem to stop caring about their shape. They still go fight and make money, but damn the extra fat.

 

[Jewish Lightning]

Maybe his fatter older brother. I'm always amazed how some of these guys get older and seem to stop caring about their shape. They still go fight and make money, but damn the extra fat.

I think injuries prevent them from training as hard as they once did. When they trained hard it was justifiable to eat a lot and eat whatever they wanted. Now they don't train nearly as hard but their diet hasn't changed and so they blow up.

Rampage, Sylvia, Igor Vov, Sergei etc

 

[arrmike]

i remember this fight. at the time, serg and nog were both undefeated in Pride if i'm correct. Nog's bjj, boxing, durability and movement was pretty damn good back then. Sergei was brutal having good boxing, sambo and gnp. definitely one of my fav fights from the old days.

It’s a great fight but Nog has already lost to Fedor. Had to reach the tournament finals to get the rematch which of course needed in the headbutt no contest.

 

[arrmike]

The revisionists say Nog was slow, unathletic, had bad takedowns, and always took a beating before pulling out a miracle sub. This fight disproves all of that. Certainly one of his top performances.

Coleman and the second Barnett fights possibly better performances, but this is right up there.

 

[Jewish Lightning]

The revisionists say Nog was slow, unathletic, had bad takedowns, and always took a beating before pulling out a miracle sub. This fight disproves all of that. Certainly one of his top performances.

Coleman and the second Barnett fights possibly better performances, but this is right up there.

No cap!

 

[Iroh]

Right?
It's a bit of joke what people expect from heavyweight, considering all things.
Pride paid better (afaik) and allowed PEDs... thus enabling (naturally) much smaller men to compete at heavyweight, increasing the talentpool to a vast extent.
The UFC doesn't pay well and there's USADA... hardly surprising that there aren't many guys like Gane and Ngannou.
But also, nostalgia clouds the judgement of some people a bit. Guys like Big Nogl and Wanderlei had bangers of fights, but if you look at some aspects of their game from a technical standpoint, they were quite rudimentary too. (Which is only natural; MMA was young af back then...)

Agreed, though HWs in the UFC are the best paid of all the divisions in the UFC. Not sure how they were paid on average in Pride. At least they didn't have a reebok/venum deal, so there's that. Though arguably Pride did a better job promoting their fighters, but with a smaller roster, that's also easier. I know at the end of K-1 a lot of fighters never got paid. But since UFC bought Pride, I think they'd also have bought any debt. Like they wanted to buy out Hunt, but he wanted to fight for it instead. I do think there is a lot of it is nostalgia. Like I think people would be surprised how well Lewis for example would have done. Dude really doesn't get enough respect. Not to mention other guys in the top 10. Especially if some of them chose to sauce it up.

 

[Jewish Lightning]

Agreed, though HWs in the UFC are the best paid of all the divisions in the UFC. Not sure how they were paid on average in Pride. At least they didn't have a reebok/venum deal, so there's that. Though arguably Pride did a better job promoting their fighters, but with a smaller roster, that's also easier. I know at the end of K-1 a lot of fighters never got paid. But since UFC bought Pride, I think they'd also have bought any debt. Like they wanted to buy out Hunt, but he wanted to fight for it instead. I do think there is a lot of it is nostalgia. Like I think people would be surprised how well Lewis for example would have done. Dude really doesn't get enough respect. Not to mention other guys in the top 10. Especially if some of them chose to sauce it up.

Pride guys were paid very well. The Japanese combat sports scene had a lot of money in it at the time and arenas were packed with 60,000 fans. K-1 fighters were millionaires. Rey Sefo wasn't even elite in K-1 but was driving Bentleys and wearing gold rolexes in the 90s.

Pride was ran by FEG which also ran K-1 so I would imagine pride elites were paid very very well. Pride had Mastercard, Microsoft, and Japanese Bank sponsors on the ring. Wand said that he was given 300k bonuses in cash. Yoshida was paid millions just to wear tiny logos of his sponsors on his gi. Fedor and Mirko had the same manager who disclosed that they were making 300k a fight in 2003 and that was without sponsors. I can't imagine how much Fedor was making as champ.

Incredible numbers considering this was 20 years ago and Ngannou just made 600k for his last fight and world champion Brandon Moreno who sold out the arena made just 120k. When you consider they can't have sponsors and make a lousy 10-50k from Venum its clear that UFC= U FIGHT CHEAP which is why they havent been able to develop much talent in the LHW and HW divisions.

 

[mjfan23]

@Jewish Lightning
I really struggle to comprehend why UFC apologists/loyalists/shills try (unsuccessfully) to discredit the golden era? UFC is still the most relevant organization today and actually bought all these orgs and talent they are so insecure about. It makes no sense.

especially for the older fans who have had to eat crow over and over. When pride, strikeforce, wec, etc. came over they took all the titles. Making a lot of ufc shills cry. Hell even WWE takes titles with a very high success rate. Brock and punk came over, Brock won the ufc title, giving fake wrasslin a 50% success rate at winning ufc gold lol yet people are out protecting ufc and its honour like it’s their mothers vag.

 

[Jewish Lightning]

@Jewish Lightning
I really struggle to comprehend why UFC apologists/loyalists/shills try (unsuccessfully) to discredit the golden era? UFC is still the most relevant organization today and actually bought all these orgs and talent they are so insecure about. It makes no sense.

especially for the older fans who have had to eat crow over and over. When pride, strikeforce, wec, etc. came over they took all the titles. Making a lot of ufc shills cry. Hell even WWE takes titles with a very high success rate. Brock and punk came over, Brock won the ufc title, giving fake wrasslin a 50% success rate at winning ufc gold lol yet people are out protecting ufc and its honour like it’s their mothers vag.

I've been watching MMA since 1994. I love it all. Went to see Ngannou vs Gane live and went to see Moldavsky vs Bader live last Saturday. I really love this sport.

My guess is that the UFC created an atmosphere where its fans are bigger fans of the UFC than they are of the actual sport. The face of the organization Dana White has single handedly created a toxic culture of radicalized fans who idolize and mirror him which makes them discredit and disrespect any history that wasn't written under the UFC banner.

It feels like these "fans" are stuck in the organization vs organization mentality that was prevalent in wrestling during the WWF vs WCW days which was the kind of brainwashing and marketing which worked best on euphoric children. Dana White has used this effective marketing machine to implant the idea in heads of UFC fans that men didnt know how to fight before the UFC and the accomplishments of any fighter outside of the UFC are to be dismissed and disrespected.

There isn't another sport where modern day fans constantly disrespect and discredit the legends of the past. Basketball fans of today don't shit on Michael Jordan. Boxing fans of today don't shit on Sugar Ray Leonard. Instead these legends are celebrated. Only toxic ass UFC fans do the opposite and it's honestly embarrassing and takes away from purity of this great sport.

When a baseball fan is asked what he's watching tonight he doesn't say, "I'm watching MLB." He says, "I'm watching baseball." UFC fans say they're watching UFC instead of saying they're watching MMA.

That's why they can't even objectively look at the fights and assess the fighters' skills, techniques and abilities. They will tell you that Derrick Lewis is a better fighter than Nogueira based on this model. Reminds me of people who see it as a personal victory to exclusively drink Coca Cola as if other sodas are so much worse. It's all soda you morons.

 

[Ace70 V2]

I think injuries prevent them from training as hard as they once did. When they trained hard it was justifiable to eat a lot and eat whatever they wanted. Now they don't train nearly as hard but their diet hasn't changed and so they blow up.

Rampage, Sylvia, Igor Vov, Sergei etc

But on the flip side you have guys like Randy, Tito, Bisping. Look at Rashad as well.

 

[Jewish Lightning]

But on the flip side you have guys like Randy, Tito, Bisping. Look at Rashad as well.

Kudos to them.

 

[Final Say]

The same Blades who was nearly KOd by 50 year old Mark Hunt? The same Blades who just got knocked dead by the one dimensional Derrick Lewis? The same Blades who could hardly out grapple Volkov and was sucking wind so hard after 15 minutes of grappling him that he nearly died and couldn't even do a post fight interview? He'd get mopped by the majority of the top of that list just like Lewis would, especially in 10 minute first round setting. Say you're a UFC fan boy who wasnt watching the sport then so you have a recency bias without saying you're a UFC fan boy who wasnt watching the sport then so you have recency bias lol

Ten minute round isn’t real. And derick Lewis would also beat a lot of them, especially the ones who don’t have a takedown threat

 

[Jewish Lightning]

Ten minute round isn’t real. And derick Lewis would also beat a lot of them, especially the ones who don’t have a takedown threat

The 10 minute first round was very real and separated the men from the boys. The massive amount of fights that were finished around the 7-8 minute mark in Pride was a testament to how real the 10 min round was. Oleinik would have submitted Lewis if he had a 10 min round to worl his game.

Lewis got taken down by 86 year old Oleinik, 5'8 Latiffi, and judo thrown to the moon by Blagoi Ivanov who nearly died from being stabbed in the heart with a sword 10 years ago and survived after 6 months in a coma. The guys in Pride who were takedown specialists would have put him on his back just like guys I mentioned above. He would have a decent chance of beating guys like Herring who would do the wild dance with him but the specialists would apply their craft on him. He would probably be a fringe top 10 - top 15 guy in 2005 at best.

 

[Iron Nick]

Prime Big Nog was more skilled, more technical and more well rounded than 90% of the HWs in the UFC today. Watching Big Nog in those days and observing he was on a higher level than guys like Lewis, Tuivasa, Volkov, Tybura, Sakai and Arlovski of today has nothing to do with nostalgia, it's pure observation. It's like watching a BMW M5 driving next to a Ford F 150.

Same can be said about Wand who in those days was far superior than guys like Anthony Smith, Jan Blachowizcse, and 60 year old Glover. It's not nostalgia it's just observation.

For whatever reasons UFC talent is extremely poor at HW and LHW which is why you have highly ranked journeymen and one dimensional brawlers like Derrick Lewis as top 3 title contenders.

Also you speak of USADA as if UFC fighters today aren't using steroids. Jones was caught by USADA twice. Adesanya has man boob which he claims he got from smoking weed but we all know that's cap. Paulo Costa looks as juicy as a prime Mark Coleman and so fourth. Accusing pride guys of juicing while pretending the UFC guys are clean seems biased to me.

I disagree partially.
I don't think Wanderlei Silva is a better striker than Jan Blachowicz.

As for the PED thing, even if they're rampant in the UFC, the UFC fighters aren't close to the same amount of juiced as (many) PRIDE fighters were.

That said, it wasn't my intention to diss the PRIDE fighters for this, i was just saying that a huge part of why the big guys in PRIDE were comparatively good, was because since steroids were pretty much encouraged, they had a much larger talentpool.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Pride guys were paid very well. The Japanese combat sports scene had a lot of money in it at the time and arenas were packed 60,000 fans. K-1 fighters were millionaires. Rey Sefo wasn't even elite in K-1 but was driving Bentleys and wearing gold rolexes in the 90s.

Pride was ran by FEG which also ran K-1 so I would imagine pride elites were paid very very well. Pride had Mastercard, Microsoft, and Japanese Bank sponsors on the ring. Wand said that he was given 300k bonuses in cash. Yoshida was paid millions just to wear tiny logos of his sponsors on his gi. Fedor and Mirko had the same manager who disclosed that they were make 300k a fight in 2003 and that was without sponsors. I can't imagine how much Fedor was making as champ.

Incredible numbers considering this waa 20 years ago and Ngannou just made 600k for his last fight and world champion Brandon Moreno who sold out the arena made just 120k. When you consider they can't have sponsors and make a lousy 10-50k from Venum its clear that UFC= U FIGHT CHEAP which is why they have been unable to develop much talent in the LHW and HW divisions.

Its hard to really pin down how much they were earning though because a lot of income came from the degree of exposure involved, fighters were making a lot of money doing adverts/sponsorship.

I suspect though the key issue wasnt so much what the top guys were earning though it was how much was being paid to attract newer fighters and when it was being offered. I think you see back in that era a lot more fighters end up in big orgs like Pride, RINGS, FEG or even the UFC much earlier in their careers and there was much more of a feeling that the orgs were going out looking to sign up talent. The UFC post Pride though I would say have tended to have much more of a "let them come to us" mentality were fighters need to proove themlseves in minor orgs to get signed.

 

[markg171]

There is nothing more delusional than a Pride nostalgia thread.

 

[Jewish Lightning]

I disagree partially.
I don't think Wanderlei Silva is a better striker than Jan Blachowicz.

As for the PED thing, even if they're rampant in the UFC, the UFC fighters aren't close to the same amount of juiced as (many) PRIDE fighters were.

That said, it wasn't my intention to diss the PRIDE fighters for this, i was just saying that a huge part of why the big guys in PRIDE were comparatively good, was because since steroids were pretty much encouraged, they had a much larger talentpool.

Wanderlei Silva wasn't a better boxer than Jan but his overall striking game was more advanced when you factor in the Thai Clinch and his intensity. I don't think Jan of today would have had much for a 2003 Mirko in the stand up. I don't think Jan of today would have had much for a 2004 Hunt in the stand up either and I definitely don't think Jan of today would be able to do to Rampage what Wand did to him. This isn't to take away from Jan's accomplishments but prime Wand was better than him IMO.

 

[Jewish Lightning]

There is nothing more delusional than a Pride nostalgia thread.

Thanks for your baseless contribution. UFC fanboy shill.