International No, the Nazis were not 'liberal' or 'left wing', and in 2021 this shouldn't have to be repeated.

Mila is My World said:
Yes, I'm comparing two extremely authoritarian political parties with names that attempt to describe their political positions.

Now why do you trust the nazi party that they are socialist but not the DPRK that they are democratic.

Give me some actual reasons, don't just act smug and dismissive.
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N Korea literally made up a name to appease the morons that live there, Germany was nothing like N Korea
 
AWilder said:
RE: nazi social programs:

So i happened to be listening to a podcast on Alfred Krupp and help hammer home the point that the Nazi social programs are an extension of right-wing thinking and not originating from left-wing/marxism/whatever. Alfred Krupp was a far right capitalist who virtually invented Germany's whole steel industry. He was severely paranoid, hated communism, hated socialists, hated unions and (like most right-wing nuts) loved the smell of horse shit. He so hated left-wing policies and thinking that he nearly blew up his own steelworks with dynamite when the socialists had a minor political victory. Anyways, Germany's social safety network that exists today, and many parts of which were copied nearly word for word by the nazis, originates with this dude. To make it as simple as possible, Krupp developed his "General Regulations" for his employees. This laid out a long list of rules for company men to follow as well as the benefits they would receive. To combat unionization Krupp believed that providing benefits to his employees, such as healthcare and a pension, gave him leverage over their politics because he could take everything away from them if he wanted to punish them for leaning left politically (hmmm, not right?). Some of the rules for the employees: 12 hour work day, time cards, alcohol forbidden during work, unions banned, socialist newspapers/paraphernal banned (inside and outside work). Some of the "benefits" employees were given: healthcare (at Krupp owned hospitals), child education (at krupp owned schools), housing (at krupp owned housing), compulsory retirement fund (controlled by krupp). So you can see how Krupp was using this system as a tool to control his workers. This method of control was also extended by the Nazis. For example, Jewish people didn't get benefits from these social programs. Quite the opposite.

I can see why some of the brain-damaged right-wingers among us believe these to be socialist policies, but when you look at their origins and the motivations behind them...

A funny anecdote about Krupp and his hatred of socialists is he was one of the first industrialist/capitalists to spy on his employees looking for unionization and socialist activity. He hired inspectors to go through everything from trash to used toilet paper to look for clues. He ended up firing a nigh watchman with decades of time with the company because the watchmen's sandwich was wrapped using a socialist newspaper.
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Great post.

Hitler’s autocratic policies being associated with conservative politics and the decline of Marxism because of the dawn of the Cold War created the environment that fostered social democratic policies across most of Europe.

Most people didn’t take the free marketeers seriously when they claimed that the welfare state is the gateway to dictatorship. Fear makes people believe strange things.
 
Jim Eagle said:
N Korea literally made up a name to appease the morons that live there, Germany was nothing like N Korea
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And the national social german workers party already existed before hitler took it over. They largely kept the name so they could say they were 'for the people' and to appease the actual socialist elements in the party like the Strasser brothers. But of course, Hitler despised the left, hated communism, and as soon as he could get away with it, he murdered the Strassers, the SA and all the other 'lower and undesirable' elements of the party in one swoop. The name just stuck, but Hitler consciously emulating fascist Italy. This is all in his writing.

So in short Steven Crowder was wrong, Nazi Germany and Hitler were not 'liberal socialists'. Steven Crowder isn't a fucking historian he's a failed comedian and a youtuber, he don't know shit.
 
The Nazis were really fascist, totalitarian socialists similar to what some people want the world being today (minus the racial purity angle.) But racialisation, racial/ethnic hierarchy (victimhood) and different rights for different ethnicities is unfortunately part of the modern agenda. Also :
Justifying violence against unwanted thoughts? Check.
Social isolation for expressing different opinions? Check.
Public shaming for saying 'the wrong things'? Check.
Strong arming businesses and private individuals to silence/to comply with the mob? Check.

Let's face it, many of the childish, simply misguided and stupid millennials (and the vast majority of the ridiculous celebrities) think they're basically 'fighting the good fight' with a page taken out from the Nazi playbook. The tactics are the same and the hatred towards the opposition as well.
 
SanchoMF said:
The Nazis were really fascist, totalitarian socialists similar to what some people want the world being today (minus the racial purity angle.) But racialisation, racial/ethnic hierarchy (victimhood) and different rights for different ethnicities is unfortunately part of the modern agenda. Also :
Justifying violence against unwanted thoughts? Check.
Social isolation for expressing different opinions? Check.
Public shaming for saying 'the wrong things'? Check.
Strong arming businesses and private individuals to silence/to comply with the mob? Check.

Let's face it, many of the childish, simply misguided and stupid millennials (and the vast majority of the ridiculous celebrities) think they're basically 'fighting the good fight' with a page taken out from the Nazi playbook. The tactics are the same and the hatred towards the opposition as well.
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Your list could easily be applied to 1950's America.

A country not even a decade away from race based concentration camps on its home soil.

"The Left are the real Nazis" is a "fetch" that alt-right trolls have been trying to make happen for the last ten years. Looks like you bought it Gretchen.

Nobody with even a passing familiarity with the NSDAP of the 1930's and 1940's would describe them as left wing.
 
Crom Cruach said:
Your list could easily be applied to 1950's America.

A country not even a decade away from race based concentration camps on its home soil.

"The Left are the real Nazis" is a "fetch" that alt-right trolls have been trying to make happen for the last ten years. Looks like you bought it Gretchen.

Nobody with even a passing familiarity with the NSDAP of the 1930's and 1940's would describe them as left wing.
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Probably true about McCarthyism, so what?
That doesn’t negate the fact that the spineless losers today idolize totalitarian measures, a la Nazi Germany and this talk of race-based rankings, “own spaces” etc is just another sign of how utterly stupid these people are.
You would think that people would learn something from fascist mesures, but no :
“Once my guys are the ones giving it instead of taking it, it’s all good”.

The Nazis were exactly the same as their CCCP counterparts, who you’d classify as lefties.
Both had cool moustache guy in front of a red flag and the politics (in real life, nobody with half a brain listens to propaganda) were identical down to the methods. National Socialist German Workers' Party is pretty lefty.

The moronic kids today idolize the commies because they have a cool, revolutionary image but are just as bad as the Nazis.
It’s fine if you have a soft spot for it, just be open about it dude.
 
SanchoMF said:
Probably true about McCarthyism, so what?
That doesn’t negate the fact that the spineless losers today idolize totalitarian measures, a la Nazi Germany and this talk of race-based rankings, “own spaces” etc is just another sign of how utterly stupid these people are.
You would think that people would learn something from fascist mesures, but no :
“Once my guys are the ones giving it instead of taking it, it’s all good”.

The Nazis were exactly the same as their CCCP counterparts, who you’d classify as lefties.
Both had cool moustache guy in front of a red flag and the politics (in real life, nobody with half a brain listens to propaganda) were identical down to the methods. National Socialist German Workers' Party is pretty lefty.

The moronic kids today idolize the commies because they have a cool, revolutionary image but are just as bad as the Nazis.
It’s fine if you have a soft spot for it, just be open about it dude.
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Wow, you really are all over the shop on this one. Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia and 21st Century American woke culture are three very different things.

You throw out a canard about falling for propoganda and then go straight back to trotting out talking points you learned from propoganda.

So, you have picked a side in the American culture wars, good for you, but simply repeating yourself doesn't make you right.

Any conflation of Nazi ideology with "Left, wing" is simply absurd either in the context of the politics of the time or modern politics. Some of us speculate about why this idiotic shit is a thing these days. I think in the latest culture war "Nazi" is just shorthand for "Evil" for unsophisticated people who want to insult the other side.

There is also, in my opinion an internet based disinformation campaign to paint the German Nazis as left because the American Right doesn't like the bad press.

IMO your postings just prove my argument right.
 
PS
There are plenty of shit-heel totalitarian Left examples you could smear your opponents with comparisons to.

But you don't. Why?
 
Crom Cruach said:
Wow, you really are all over the shop on this one. Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia and 21st Century American woke culture are three very different things.

You throw out a canard about falling for propoganda and then go straight back to trotting out talking points you learned from propoganda.

So, you have picked a side in the American culture wars, good for you, but simply repeating yourself doesn't make you right.

Any conflation of Nazi ideology with "Left, wing" is simply absurd either in the context of the politics of the time or modern politics. Some of us speculate about why this idiotic shit is a thing these days. I think in the latest culture war "Nazi" is just shorthand for "Evil" for unsophisticated people who want to insult the other side.

There is also, in my opinion an internet based disinformation campaign to paint the German Nazis as left because the American Right doesn't like the bad press.

IMO your postings just prove my argument right.
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The examples of how to play the underclasses are all the same, it doesn't matter if they're Stalinist Russia, The Nazis or the "Woke left" of today : you want power, you play the cards and say the words that are needed.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that this is somehow exclusive (today's morbid left and the Naziboys of yesteryear)

But overall, the National Socialist German Workers’ Party (initially DAP, then NSDAP) was still the name of the Nazi party and the establishment of this party was indeed pro-labour, pro-working class, so yes they were indeed "lefties".
How one man (Hitler after gaining power) started to steer the party towards a national takeover is another topic, since in order to achieve power you need to secure the masses (in this case use the populist rhetoric to please the working class and the lower classes) and make enough friends in the upper echelons of the society (business owners and the elites) and turn the national-socialist aspects to 11 (which itself is very exclusive socialism of certain kind) to unify both ends under the same goal.
-> Shortly after other political parties were indeed forbidden so there was only one choice anyway ; to be a nationalist and a socialist.
So the combination of populist rhetoric and big business dealings aren't new or original and at least to me are very similar to what's being played today's America : riling up the crowds, getting the businesses to play along and portray everything as a struggle towards the evil opposition.

Maybe my problem was indeed that I wasn't bringing up the two-faced aspect of NSDAP-method in comparison to today's Dems for example : not the propaganda (rhetoric, grandstanding and buying votes are just optics) but the totalitarian aspects and ramifications of methods to gain more control and power over the opposition.
Would fascism be a better word than Nazism? Maybe it would be, but it doesn't pack the same punch.

Today's left aren't Nazies per se, but strip down all the jargon and you see that the power-hungry always want a top-down dictated systems with control over things that are deemed dangerous and opposite of the official mantra.
The left (in practice I highlight) aren't about freedom, on the contrary ; it's a matter of control and submission to rules made and voted in by the party heads.

So no thanks man, I'm happier without fascism.
 
Poser Caust said:
Yeah they were. The leftists of today are going down the same path but because the racial element is reversed they get to walk the moral high ground while doing alot if the same shit.
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vilifying an entire group of people is vilifying and entire group of people.
 
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