International No, the Nazis were not 'liberal' or 'left wing', and in 2021 this shouldn't have to be repeated.

[CubicleGangster]

the reality is gonna be totally different once you take your pills...

You're flailing and sadly need the win so I'll let you have the last word.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

I see your point. The skysolos of the world would not call them right wing terrorists. Cuz they aren’t lol. They are socialist freedom fighters.

Exactly.

 

[hillelslovak87]

I don't think it would be right to call the Nazis "left-wing". They never marketed themselves as a left-wing movement, but rather, a "third option" that could not be clearly defined as belonging to either the left or the right (as these concepts were understood by 1930s era standards). It was a mixed bag of ideas that, early on, followed a more logical narrative (as the people contributing to the ideology, like Strasser, had not all yet been purged), but by the end basically became the sum of Hitler's reactionary ideas and responses to the world surrounding him. Including some very off-the-wall ideas that would be seen as radically progressive even by today's standards (such as the banning of meat, which was in his plans).

The left and right divide by that time, in Germany, anyway, was very different from the left and right divide today. The right were basically monarchists, and to a degree held even theocratic views. The Nazi movement railed against a lot of the conservative principles of that era, even if it generally tried to pander to conservative sentiments (just like it pandered to the left economically). What people tend to forget is that the scientific racism that the Nazis espoused was actually seen as "progressive" by that era's standards, as many conservatives had not yet acknowledged the validity of Darwin's evolutionary theory (and today, some still don't), and were generally very skeptical of science.

These ideas came as an influence from Californian progressive circles, rather than some reactionary right-wing/conservative groups (who were way backwards compared to what we can even envision today).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_eugenics#Origins_in_the_U.S._eugenics_movement

But is the proof not in the pudding when you've purged all the leftists along with blaming all your nation's ills on Jews, minorities, the media, and more than all, the left?

I would also say the prominence of the Catholic Church probably led the populace of Germany, Austria and many other nations in the region find readymade reasons to solve the Jewish problem via extermination while the leftists wanted them back in Israel or wherever, just out of Germany (such an awesome and not at all immoral solution).

Seems mighty hard to call them at all leftist after it's borne out who they fought against and destroyed.

 

[James Bomb]

...can YOU read it? it clearly states that it's socialism, just not marxist.

No, you dolt, it says that it was an attempt to rebrand socialism. Emphasis on the “attempt” and “rebrand” part.

which, btw, is what i had already pasted (twice) from mises.

Lol, talk about clown show sources. There’s the brain rot I was talking about.

all this ad-hom and you can't even comprehend your own citations.

Lol, words, what do they even mean? I can’t believe that you think this is a winning argument. Fucking buffoon.

 

[rob mafia]

No, you dolt, it says that it was an attempt to rebrand socialism. Emphasis on the “attempt” and “rebrand” part.


Lol, talk about clown show sources. There’s the brain rot I was talking about.


Lol, words, what do they even mean? I can’t believe that you think this is a winning argument. Fucking buffoon.

lolz @ calling an actual economist of the time "right wing brain rot." and "clown show." his pupil got a nobel prize for their work, but what the fuck do they know, amirite? obviously, captain ad-hom the contradiction master knows more!

lolz @ going on insult tirades when you can't even figure out how to use the tags. (which i fixed for this post)

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

everyone knows nazies where socialists.

 

[grimballer]

Please try to stay on topic.

Why eliminate the left if the character of your movement is left wing while empowering the most hardline conservative extremists in your nation?

Why blame all ills of your nation on immigrants, minorities, leftists and the media?

k... im gonna pretend im speaking to another person...

you agree that hilter was a socialist and nazi are national socialists, right?

why weren't they nationalist conservatives or nationalist monarchist?

hitler and nazis were anti communist as much as anti bourgeoisie/capitalist.

later they aligned themselves with conservatives cause communist were perceived as bigger threat at home. the same way allies also included soviet union. it doesn't mean that usa, france and uk were communist. it just means nazis were a bigger threat at that time.

nazis also wanted to radically change german society where german ppl get all the social benefits.

you eliminate the nationalist aspect of nazis and its textbook socialism and left wing policies.

 

[TheGreatA]

But is the proof not in the pudding when you've purged all the leftists along with blaming all your nation's ills on Jews, minorities, the media, and more than all, the left?

I would also say the prominence of the Catholic Church probably led the populace of Germany, Austria and many other nations in the region find readymade reasons to solve the Jewish problem via extermination while the leftists wanted them back in Israel or wherever, just out of Germany (such an awesome and not at all immoral solution).

Seems mighty hard to call them at all leftist after it's borne out who they fought against and destroyed.

The Nazis also wanted the Jews in Israel, and at one point, Madagascar. But this plan became unfeasible during the event of war, particularly as the war started turning against them, and especially as a loss seemed inevitable.

With the failure to defeat the Royal Air Force in the Battle of Britain, the proposed invasion of the UK was postponed indefinitely on 17 September 1940. This meant the British merchant fleet would not be at Germany's disposal for use in evacuations, and planning for the Madagascar proposal stalled.[30] In late August 1940, Rademacher entreated Ribbentrop to hold a meeting at his ministry to begin drawing up a panel of experts to consolidate the plan. Ribbentrop never responded. Likewise, Eichmann's memorandum languished with Heydrich, who never approved it.[30] Establishment of ghettos in Warsaw and other cities in Poland resumed in August 1940.[34] The plan was officially shelved within the Foreign Office in February 1942.[35] British forces took the island from Vichy France in the Battle of Madagascar in November 1942 and control was transferred to the Free French.

Once planning for Operation Barbarossa commenced, Hitler asked Himmler to draft a new plan for the elimination of the Jews of Europe, and Himmler passed along the task to Heydrich. His draft proposed the deportation of the Jews to the Soviet Union via Poland.[36] The later Generalplan Ost (General Plan for the East), prepared by Professor Konrad Meyer and others, called for deporting the entire population of occupied Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union to Siberia, either for use as slave labour or to be murdered after the Soviet defeat. The plan hinged on the rapid defeat of the Soviet forces. [37] Once it became apparent that the war against the Soviet Union would drag on much longer than expected, Heydrich revised his plans to concentrate on the Jewish population then under Nazi control. Since transporting masses of people into a combat zone would be impossible, Heydrich decided that the Jews would be killed in extermination camps set up in occupied areas of Poland.[38] The total number of Jews murdered during the resulting Holocaust is estimated at 5.5 to 6 million people.[39]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan#Plan_abandoned

Anti-Semitism can't really be regarded as just a right-wing trait, even Marx (who was Jewish, though he did not identify as such) had some very harsh to say regarding Jews and how they should be treated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jewish_Question#Interpretations

Of course, we know that Stalin in his paranoia purged a great number of Jews, and also cynically utilized anti-Semitic propaganda at times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors'_plot

 

[hillelslovak87]

k... im gonna pretend im speaking to another person...

you agree that hilter was a socialist and nazi are national socialists, right?

why weren't they nationalist conservatives or nationalist monarchist?

hitler and nazis were anti communist as much as anti bourgeoisie/capitalist.

later they aligned themselves with conservatives cause communist were perceived as bigger threat at home. the same way allies also included soviet union. it doesn't mean that usa, france and uk were communist. it just means nazis were a bigger threat at that time.

nazis also wanted to radically change german society where german ppl get all the social benefits.

you eliminate the nationalist aspect of nazis and its textbook socialism and left wing policies.

You do realize saying you're a socialist doesn't mean much when your ideology and actions don't conform to it's stricture, right?

Again, why did the nazis eliminate the left, and why did they blame the nation's ills on the left, immigrants, minorities and the media if they were left wing?

In a nation where the liberal view of the Jewish problem was ethnic cleansing via the Jews being deported and the conservative view was typically extermination minded, why did Hitler and the Nazis take the most extreme actions towards the Jews and minorities, propping up the most hardline conservative freaks they possibly could?

"nazis also wanted to radically change german society where german ppl get all the social benefits."

Your ignorance, paired with confidence, is saddening, as if communists are the only despotic group that can attain leadership within a nation and go about enriching their inner circle. I mean, damn, man.

I wonder if you were this ignorant before stop the steal busted your mind further........

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

so now that have thoroughly proven that nazies are equivalent to modern socialists, can we agree that modern socialists should be hunted to the corners of the earth and imprisoned for the duration of their natural life?

 

[grimballer]

You're flailing and sadly need the win so I'll let you have the last word.

 

[Falsedawn]

Personally I love Napoleon. You (and Marx appearently) don't like him because he squashed a bunch of proto-socialists in order to consolidate their revolutionary principles. Before he came along it was a fucking mess.

Either way you can't answer the question because you have no idea how. He was a self titled emperor that instilled constitutional liberalism every where he went. He liberated people from other oppressive monarchists and gave them equal rights.

The man literally melts your brain and you know it. When you are ready to man up and answer the question I'll be ready.

What about "Hereditary monarch" is hard for you to understand? Napoleon was an autocrat. That's why he's right wing. Yet again, literally a monarch. To this day the House of Bonaparte claims the Imperial title of France lmfao.

The left-right spectrum is about concentration of power, stupid. To the right is Monarchy, supreme rule by one person. To the left is Anarchy, a stateless, moneyless, and classless society (see: decentralized power).

That you seem to have a hard time with that in your derptonic brain isn't my fault. Also I love how we just whitewash the 3.5 million deaths in the Napoleonic Wars like it's just a quick speed bump. Yeah everything is great if you ignore all the bad stuff lmao.

 

[TheGreatA]

The Nazis also wanted the Jews in Israel, and at one point, Madagascar. But this plan became unfeasible during the event of war, particularly as the war started turning against them, and especially as a loss seemed inevitable.

With the failure to defeat the Royal Air Force in the Battle of Britain, the proposed invasion of the UK was postponed indefinitely on 17 September 1940. This meant the British merchant fleet would not be at Germany's disposal for use in evacuations, and planning for the Madagascar proposal stalled.[30] In late August 1940, Rademacher entreated Ribbentrop to hold a meeting at his ministry to begin drawing up a panel of experts to consolidate the plan. Ribbentrop never responded. Likewise, Eichmann's memorandum languished with Heydrich, who never approved it.[30] Establishment of ghettos in Warsaw and other cities in Poland resumed in August 1940.[34] The plan was officially shelved within the Foreign Office in February 1942.[35] British forces took the island from Vichy France in the Battle of Madagascar in November 1942 and control was transferred to the Free French.

Once planning for Operation Barbarossa commenced, Hitler asked Himmler to draft a new plan for the elimination of the Jews of Europe, and Himmler passed along the task to Heydrich. His draft proposed the deportation of the Jews to the Soviet Union via Poland.[36] The later Generalplan Ost (General Plan for the East), prepared by Professor Konrad Meyer and others, called for deporting the entire population of occupied Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union to Siberia, either for use as slave labour or to be murdered after the Soviet defeat. The plan hinged on the rapid defeat of the Soviet forces. [37] Once it became apparent that the war against the Soviet Union would drag on much longer than expected, Heydrich revised his plans to concentrate on the Jewish population then under Nazi control. Since transporting masses of people into a combat zone would be impossible, Heydrich decided that the Jews would be killed in extermination camps set up in occupied areas of Poland.[38] The total number of Jews murdered during the resulting Holocaust is estimated at 5.5 to 6 million people.[39]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan#Plan_abandoned

Anti-Semitism can't really be regarded as just a right-wing trait, even Marx (who was Jewish, though he did not identify as such) had some very harsh to say regarding Jews and how they should be treated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jewish_Question#Interpretations

Of course, we know that Stalin in his paranoia purged a great number of Jews, and also cynically utilized anti-Semitic propaganda at times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors'_plot

The Jewish population of USSR arguably dodged a bullet with Stalin's death (which just highlights how similar Stalin and Hitler were in their psychopathic and paranoid mentality):

There is a view, based on various memoirs and secondary evidence, that the doctors' plot case was intended to trigger mass repressions and deportations of the Jews, similar to deportations of many other ethnic minorities in the Soviet Union, but the plan was not accomplished because of the sudden death of Stalin.[38]

According to Louis Rapoport, the genocide was planned to start with the public execution of the imprisoned doctors, and then the "following incidents would follow": "attacks on Jews orchestrated by the secret police, the publication of the statement by the prominent Jews, and a flood of other letters demanding that action be taken. A three-stage program of genocide would be followed. First, almost all Soviet Jews ... would be shipped to camps east of the Urals ... Second, the authorities would set Jewish leaders at all levels against one another ... Also the MGB [Secret Police] would start killing the elites in the camps, just as they had killed the Yiddish writers ... the previous year. The ... final stage would be to 'get rid of the rest.'"[39]

Four large camps were built in southern and western Siberia shortly before Stalin's death in 1953, and there were rumors that they were for Jews.[40] A special "Deportation Commission" to plan the deportation of Jews to these camps was allegedly created.[41][42][43] Nikolay Poliakov, the secretary of the "Commission", stated years later that, according to Stalin's initial plan, the deportation was to begin in the middle of February 1953, but the monumental tasks of compiling lists of Jews had not yet been completed.[41][43] "Pure blooded" Jews were to be deported first, followed by "half-breeds" (polukrovki).[41] Before his death in March 1953, Stalin allegedly had planned the execution of Doctors' plot defendants already on trial in Red Square in March 1953, and then he would cast himself as the savior of Soviet Jews by sending them to camps away from the purportedly enraged Russian populace.[41][44][45] There are further statements that describe some aspects of such a planned deportation.[43]

Yakov Etinger described how former CPSU Politburo member Nikolai Bulganin said that Stalin asked him in the end of February 1953 to prepare railroad cars for the mass deportation of Jews to Siberia.[46] According to a book by another Soviet Politburo member Alexander Yakovlev,[47][46] Stalin started preparations for the deportation of Jews in February 1953 and ordered preparation of a letter from a group of notable Soviet Jews with a request to the Soviet government to carry out the mass deportation of Jews in order to save them from "the just wrath of Soviet people." The letter had to be published in the newspaper Pravda and was found later.[48] According to historian Samson Madiyevsky, the deportation was definitely considered, and the only thing in question is the time-frame.[49][50][51]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors'_plot#Planned_deportation_of_Jews

 

[grimballer]

You do realize saying you're a socialist doesn't mean much when your ideology and actions don't conform to it's stricture, right?

Again, why did the nazis eliminate the left, and why did they blame the nation's ills on the left, immigrants, minorities and the media if they were left wing?

In a nation where the liberal view of the Jewish problem was ethnic cleansing via the Jews being deported and the conservative view was typically extermination minded, why did Hitler and the Nazis take the most extreme actions towards the Jews and minorities, propping up the most hardline conservative freaks they possibly could?

"nazis also wanted to radically change german society where german ppl get all the social benefits."

Your ignorance, paired with confidence, is saddening, as if communists are the only despotic group that can attain leadership within a nation and go about enriching their inner circle. I mean, damn, man.

I wonder if you were this ignorant before stop the steal busted your mind further........

none of that addresses them being socialist and far left wing...

you do realize ppl were being slaughtered in russia and china?

were they also far right according to you?

was hitler pro monarchy and german aristocracy? he just used them to get to power

 

[James Bomb]

lolz @ calling an actual economist of the time "right wing brain rot." and "clown show." his pupil got a nobel prize for their work, but what the fuck do they know, amirite? obviously, captain ad-hom the contradiction master knows more!

First off, I don’t even think you understand your Nazi apologia, or else you wouldn’t have posted it.

and yes, von Moses is a crackpot. You’re confusing him with Hayek.

lolz @ going on insult tirades when you can't even figure out how to use the tags. (which i fixed for this post)

If you haven’t noticed, the entire reason that you were tagged into this thread is that you’re a notorious forum idiot. That’s not something to be proud of.

 

[hillelslovak87]

none of that addresses them being socialist and far left wing...

you do realize ppl were being slaughtered in russia and china?

were they also far right according to you?

was hitler pro monarchy and german aristocracy? he just used them to get to power

How are they left wing when they got rid of the left leaning people from power and actively recruited hard right extremists for positions of power?

You keep avoiding these simple, simple facts with vague claims you make, like the "nazis also wanted to radically change german society where german ppl get all the social benefits." as if that says anything about left or right wing ideology or practice.

Weird stuff. Decade after decade of people laying out what fascism and it's tenets are, and you guys seem deadset on simply disregarding all of it, despite the facts, like how the nazis were against the leftists from the beginning.

1933 - The nazis attain control of Germany

1925 - Hitler publishes Mein Kampf, detailing in great length his hatred of communism and the left, along with Jews, minorities, the infirmed, amongst others.

How in the fuck are the nazis, led by the ideology of Hitler and other illiberal oddities from Germany and the region left wing, given they fought explicitly against the left while demonizing the media and minorities in tandem with them?

I await the rationalizations about how the Lebensraum was all about reuiniting with their Marxist leftist brothers as they moved East.........

 

[Limbo Pete]

How are they left wing when they got rid of the left leaning people from power and actively recruited hard right extremists for positions of power?

You keep avoiding these simple, simple facts with vague claims you make, like the "nazis also wanted to radically change german society where german ppl get all the social benefits." as if that says anything about left or right wing ideology or practice.

Weird stuff. Decade after decade of people laying out what fascism and it's tenets are, and you guys seem deadset on simply disregarding all of it, despite the facts, like how the nazis were against the leftists from the beginning.

1933 - The nazis attain control of Germany

1925 - Hitler publishes Mein Kampf, detailing in great length his hatred of communism and the left, along with Jews, minorities, the infirmed, amongst others.

How in the fuck are the nazis, led by the ideology of Hitler and other illiberal oddities from Germany and the region left wing, given they fought explicitly against the left while demonizing the media and minorities in tandem with them?

I await the rationalizations about how the Lebensraum was all about reuiniting with their Marxist leftist brothers as they moved East.........

Guys like that view history as a zero sum game. Either you own something, or the people you don't like own it. They desperately try to shove Nazis over to the other side, whatever that may or may not be, because the implication is that it's on theirs otherwise.

 

[rob mafia]

First off, I don’t even think you understand your Nazi apologia, or else you wouldn’t have posted it.

and yes, von Moses is a crackpot. You’re confusing him with Hayek.


If you haven’t noticed, the entire reason that you were tagged into this thread is that you’re a notorious forum idiot. That’s not something to be proud of.

hey, look - nothing but ad-hom. again.

a bunch of idiots thinking i'm wrong never had any bearing on me before, i can't imagine i'm going to start caring now.

lolz @ stating facts being "nazi apologia."

and i didn't confuse him with hayek, i just mentioned "his pupil." derp. what do you think the nobel was for? oh, right... mises' work.

fun fact: von mises fled the nazis to the usa. but i guess he's a 'nazi apologist,' too, amirite? lolz @ lefties' fragility when it comes to nazis. they don't care about stalin, mao, etc - but holy shit, god forbid they read that national socialists were leftists.

 

[Bamboozled]

Says the poster boy for Dunning-Kruger.

Except I never claimed to be smarter than anyone. Just more educated on topics in which I discuss.

 

[rob mafia]

How are they left wing when they got rid of the left leaning people from power and actively recruited hard right extremists for positions of power?

You keep avoiding these simple, simple facts with vague claims you make, like the "nazis also wanted to radically change german society where german ppl get all the social benefits." as if that says anything about left or right wing ideology or practice.

Weird stuff. Decade after decade of people laying out what fascism and it's tenets are, and you guys seem deadset on simply disregarding all of it, despite the facts, like how the nazis were against the leftists from the beginning.

1933 - The nazis attain control of Germany

1925 - Hitler publishes Mein Kampf, detailing in great length his hatred of communism and the left, along with Jews, minorities, the infirmed, amongst others.

How in the fuck are the nazis, led by the ideology of Hitler and other illiberal oddities from Germany and the region left wing, given they fought explicitly against the left while demonizing the media and minorities in tandem with them?

I await the rationalizations about how the Lebensraum was all about reuiniting with their Marxist leftist brothers as they moved East.........

gun bans, social welfare, huge govt, govt-run infrastructure, etc... you know, "far-right" stuff. /s

you act like lefties couldn't be against other lefties. communists NEVER fought with other lefties... especially in the same period... oh, wait.