Ninjutsu: the missing link for UFC

JKD sanda said:
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https://archive.org/details/pdfy-PqQZqu1qbBnAR3tl excuse me it’s was karate/TKD used in the 1980’s maybe the late 1970,s
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thanks for that - so weird though there is no date on it and almost no information on the internet about it. one source suggests it is just post vietnam and another that it is from the 60s. So hard to tell if it was the manual for combatives for SF or just a project. FM 21-150 is the field manual for general army combatives and has been around since the 50s apparently, would be interesting to see what was used at the time and how it compared.
 
ocean size said:
thanks for that - so weird though there is no date on it and almost no information on the internet about it. one source suggests it is just post vietnam and another that it is from the 60s. So hard to tell if it was the manual for combatives for SF or just a project. FM 21-150 is the field manual for general army combatives and has been around since the 50s apparently, would be interesting to see what was used at the time and how it compared.
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I own the SF book I’ll try to find it give you date . Fm 21 -150 was used up into the 1990s. My h2h training was from the that manual. 11b 1992 to 1995 I think I have link for it http://www.combatreform.org/FM21_150_combatives1992.pdf
 
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JKD sanda said:
I own the SF book I’ll try to find it give you date . Fm 21 -150 was used up into the 1990s. My h2h training was from the that manual. 11b 1992 to 1995 I think I have link for it
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It looks like theres a 4 digit number on the bottom of the very last page but blurry on the scan. The reason it just seems odd to me is I see why the military would send trainers all the way to Japan to study Judo for example, as that's a standing grappling art which western martial arts don't have a great analog for (Greco-Roman maybe but that doesn't really lend itself to projecting deadly force, but if that was THE manual for SF at the time, why the exclusion of western arts like boxing when there was an abundance of trainers and expertise in the country? SF had been around since the early fifties, you'd think they'd be taking the best of what combatives had offered up to that point.

Then again perhaps I am forgetting how under the spell the country was of eastern martial arts until the UFC era began.
 
ocean size said:
It looks like theres a 4 digit number on the bottom of the very last page but blurry on the scan. The reason it just seems odd to me is I see why the military would send trainers all the way to Japan to study Judo for example, as that's a standing grappling art which western martial arts don't have a great analog for (Greco-Roman maybe but that doesn't really lend itself to projecting deadly force, but if that was THE manual for SF at the time, why the exclusion of western arts like boxing when there was an abundance of trainers and expertise in the country? SF had been around since the early fifties, you'd think they'd be taking the best of what combatives had offered up to that point.

Then again perhaps I am forgetting how under the spell the country was of eastern martial arts until the UFC era began.
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Date I found is 1980 .very small print . They may used it briefly or experimental. the Army used Usmc line for a short time . Our training used boxing , kicks and some Judo moves . Most was bayonet. Some sentry removal. Like you said from the FM
 
I'm friends with a dude who trained it for a few years learning to fight with swords and those 5 foot long wooden sticks. He learnt this for SELF DEFENCE.

I told him when you're out drinking in a pub or walking down the street, when are going gonna have a sword in your hand?
 
JabToucher said:
I'm friends with a dude who trained it for a few years learning to fight with swords and those 5 foot long wooden sticks. He learnt this for SELF DEFENCE.

I told him when you're out drinking in a pub or walking down the street, when are going gonna have a sword in your hand?
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shincheckin said:
as we can see here, ninjutsu has clearly powerful, practical, and efficient techniques. Its amazing we dont see the deadly art of ninjutsu in UFC. I think we could call it the missing link for UFC becuase I think training ninjutsu would definitely help those who train UFC. Perhaps we dont see it much because it is somewhat of a lost art and the techniques are too dangerous. The majority of styles that remain are the typical stick/sword fighting styles such as kenjitsu for example. But the true styles such as Seishin-Teki-Kyo'yo' seem to have been lost or difficult to find.

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Jack Stevonovich said:
You just have to do a meta analysis on the implied values of various martial traditions and when and how they became LARPing.

Without scholastic wrestling wrestling in the united stated would have evolved completely into LARPing ala professional wrestling such as the WWE.

Sometimes they don't transition into larping but evolve into a dance style when their is a ban placed on the practice of Martial traditions. Examples of that would be Cossak dancing, capoeira, and the shaolin styles of kung fu.

Notice how allowing the cossak military tradition to become a dance allowed it to be appropriated by the dominant Russian culture and exported giving the dominated culture a means of identity in their subjugation.

What happened in the case of Wing Chun is people looked to create a functional martial style from shaolin kung fu but enstead created a LARPing style of TMA. Something similar to this has been done with a TMA developed out of cossak dancing recently called Hoppak.

Nottice at how innefective it is to try to recreate a functional martial art out of one that has become a dance such as the case of Hoppak.

Can you imagine how innefective it would have been if pre world war 1 the cossaks rebelled using Hoppak as their melee system?

Considering this it then makes sense why a conquering culture would allow the dominated culture to maintain Cossak dance or Shaolin style fung fu because it is incredibly effective at undermining the dominated cultures Martial Traditions from within.

Now here look how effective Cossak dance is when used as a source of crosstraining with a base in a living effective martial tradition such as boxing.

Vasyl Lomechenko stopped boxing completely for four years and trained Cossak Dance.

So it creates a strong movement base to train real fighters from in service of the dominant culture as well when done properly.
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weird style...
 
JKD sanda said:
Date I found is 1980 .very small print . They may used it briefly or experimental. the Army used Usmc line for a short time . Our training used boxing , kicks and some Judo moves . Most was bayonet. Some sentry removal. Like you said from the FM
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In WW2 I think their was a lot of cultural exchange as far as technique is concerned for example one of my grandfathers father and older brother were butchered and their bodies displayed on pikes in the center of town and he at age 12 or so was chased in the jungle by a full grown man and had to beat him to death to survive. In the jungle he joined a resistance group where they fought with knives until the US military arrived and he joined with them. My other grandfather arrived there as part of the US military and picked up a knife from their culture and that is the knife he used so he might of learned from their knife fighters how to use it.
 
Jack Stevonovich said:
In WW2 I think their was a lot of cultural exchange as far as technique is concerned for example one of my grandfathers father and older brother were butchered and their bodies displayed on pikes in the center of town and he at age 12 or so was chased in the jungle by a full grown man and had to beat him to death to survive. In the jungle he joined a resistance group where they fought with knives until the US military arrived and he joined with them. My other grandfather arrived there as part of the US military and picked up a knife from their culture and that is the knife he used so he might of learned from their knife fighters how to use it.
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That’s possible , ww2 open up a lot in the world of combatives for both sides .
 
JKD sanda said:
That’s possible , ww2 open up a lot in the world of combatives for both sides .
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yeah, and a lot of societies then were pretty much for the most part pre electricity and pre industrial societies so the resistance fighters weren't using guns. Plus guns are noisy so weren't exactly conducive to guerilla ware fare tactics when your only supply chain to access ammunition is pulled from the bodies of men you killed. So, by the time the US military arrived they encountered and allied with battle hardened resistance fighters that had developed guerilla tactics around stealth fighting using melee weapons with several years of live combat experience.
 
Ninjitsiu is an awesome martial art, I have enjoyed it in past, its history is also very intriguing.

However its not practical or is rendered useless in a Rule Set Sport.

TMA's are for military application or specifically a Ninja is a trained assassin in black ops, or aka shadow (night) warriors.

Ninjitsiu has many techniques that are for killing not sport the use of........ Iron Claws, Kama or Shuriken........ identifies the intent of the killing arts purpose by design.

You could break down some techniques and blend them into MMA/UFC but thats no different than some of the already Jiu-Jitsiu techniques and it wouldn't be Ninjitsiu anymore anyway.

A friend of mine back in my school days studied Ninjitsiu and we shared some techniques played with weapons so on in his back yard.

It is a good system for real world applications just not for sport, simply said some TMA's do not translate into a sport rule set environment by design.

That does not mean the system of martial art is useless just incorrect application.







 
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FighterTwister said:
Ninjitsiu is an awesome martial art, I have enjoyed it in past, its history is also very intriguing.

However its not practical or is rendered useless in a Rule Set Sport.

TMA's are for military application or specifically a Ninja is a trained assassin in black ops, or aka shadow (night) warriors.

Ninjitsiu has many techniques that are for killing not sport the use of........ Iron Claws, Kama or Shuriken........ identifies the intent of the killing arts purpose by design.

You could break down some techniques and blend them into MMA/UFC but thats no different than some of the already Jiu-Jitsiu techniques and it wouldn't be Ninjitsiu anymore anyway.

A friend of mine back in my school days studied Ninjitsiu and we shared some techniques played with weapons so on in his back yard.

It is a good system for real world applications just not for sport, simply said some TMA's do not translate into a sport rule set environment by design.

That does not mean the system of martial art is useless just incorrect application.







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this very true , many have forgotten the difference between sport MA and self defense/military MA . Then many have or don’t know martial art means military art . Mma take many techniques from TMA that have been found effective.
 
A nice read........... https://www.pauladaunt.com/books/Secrets of the Ninja.pdf

THE ANATOMY OF A NINJA..............

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64311007_ninja_624.gif


maxresdefault.jpg
 
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Stay the F away from Ninjutsu. Took it for a year when I was 16-17 yo and got my ass beat so bad when I was 20 - i was about 164 against a 240 fat dude who didnt like me in his neighborhood with 2 white girls. Wasnt prepared at all for just getting bull rushed (while tryna take off my nice white puffy shirt) and then getting head slammed repeatedly into concrete till i was a comatose neck fractured mess. Ninjutsu did however improve my stealth game by convincing me to buy\wear a fully garbed ninja outfit mask and all and stalk White people in a rich suburb using shadow and remaining undetected which fortunately i was successful at or you would have heard about me on CNN. Master Chang also taught me how to be almost lethal with foam nunchucks, stars and a wooden katana. He also threatened to cut my head off when i could no longer honor the contract i signed as a sixteen yo.

Point of story - after I recovered neck injury (bout 5 years) i discovered Lifting/whey protein (220 now) BJJ, boxing and Bando (Burmese Thai) and never lost a fight again on the street (or jungle, long story)
 
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