Ninjutsu: the missing link for UFC

[shincheckin]

as we can see here, ninjutsu has clearly powerful, practical, and efficient techniques. Its amazing we dont see the deadly art of ninjutsu in UFC. I think we could call it the missing link for UFC becuase I think training ninjutsu would definitely help those who train UFC. Perhaps we dont see it much because it is somewhat of a lost art and the techniques are too dangerous. The majority of styles that remain are the typical stick/sword fighting styles such as kenjitsu for example. But the true styles such as Seishin-Teki-Kyo'yo' seem to have been lost or difficult to find.

 

[ocean size]

lol too obvious 3/10

 

[FighterTwister]

I love all this stuff but pfft don't bother, its to much for some here to even grasp the idea of TMA's!

 

[sweetviolenturg]

No disrespect intended but this is how Ninjutsu fared in the UFC when it was represented way back in UFC 2:

 

[JKD sanda]

No disrespect intended but this is how Ninjutsu fared in the UFC when it was represented way back in UFC 2:

Some didn’t fare well, when someone was just determined to whoop ass lol

 

[Jack Stevonovich]

So I looked up the history of kung fu and the shaolin temple styles were created when martial training had been outlawed in that region of china so the shaolin styles and all the styles derived from it are hundreds of years and multiple steps removed from being practiced in live combat situations ever. They were never anything but Larping ever.

The pile of souvenirs my grandfather took as trophies from his knife kills in live combat seem like solid evidence of the efficacy of his coal mining wrestling background combined with his special forces knife combat training.

 

[JKD sanda]

So I looked up the history of kung fu and the shaolin temple styles were created when martial training had been outlawed in that region of china so the shaolin styles and all the styles derived from it are hundreds of years and multiple steps removed from being practiced in live combat situations ever. They were never anything but Larping ever.

The pile of souvenirs my grandfather took as trophies from his knife kills in live combat seem like solid evidence of the efficacy of his coal mining wrestling background combined with his special forces knife combat training.

What war was this in ?

 

[Jack Stevonovich]

What war was this in ?

WW2

 

[JKD sanda]

WW2

WW2

Interesting , considering China fought against Japan in ww2 and China was supported by the US . Why would your grandfather being killing Chinese ?

 

[ocean size]

Interesting , considering China fought against Japan in ww2 and China was supported by the US . Why would your grandfather being killing Chinese ?

Those two paragraphs appear to have been on separate topics.

 

[Jack Stevonovich]

Interesting , considering China fought against Japan in ww2 and China was supported by the US . Why would your grandfather being killing Chinese ?

I never said he did.

What I implied is that 'TMA' fetishists for some reason seem to only fetishize East Asian Martial arts and mourn the loss of it's pseudo mystical prowess in the wake of MMA, specifically the first 4 UFC's.

What people that fetishize East Asian TMA's fail to comprehend is that other cultures have their own Martial traditions that do not descend from East Asia and the Traditional American Martial Art of wrestling, like in our many wars, is the base from which further martial instruction creates champions in combat AND combat sport situations. Just look at the UFC roster of champions right now the HW, LHW, WW, LW, BW, and FLW champions all have a wrestling base. Wrestling IS a TMA and the traditional base from which other weapons training was added onto in the creation of warrior's in The United States for combat situations for hundreds of years. That is to say that it is battle tested.

 

[JKD sanda]

I never said he did.

What I implied is that 'TMA' fetishists for some reason seem to only fetishize East Asian Martial arts and mourn the loss of it's pseudo mystical prowess in the wake of MMA, specifically the first 4 UFC's.

What people that fetishize East Asian TMA's fail to comprehend is that other cultures have their own Martial traditions that do not descend from East Asia and the Traditional American Martial Art of wrestling, like in our many wars, is the base from which further martial instruction creates champions in combat AND combat sport situations. Just look at the UFC roster of champions right now the HW, LHW, WW, LW, BW, and FLW champions all have a wrestling base. Wrestling IS a TMA and the traditional base from which other weapons training was added onto in the creation of warrior's in The United States for combat situations for hundreds of years. That is to say that it is battle tested.

Well the way it’s written appears as if you’re say he killed Chinese .
true, Wrestling is a excellent and over looked art . But many books have been written on h2h . Even prior to ww2 . The authors othen used techniques from both . After ww2 many h2h manuals used boxing , Asian MA . Special forces put out a book they use karate only . the US army thru the 80 and 90s combatives was judo & boxing .today it’s bjj based. Many question the effectiveness of bjj as a combative system . Sport fighting vs war fighting . In war like street fight going to the ground can be risky . multiple attackers , weapons can come into play .

 

[denoaikijitsu]

i do alot martial arts i took ninjutsu aka bujinkan as ninjutsu is more of a name then a art its alot like aikido in fact some the same exact moves in aikido are in bujinkan but i didnt feel it was that effective and really theatrical even more then aikido at times and no real sparring either atleast where i was taught if your looking for a good stricking art that is kinda rare look into leithwei now ninjutsu/bujinkan guys might get mad its not that its a non-useful art but there are stuck back in ninja days and alot of it like outdated special forces there weaponary tactics where very much appealing though and if your into sneaky attacks and cool weapons bujinkan is pretty cool for them things i just dont think its a complete enough art for ufc like many arts it could be a great base to start from and learn alot more ground game and strikes there throws are much like judos and aikidos

 

[shincheckin]

I have decided to take up ameridotae instead

 

[JKD sanda]

I have decided to take up ameridotae instead

Oh yeah

 

[Jack Stevonovich]

Well the way it’s written appears as if you’re say he killed Chinese .
true, Wrestling is a excellent and over looked art . But many books have been written on h2h . Even prior to ww2 . The authors othen used techniques from both . After ww2 many h2h manuals used boxing , Asian MA . Special forces put out a book they use karate only . the US army thru the 80 and 90s combatives was judo & boxing .today it’s bjj based. Many question the effectiveness of bjj as a combative system . Sport fighting vs war fighting . In war like street fight going to the ground can be risky . multiple attackers , weapons can come into play .

Well basically the further you go back in time the bigger wrestling is going to be and the less bottle necked the traditional base it stems from will have been. When my gramps learned it it was just a past time people participated in as an outgrowth of and closely tied into roughhousing as a kid. So that is where it lived and the skillset was learned which included submissions. It was a tradition that predated the countries independence. Most of the regional folk traditions have died out but they were still present in my Gramps day. If it wasn't for scholastic wrestling our traditional martial art probably would have died entirely and the transmission of skills and knowledge with it. It is a tradition that stood on it's own and in each war they used different weapons that they trained soldiers to use which stacked on top of a wrestling base. I am pretty sure by the time you get to the Vietnam war that the traditional folk styles were pretty much dead and the soldiers fighting in that war didn't grow up with that traditional base that was once common. Sure, there were probably individual cases that moves were taught from father to son but the living tradition where most kids had once learned it at that point had been lost and forgotten about.

Historically the kodokan sent out ambassadors of the sport of judo to prove it's efficacy in local wrestling bouts globally and I think a lot of the Hoo Ha surrounding East Asian martial arts stems from there and was exacerbated by Bruce Lee films. I am pretty sure that Bruce Lee films created the market for east Asian TMA schools in the west where there was a void created by a loss of the folk submission wrestling tradition being considered a martial art and forgotten about. In this take over by East Asian Martial traditions an insidious thing happened where a bunch of the styles that were essentially LARPing came pre packed with a justification system of why it could never be pressure tested. The funny thing is the further you go back in the history of those traditions, all the way to the advent of the shaolin temple, it reveals that they never prepared soldiers for war ever and that every style that descended from the shaolin style was purely hypothetical which in essence is virtually identical to LARPing.

So it really is absurd when TMA guys pull their "too deadly" lines or that it was intended for combat when more often than not their style descends from LARPing all the way back to it's inception as a style. Then out of some strange victim complex on being regarded as a LARPer feel they are completely justified to disregard and dismiss the traditional Martial styles and traditions of other cultures that descend from a real combat tradition that has been battle tested in countless real melee death matches and sport scenarios.

Beyond that TMA styles that are LARPing tend to focus on escalations of violence as the only scenarios where the skills are to be used as a justification for never using them ever with a greater emphasis placed on unquestioning faith in authority which is more in line with the despotic value system where the style originates from. While Martial styles that are effective tend to focus on rules to prevent full scale escalations of violence where the knowledge of the skill set is inseparable from rules as a part of a tradition of creating order in the chaos of mans propensity towards violence. Where at once the application of martial skills can be maintained and contained in a civil manor during times of peace.

 

[JKD sanda]

Well basically the further you go back in time the bigger wrestling is going to be and the less bottle necked the traditional base it stems from will have been. When my gramps learned it it was just a past time people participated in as an outgrowth of and closely tied into roughhousing as a kid. So that is where it lived and the skillset was learned which included submissions. It was a tradition that predated the countries independence. Most of the regional folk traditions have died out but they were still present in my Gramps day. If it wasn't for scholastic wrestling our traditional martial art probably would have died entirely and the transmission of skills and knowledge with it. It is a tradition that stood on it's own and in each war they used different weapons that they trained soldiers to use which stacked on top of a wrestling base. I am pretty sure by the time you get to the Vietnam war that the traditional folk styles were pretty much dead and the soldiers fighting in that war didn't grow up with that traditional base that was once common. Sure, there were probably individual cases that moves were taught from father to son but the living tradition where most kids had once learned it at that point had been lost and forgotten about.

Historically the kodokan sent out ambassadors of the sport of judo to prove it's efficacy in local wrestling bouts globally and I think a lot of the Hoo Ha surrounding East Asian martial arts stems from there and was exacerbated by Bruce Lee films. I am pretty sure that Bruce Lee films created the market for east Asian TMA schools in the west where there was a void created by a loss of the folk submission wrestling tradition being considered a martial art and forgotten about. In this take over by East Asian Martial traditions an insidious thing happened where a bunch of the styles that were essentially LARPing came pre packed with a justification system of why it could never be pressure tested. The funny thing is the further you go back in the history of those traditions, all the way to the advent of the shaolin temple, it reveals that they never prepared soldiers for war ever and that every style that descended from the shaolin style was purely hypothetical which in essence is virtually identical to LARPing.

So it really is absurd when TMA guys pull their "too deadly" lines or that it was intended for combat when more often than not their style descends from LARPing all the way back to it's inception as a style. Then out of some strange victim complex on being regarded as a LARPer feel they are completely justified to disregard and dismiss the traditional Martial styles and traditions of other cultures that descend from a real combat tradition that has been battle tested in countless real melee death matches and sport scenarios.

Beyond that TMA styles that are LARPing tend to focus on escalations of violence as the only scenarios where the skills are to be used as a justification for never using them ever with a greater emphasis placed on unquestioning faith in authority which is more in line with the despotic value system where the style originates from. While Martial styles that are effective tend to focus on rules to prevent full scale escalations of violence where the knowledge of the skill set is inseparable from rules as a part of a tradition of creating order in the chaos of mans propensity towards violence. Where at once the application of martial skills can be maintained and contained in a civil manor during times of peace.

BS

 

[Jack Stevonovich]

BS

You just have to do a meta analysis on the implied values of various martial traditions and when and how they became LARPing.

Without scholastic wrestling wrestling in the united stated would have evolved completely into LARPing ala professional wrestling such as the WWE.

Sometimes they don't transition into larping but evolve into a dance style when their is a ban placed on the practice of Martial traditions. Examples of that would be Cossak dancing, capoeira, and the shaolin styles of kung fu.

Notice how allowing the cossak military tradition to become a dance allowed it to be appropriated by the dominant Russian culture and exported giving the dominated culture a means of identity in their subjugation.

What happened in the case of Wing Chun is people looked to create a functional martial style from shaolin kung fu but enstead created a LARPing style of TMA. Something similar to this has been done with a TMA developed out of cossak dancing recently called Hoppak.

Nottice at how innefective it is to try to recreate a functional martial art out of one that has become a dance such as the case of Hoppak.

Can you imagine how innefective it would have been if pre world war 1 the cossaks rebelled using Hoppak as their melee system?

Considering this it then makes sense why a conquering culture would allow the dominated culture to maintain Cossak dance or Shaolin style fung fu because it is incredibly effective at undermining the dominated cultures Martial Traditions from within.

Now here look how effective Cossak dance is when used as a source of crosstraining with a base in a living effective martial tradition such as boxing.

Vasyl Lomechenko stopped boxing completely for four years and trained Cossak Dance.

So it creates a strong movement base to train real fighters from in service of the dominant culture as well when done properly.

 

[Judoka1532]

Man you are gonna catcha lot of hell for this post. I'll try to be nice about it. Listen, these arts look good to the eye, but they are all done with cooperating partners. Rule of thumb, if a martial art doesn't involve real life sparring (as in 2 guys are not just practicing) then that art can be ruled ineffective. A wrestler, a orange belt or higher in Judo, or 1yr white belt in BJJ would destroy these guys make no mistake about it.

I know it sounds good and I know we want to believe some "ancient martial art" is still the best. But history lesson here, if things/ideas don't work, they get abandoned by most. There's a reason most popular styles of martial arts today are still around....because they actually work. By that-->wrestling, judo, bjj, boxing, KB, muay thai. I'm not a big fan of karate, tae kwon-do and all those traditional striking arts but they can be somewhat effective if used correctly so I won't bash them too much but I wouldn't waste my time leaning when I can sign up for muay thai and boxing.

 

[JKD sanda]

You just have to do a meta analysis on the implied values of various martial traditions and when and how they became LARPing.

Without scholastic wrestling wrestling in the united stated would have evolved completely into LARPing ala professional wrestling such as the WWE.

Sometimes they don't transition into larping but evolve into a dance style when their is a ban placed on the practice of Martial traditions. Examples of that would be Cossak dancing, capoeira, and the shaolin styles of kung fu.

Notice how allowing the cossak military tradition to become a dance allowed it to be appropriated by the dominant Russian culture and exported giving the dominated culture a means of identity in their subjugation.

What happened in the case of Wing Chun is people looked to create a functional martial style from shaolin kung fu but enstead created a LARPing style of TMA. Something similar to this has been done with a TMA developed out of cossak dancing recently called Hoppak.

Nottice at how innefective it is to try to recreate a functional martial art out of one that has become a dance such as the case of Hoppak.

Can you imagine how innefective it would have been if pre world war 1 the cossaks rebelled using Hoppak as their melee system?

Considering this it then makes sense why a conquering culture would allow the dominated culture to maintain Cossak dance or Shaolin style fung fu because it is incredibly effective at undermining the dominated cultures Martial Traditions from within.

Now here look how effective Cossak dance is when used as a source of crosstraining with a base in a living effective martial tradition such as boxing.

Vasyl Lomechenko stopped boxing completely for four years and trained Cossak Dance.

So it creates a strong movement base to train real fighters from in service of the dominant culture as well when done properly.

I don’t care about this , im talking about bs story prior to this nonsense. I don’t train in a TMA or sport . I do have a respect for TMA . Yes China did train train for combat prior to ww2. And Kung fu held full contact matches Lei tai .