Nigel Farage - There is a Fifth Column of Traitors in Europe

Yes, because disdaining the very purpose of one's biological destiny is logical and rational.

Instead, let's indulge in senseless hedonism that leads to one's annihilation. That is so rational.

You're assuming that it's an abandonment of her biological destiny.
Tell me what is irrational about choosing not to reproduce?

ETA: Also, sorry, but I'm not really clear how choosing not to have kids would lead to this woman's annihilation.
 
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I would not say it will be the ruling class, at least not the ruling class that exists today. I think the more likely result is a far reaching Far Right movement that takes on Islam in a very dirty way that would be unnecessary if our governments today listened to reason and acted with the best interests of Europe in mind. But they won't, so a Right wing populist will spill tons of blood and save Europe, or else Europe will fall to Islamic conquest in short order.

Both are grim futures in terms of the human cost, but the Far-Right future would, in the long term, be better for Europe than the alternative Moslem conquest.

But yes, I agree: The powers to be in Europe are not well meaning Liberals, but a lethal alliance of internationalist capitalists who think nothing but economic gain for the hyper-wealthy view, and Cultural Marxists who disdain European civilization and the peoples of Europe.

100% agree with all of this. Only wish more "good liberals" could see this and more people could see they are being played.

You also mentioned option 3 which I didn't think is possible but sounds better. Since it sees the elite traitors losing power.

Yes, because disdaining the very purpose of one's biological destiny is logical and rational.

Instead, let's indulge in senseless hedonism that leads to one's annihilation. That is so rational.

I like your posting style.
 
You're assuming that it's an abandonment of her biological destiny.
Tell me what is irrational about choosing not to reproduce?

ETA: Also, sorry, but I'm not really clear how choosing not to have kids would lead to this woman's annihilation.

I just lost a wonderful post in respond to this. Let me summarize:

Refusal to participate in life resolves one to annihilation as one has broken the chain that binds us to even the earliest stage of life.

Participation in reproduction, meanwhile, allows one to participate in the immortality of continued life. We also know that the true, abiding pleasure of parenthood is conceived of (and rightfully so) as a far more meaningful pleasure than the passing, and ultimately meaningless, pleasures of "being single and 'free'". Tihs also falsely believes that one cannot be free and a mother, which is ridiculous, as one still has a life to lead while being a mother.

It is little more than pure nihilism to not want to reproduce. The only exception would be a rational recognition that one's reproduction is undesirable due to genetic flaws, and even then, there is reason to suspect that some might be justified in claiming a flawed existence is better than non-existence.

In a very real sense, every creature on this planet has a duty to reproduce as that is a biological imperative. Failure to do so is biologically ruinous, as one has failed to secure a future for the part of oneself that can last forever in a material sense.
 
100% agree with all of this. Only wish more "good liberals" could see this and more people could see they are being played.

You also mentioned option 3 which I didn't think is possible but sounds better. Since it sees the elite traitors losing power.

Any leader from the Far Right is going to, by definiton, not come from the current ruling classes, which are dominated by the Capitalist Center and Marxist Left, especially in Europe. This will be a refreshing change, as we shall at least get someone in power who has an honest desire to preserve Europe, provided he can win the war against Islam (which is by no means certain as Islam is incredibly strong).

I like your posting style.

Ditto.
 
It's really shocking to me how quickly this stuff is coming to a head. I remember seeing the trends back in the late 00s. Hell, these issues have been confronting Western Europe for decades. People thought that it would be an issue that only their children would face. I guess not.
 
Refusal to participate in life resolves one to annihilation as one has broken the chain that binds us to even the earliest stage of life.

Perpetuation of the species is more important than individual reproduction.
It wouldn't be particularly difficult to come up with a rational list of ways in which an individual's reproduction might be detrimental to the species, or even just to the culture from which that person comes.


Participation in reproduction, meanwhile, allows one to participate in the immortality of continued life.

The idea of immortality through parenthood seems a little sentimental, and I can't really get on-board with it.


We also know that the true, abiding pleasure of parenthood is conceived of (and rightfully so) as a far more meaningful pleasure than the passing, and ultimately meaningless, pleasures of "being single and 'free'".

Who is 'we'?
Again, this idea seems overly sentimental. If parenthood offered everyone some inherent meaningful pleasure, there would probably be fewer people (both parents and not) rejecting it.
As it is, there are people who abandon their children, people who abuse them, kill them, torture them.
Not everyone produced by a society is suited to the pressures of parenting. Maybe those people would have turned out less fucked up if they had chosen to abstain from dipping their toes in the gene pool, when they were clearly unprepared for the responsibilities attached to doing so.

Tihs also falsely believes that one cannot be free and a mother, which is ridiculous, as one still has a life to lead while being a mother.

This depends on your definition of freedom.
Being a parent is confining and restricting, compared to the alternative, so unless your definition of freedom includes confinement and restriction, I'm not sure how rational it is to assert that motherhood is not a limitation on freedom.


It is little more than pure nihilism to not want to reproduce. The only exception would be a rational recognition that one's reproduction is undesirable due to genetic flaws...

Genetic flaws are not the only exception. Economic, psychological and social considerations should be taken into account when discussing the rational decision to reproduce with the intent of actually rearing your offspring.


and even then, there is reason to suspect that some might be justified in claiming a flawed existence is better than non-existence.

And there is reason to suspect that some might be justified in claiming the opposite.

In a very real sense, every creature on this planet has a duty to reproduce as that is a biological imperative. Failure to do so is biologically ruinous

No, every creature on this planet has a duty to the survival of its species, which is not the same thing.
Ants, for example. It is not every ant's duty to reproduce. It is their duty to sustain the colony; to support reproduction, not necessarily engage in it.

If a scientist working on terraforming, for example, chooses not to have children because doing so would negatively impact his chances of success, he is still doing more to support both reproduction and the survival of the species than is the single mother, struggling to make ends meet and adding another mouth for the world to feed.
 
Well, partly because there is a threat, however small it is. I don't believe a failure to possibly influence a school is that dangerous either. There are plenty of religious schools, I personally think they are all a mistake but they're not unusual.

You're right though, the spending is vastly out of control. More importantly though various laws have been passed in the fight against this tiny threat which threaten us all. Detention without trial for example.

The government are quite happy using peoples unfounded fear, just like the terrorists and our own far right. It suits everyone except us.

Well there you go then I guess. You don't have a problem with terrorism as long as the death numbers stay lowish. You don't have a problem with islamists taking over schools in places like Birmingham and Tower Hamlets. I assume you don't have a problem with the Islamist vote rigging in those places either. And you write off the rape problems as "cultural not religious".

No wonder you're so in love with immigration.
 
The idea of Muslim conquest is totally fucking ridiculous, what next, ze Germans?

Europe has land boarders, the US has shown how stupid it is to even try to halt mass immigration.

Life is change, you hanker after something that never was and never will be.

The people you believe we serve in opposition to your racism are those who lead your nonsense movements, check their business interests why don't you.

A little education, not the retarded echo chambers you imagine that to be, would go a long way. I can only hope you're children have many multicultural friends and learn the hate you speak is demonstrable drivel.

You have shown yourselves to be thoroughly unpleasant.
 
Nigel Farage is a hero of yours?
He's certainly very entertaining. But he holds absolutely no educated opinion on anything. If he's ilk ever came to power in the EU it would absolutely devastate the European economy.

As for the fifth column. It's correct that there's a big issue with muslim immigration in Europe. They're harder to integrate than any other group (and I believe Islam is a factor in that regard).
That being said, the people who have carried out these terrorist attacks are not actually citizens within Europe. So it seems very unfair to call for increased suspicion on muslim citizens in Europe, just on the basis of them being muslim. Also very counter-productive as far as intergration is concerned.

Do you have to end all your posts with some outrageous posisiton?

Yeah, but no. The Kouachi brothers, and the other moron, were all French citizens. And, for instance, the guy who murdered Theo van Gogh in '04, was a Dutch citizen.
 
Well there you go then I guess. You don't have a problem with terrorism as long as the death numbers stay lowish. You don't have a problem with islamists taking over schools in places like Birmingham and Tower Hamlets. I assume you don't have a problem with the Islamist vote rigging in those places either. And you write off the rape problems as "cultural not religious".

No wonder you're so in love with immigration.

I'm against spending billions and removing our freedom using people like yours fear of a threat that hardly exists.

I am against any religious schools.

I am against any vote rigging.

I am against rapists whatever their culture, creed, ethnicity.

I would like a well managed immigration policy which maintains our population and spreads the incomers thinly.

How you jump from that to wanting the floodgates open I don't know. The main difference here is i am not a sensationalist, I am not scared or fearful, I base my beliefs on evidence and I'm well educated/traveled.
 
There are some disgusting traitors in this thread.

Seriously pretending that MUSLIM rape of primarily EUROPEAN WOMEN IS NOT AN ISSUE?

Seriously pretending that pride in ones nation =racism?

Seriously pretending that massive 3rd world immigration is good for Europe?

Seriously pretending that Islam has enriched Europe?...

Nobody here said any of these things. Who are you quoting?
 
I'm against spending billions and removing our freedom using people like yours fear of a threat that hardly exists.

I am against any religious schools.

I am against any vote rigging.

I am against rapists whatever their culture, creed, ethnicity.

I would like a well managed immigration policy which maintains our population and spreads the incomers thinly.

How you jump from that to wanting the floodgates open I don't know. The main difference here is i am not a sensationalist, I am not scared or fearful, I base my beliefs on evidence and I'm well educated/traveled.

I get it - only you and people who agree with you are intelligent and rational.

My assumption that you want open immigration comes from the statements you've made about holding back immigration being pointless, how life is change and your apparent view that immigration simply isn't a problem at all. If you believe this then I would have thought open immigration would be a given. I'm glad I'm wrong.

The schools they took over were not religious but state schools. They would not be named as religious schools after either. However they would have islamic heads and staff with an intention of pushing an agenda. I have a problem that and I believe it to obviously a direct result of large-scale immigration of people from a vastly different culture with allegiances to a totalitarian religion like Islam. I can't believe someone as intelligent as you thinks this is not an immigration and multicultural issue to be concerned about.

Are you also pretending that the vote rigging isn't a direct result of immigration, the culture of the immigrants and the numbers/density of them? Search on vote rigging and you'll see it's almost exclusively asian. Brandford, Tower Hamlets, Birmingham - wherever large populations are.

I'm not against all immigration. I think it's necessary in very controlled numbers but should be based on the skills of the people and their financial ability to look after themselves when they arrive.

I also agree that spreading them thinly is necessary (but probably impossible) and I think integration is the key as opposed to multiple cultures which I believe to be problematic.

I'm also aware of the problems of immigration of the scale we've seen here. I have friends in the NHS who moan about the numbers of foreigners turning up with pregnancies, operations, AIDS that needs treating for free for decades. London has the worst TB numbers in Western Europe. My kids have been to a school so full they had to teach some lessons outdoors yet had to allow 4 or 5 non-English speaking kids in one term and then beg the parents for money for translators. I've watched the rise of the Romanian beggar gangs in the West End turn some areas into outdoor toilets and thieving zones. You seem to want to pretend there is no problem with any of this and that anyone challenging it is stupid or bigoted.

I've run offices where 80% of the people I employed were black and asian. My boss of 20 years was Pakistani. I lived in in London for most of the time in ethnically diverse areas including a 3 year stint near Southall. I'm fully aware of the reality of the situation. Yes life is change but that doens't make all change good. Dying is also part of life but I'd still like to hold it back bit if that's OK with you.

On the original post. Farage is saying there is a 5th column. If by that he means a motivated, group of people working from within, against the values of the society they live in to push their own unwelcome agenda then I'd have to say that on the evidence of events like fatwas against Rushdie et al, the London bombers, Charlie Hebdo attack, school take-overs and vote rigging etc - I'd have to agree with him.
 
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Perpetuation of the species is more important than individual reproduction.
It wouldn't be particularly difficult to come up with a rational list of ways in which an individual's reproduction might be detrimental to the species, or even just to the culture from which that person comes.

The species cannot be accounted for in one's actions. "The species" is not the source of natural selection, but the individual.

The idea of immortality through parenthood seems a little sentimental, and I can't really get on-board with it.

Well it is, in the esnse that one's genes continue to persist after one has died. In that sense, the immortal element in mortality is expressed. Perhaps you find it somewhat poetic, but I think it is an accurate reflection.

Take, for instanec, the Y-Chromosome. There is a direct paternal ancestry that preserves the Y-Chromosome. My Y-Chromosome (which belongs to haplogroup I) could be traced back tens of thousands of years, and hundreds of generations, to an early paternal ancestor. This directly links me to his identity and his actions in his life. In a sense, I am an outgrowth of his deeds, as my sons will be of mine. Autosomal DNA is less resistant to this sort of change, due to greater recombination, but is likewise reflective of ancestry and the continuation of someone's line.

Who is 'we'?

Humanity, specifically, studies which relate to choices in life which make for legitimate happiness.

Again, this idea seems overly sentimental. If parenthood offered everyone some inherent meaningful pleasure, there would probably be fewer people (both parents and not) rejecting it.

People can reject something based on an improper view of it. I might think that something is painful, or bad, or hard to achieve, and yet be wrong.

As it is, there are people who abandon their children, people who abuse them, kill them, torture them.

And those people are murderous monsters and should be dealt with.

Not everyone produced by a society is suited to the pressures of parenting. Maybe those people would have turned out less fucked up if they had chosen to abstain from dipping their toes in the gene pool, when they were clearly unprepared for the responsibilities attached to doing so.

I am not suggesting that responsibility to one's children doesn't imply a host of duties.

This depends on your definition of freedom.
Being a parent is confining and restricting, compared to the alternative, so unless your definition of freedom includes confinement and restriction, I'm not sure how rational it is to assert that motherhood is not a limitation on freedom.

If something makes one more fulfilled and happy, is it a true restriction on freedom? Any choice we make in life commits one to a course of action.

Women have a point in which they cannot choose otherwise, restricting their freedom to be mothers just as much as someone else (I mean biologically, as I am speaking purely of biological parenthood).

Genetic flaws are not the only exception. Economic, psychological and social considerations should be taken into account when discussing the rational decision to reproduce with the intent of actually rearing your offspring.

Very few economic considerations should be taken into account to permanently defer parenthood. It may require us to occasionally abstain, or only reproduce a number of times, but it rarely is so pressing as to make it ridiculous to choose parenthood. Moreover, those who tend to disfavour parenthood are those who have the economic resources to do so - meaning they are choosing this option out of mere nihilism.

Psychological and social considerations are almost always nonsense. Society has been built around the institution of marriage and parenting in order to accomodate the future of said society. Unless one is truly warped, one is generally a healthy enough person to rais ea child.

And there is reason to suspect that some might be justified in claiming the opposite.

Perhaps. I leave that open, although I'd leave it open.

No, every creature on this planet has a duty to the survival of its species, which is not the same thing.
Ants, for example. It is not every ant's duty to reproduce. It is their duty to sustain the colony; to support reproduction, not necessarily engage in it.

Ants are colony organsisms that could be considered as almost cells in a body, rather than as autonomous beings. But yes, okay, I grant you: Were we eusocial colony organisms, we'd not have a duty, individually, to reproduce.

There is, however, properly no "species" on the level of reproduction. Only individuals preserving themselves.

If a scientist working on terraforming, for example, chooses not to have children because doing so would negatively impact his chances of success, he is still doing more to support both reproduction and the survival of the species than is the single mother, struggling to make ends meet and adding another mouth for the world to feed.

There is a mistaken view that reproduction is about species. It isn't: It's about the individual's contribution to the next generation.

Dooming himself to oblivion is not a wise choice, in spite of the fact that his social legacy will be great. In fact, he'll almost certainly hurt the "good of the species", which you speak of, by not passing on his good, scientist genes (intelligence and such) to the next generaiton. That's vaslty dysgenic, and why it is so troubling that high-IQ nations (Europe and East Asia) feature below-replacement population growth, whereas low-IQ nations (Africa and Central America, much of Asia) feature hugely high reproductive rates. The net result of this behaviour is a world-wide lowering of IQ, that will become most pronounced when the worst areas in the world, IQ wise, will dwarf the population of high IQ areas.
 
100% agree with all of this. Only wish more "good liberals" could see this and more people could see they are being played.

You also mentioned option 3 which I didn't think is possible but sounds better. Since it sees the elite traitors losing power.



I like your posting style.

I think more liberals than you know support this. That's what the incumbent moderate parties - especially the centre-left ones - do not understand. It is a silent Cold War but instead of a slow build colonial conquest / arms race, it's become a population race that one side is playing while the powers on the other side stand meekly by or more rather, tacitly support this losing strategy.

The critical mass is real. School children in Paris (the muslim ones) have thrown their support behind the Kouachi brothers on a significant level. But yet there is still this ridiculous: "oh maybe 0.05% of Muslims are violent jihadists..." such as what that clown in the Oxford debates last year tried to claim.

No, it's more like 60% and it's growing every day. We might hold a certain disdain for the likes of China and Russia but I can tell you one thing if Europe doesn't dramatically reform their immigration, multiculturalism and social policy - in 50 years it will be a lot nicer to live in China than in Western Europe.

And that would be tragic.

People keep saying that Muslims need to change. It's not true. They don't need to change - why would they? They have the perfect triple threat:
oppressive base countries like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Egypt and Iran where nobody but Muslims are welcome and women are 3rd class at best;
Jihadists and future jihadists and their supporters in western countries whether born there, temp or visa holders along with the millions of others whose goal is to assist in the population scheme of outnumbering natives and non-Muslims;
And finally the silver-tongued so called moderates whose goal is to speak in the language which us passive and lazy westerners like to hear: peace, compassion, acceptance, tolerance, freedom, condemnation of terrorism etc etc.. while all the while defending the policies that are going to send Judeo-Christian Western culture to its inevitable death and all non-Muslim orthodox cultures around the world to their knees bar the toughest ones.

Muslims are winning this one easily. Western leadership bar a few isolated examples have shown extreme weakness in their eagerness to show how understanding and tolerant they are, and a significant portion of the native population who like to consider themselves intellectual and enlightened, have followed along like mice to the river.
 
Smart move by Farage, the UK is scared and fed up of Muslim's and he's right to point the finger to LibLabCon for letting so many of them in and then pandering to them to an incredible extent. I also blame the MSM for the pandering and entitlement these Muslims have.
 
@ Codger

I apologise for the implication and I agree with large parts of your post.

I think some of the issues are ones that a society will experience with a large influx who are put in one place. I'm satisfied that the Islamic control of those schools was prevented.

I think it's stupid to suggest that it's the fault of immigration that NHS/school services are stretched. That's due to lack of adequate funding. I see many of the problems being issues between us and our ruling class with the immigrant problems being a symptom.

Again, reading back your posts I broadly agree and I'm sorry for being abrasive.
 
Farage has an agenda, but who doesn't in the world of politics.

My only gripe is, if I want to go and live in any other country, I have to fight tooth and nail through walls of red tape until I eventually get a work visa on condition that I already have a job confirmed in that country.

The UK, not so much. We truly are the limp-wristed, walkover of the world. anyone is free to enter, without so much as checking their criminal backgrounds or thoroughly looking them over through fear of being criticised and labelled racist/xenophobic. It's pathetic.
 
I think more liberals than you know support this. That's what the incumbent moderate parties - especially the centre-left ones - do not understand. It is a silent Cold War but instead of a slow build colonial conquest / arms race, it's become a population race that one side is playing while the powers on the other side stand meekly by or more rather, tacitly support this losing strategy.

The critical mass is real. School children in Paris (the muslim ones) have thrown their support behind the Kouachi brothers on a significant level. But yet there is still this ridiculous: "oh maybe 0.05% of Muslims are violent jihadists..." such as what that clown in the Oxford debates last year tried to claim.

No, it's more like 60% and it's growing every day. We might hold a certain disdain for the likes of China and Russia but I can tell you one thing if Europe doesn't dramatically reform their immigration, multiculturalism and social policy - in 50 years it will be a lot nicer to live in China than in Western Europe.

And that would be tragic.

People keep saying that Muslims need to change. It's not true. They don't need to change - why would they? They have the perfect triple threat:
oppressive base countries like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Egypt and Iran where nobody but Muslims are welcome and women are 3rd class at best;
Jihadists and future jihadists and their supporters in western countries whether born there, temp or visa holders along with the millions of others whose goal is to assist in the population scheme of outnumbering natives and non-Muslims;
And finally the silver-tongued so called moderates whose goal is to speak in the language which us passive and lazy westerners like to hear: peace, compassion, acceptance, tolerance, freedom, condemnation of terrorism etc etc.. while all the while defending the policies that are going to send Judeo-Christian Western culture to its inevitable death and all non-Muslim orthodox cultures around the world to their knees bar the toughest ones.

Muslims are winning this one easily. Western leadership bar a few isolated examples have shown extreme weakness in their eagerness to show how understanding and tolerant they are, and a significant portion of the native population who like to consider themselves intellectual and enlightened, have followed along like mice to the river.

This is what you get when you are educated almost entirely on youtube videos.

60% of Muslims in Europe are violent jihadists? That is quite astonishing, given I live with hundreds of thousands in my city, workplace and other events, and never met a single one. It's almost as if you have no actually clue about the subject you're preaching about.

I'm amazed that you believe in a totally coordinated Islamic takeover of an entire continent, when muslim countries aren't even able to look after their own affairs without war and genocide. Is this all part of the conspiracy?
 
I'm amazed that you believe in a totally coordinated Islamic takeover of an entire continent, when muslim countries aren't even able to look after their own affairs without war and genocide. Is this all part of the conspiracy?

It's not coordinated by Muslim immigrants beyond any local community level organizing looking out for their own best interests.

It's organized by people in the EU and those private interests who control the EU. They are the ones with the means and motivation to organize the restructuring of European society.

I don't think blaming anyone from the middle or lower classes is fair because they lack the means, and it is natural and predictable for people of the faith to want to stay strong and spread it.

Such conflict with different peoples and values is very natural when pressed together.
 
Such conflict with different peoples and values is very natural when pressed together.

Doesn't seem it to me. I see two groups of traitors pushing us towards conflict, Muslim fundamentalists on one side ams nationalists on the other.

The issue I have with your posts are that you week literally attribute anything whatsoever to globalism/illuminati conspiracy, no matter what, and as of yet I haven't seen a single topic you've posted about that demonstrates the ability to think critically about any topic of any complexity. I really do think you're trolling and have been the entire time though - sorry if you aren't but it's all just bland, vague soundbites that you never actually explain, including the above post.
 
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