Nick Diaz Boxing style

[Nuclearlandmine]

It seems to me people put the cart before the horse when it comes to styles. A style is as good as your ability to meld to it. Uriah Faber, JDS, GSP, Maia all have terrible styles for me because I do not possess their abilities. Dominick Cruz's style always worked well for me in sparring and in bouts. I would almost never commend it for young fighters, however, unless they possessed the same pallet of skills.

It's the same with Diaz, and things some people don't seem to understand about the "Diaz style":

(1) It's foundation is his cardio/output rate/chin, and quality strike selection.

(2) He does not allow you to breath. You have to stay tight and tense when you are having to react to opponent strikes.

(4) He forces you to commit to a shell because one simply can't feint as often as he's throwing.

(5) Because of his wide and flat stance, he torques with quality power WHEN he decides to land hard shots.


So in essence, it is not that the Diaz style is good or bad. It is that he tailored it to his strengths. He has days of cardio, a strong chin, and high striking intelligence.

Nick Diaz and high striking intelligent does not go together. He had cardio and chin, but he is a one dimensional brawler who know bodyshots but no footworks, no headmovement, no jab, and whenever people arent willing to dance to his tune he throw a tantrum instead. And even calling Diaz a brawler is making the people who know how to brawl like Marcos Maidana a disservice.

 

[MilesAbove]

Nick Diaz and high striking intelligent does not go together. He had cardio and chin, but he is a one dimensional brawler who know bodyshots but no footworks, no headmovement, no jab, and whenever people arent willing to dance to his tune he throw a tantrum instead. And even calling Diaz a brawler is making the people who know how to brawl like Marcos Maidana a disservice.

I think your judgement is clouded by some bias against him. Because your "dissection" of his style is off.


And don't get me wrong, the guy falls off his lead-foot often, and his head movement is minimal as compared to boers. But he's not a boxer. His style, however, involves intelligent shot selection. It's not boxing-genius level. But compared to a high majority of MMA-fighters (aka, gym-combo robots) he utilizes his choices properly.

 

[Nuclearlandmine]

I think your judgement is clouded by some bias against him. Because your "dissection" of his style is off.


And don't get me wrong, the guy falls off his lead-foot often, and his head movement is minimal as compared to boers. But he's not a boxer. His style, however, involves intelligent shot selection. It's not boxing-genius level. But compared to a high majority of MMA-fighters (aka, gym-combo robots) he utilizes his choices properly.

You are just talking about one single facet now and tout it as something bigger than it actually is. Good shot selection? Ok. But high striking intelligence? Hell no. High striking intelligent is usually mean the ability to adapt and adjust. Nick Diaz had ZERO ability to adapt outside of his windmill-till-he-fall plan. And like i said before, he is and never was a boxer. Putting him next to "boxing" is just plain wrong.

 

[MilesAbove]

You are just talking about one single facet now and tout it as something bigger than it actually is. Good shot selection? Ok. But high striking intelligence? Hell no. High striking intelligent is usually mean the ability to adapt and adjust. Nick Diaz had ZERO ability to adapt outside of his windmill-till-he-fall plan. And like i said before, he is and never was a boxer. Putting him next to "boxing" is just plain wrong.

Which is why I didn't put him next to a boxer. And in those exchanges where he's "windmilling" he's selecting his combos. I know it's the in-thing to either think he's the next mma-to-boxer hope or a total street thug loser... but he's neither.

As I said, and was the point of my original post. He created a style that fit his strengths. If you want to argue unimportant syntax, talk to a wall.

 

[Nuclearlandmine]

Which is why I didn't put him next to a boxer. And in those exchanges where he's "windmilling" he's selecting his combos. I know it's the in-thing to either think he's the next mma-to-boxer hope or a total street thug loser... but he's neither.

As I said, and was the point of my original post. He created a style that fit his strengths. If you want to argue unimportant syntax, talk to a wall.

You touted him as having high striking intelligent by his shot selection. That's the only issue i addressed because that's not what it meant, not syntax.

 

[Tony Manifold]

You know, along with Wiz Cool not posting anymore and maybe die in a fire, it'd be nice if there isnt a thread about boxing and The Diaz Bros going together every few months. Now if it is about "Nick Diaz windmill style" or "Nick Diaz bitching style whenever no one want to trade with him", then it would be alright.

Would you have felt better if I called it a punching style? It isn't traditional boxing but it isn't just wild brawling either. It is a trained style. Which was the main point.

The video showed him training particular combinations the showed examples of him using those combinations in a fight.

I posted it in the standup forum rather than the boxing forum because it isn't about boxing, the sport, but rather the punching style of an mma fighter, which we commonly refer to as "boxing".

 

[Sinister]

Would you have felt better if I called it a punching style? It isn't traditional boxing but it isn't just wild brawling either. It is a trained style. Which was the main point.

The video showed him training particular combinations the showed examples of him using those combinations in a fight.

I posted it in the standup forum rather than the boxing forum because it isn't about boxing, the sport, but rather the punching style of an mma fighter, which we commonly refer to as "boxing".

Here's the discrepancy:

It WOULD be better called a "punching" style. The reason is, that's ALL it is. Boxing is not merely about punching, it's a craft of defending oneself and fighting using only the fists as weapons. By definition, Diaz is not a boxer, though obviously his trainers (let's not act as if this is his own invention, either) encourage elements taken from boxing and applied to his style of MMA. But there's little actual boxing in it. That's not to discredit what both of the brothers have accomplished with what they do, it's merely stating a fact. They've done quite a bit with this punching style, and it's VERY commendable in that facet. And yes, there actually are worse "pro boxers" out there. But I'd not call those guys boxers, either, had they not paid a license fee somewhere.

However, what people with an experienced eye see, is a guy beating up other guys with his punches, who have little clue how to defend themselves from those fairly simple tactics (albeit, tactics that never end and executed by a VERY durable guy). And sure, KJ Noons has some boxing experience, but realistically he's in MMA because he wasn't going to go further as a Boxer than he did. That said, he also holds a victory over Diaz, which in-large was accomplished through non co-operation.

 

[Jukai]

Is this thread gonna get completely derailed because boxing purists are upset with calling his style boxing? That's silly. He has a very high output with a lot of feigns, level changes and body attacks--- these things aren't seen a lot in the kickboxing/grappling environment of MMA. Now, he completely lacks anything that RESEMBLES defense.... but the whole thing is, he chooses to NOT focus on that because his chin is so ridiculous. It's an attribute of his style.

Sure, he'd be dropping UDs left and right to most journeymen in boxing, but you should appreciate the techniques he's taking from boxing and molded it to a style that has given him 26 wins in the UFC.

 

[Nuclearlandmine]

Is this thread gonna get completely derailed because boxing purists are upset with calling his style boxing? That's silly. He has a very high output with a lot of feigns, level changes and body attacks--- these things aren't seen a lot in the kickboxing/grappling environment of MMA. Now, he completely lacks anything that RESEMBLES defense.... but the whole thing is, he chooses to NOT focus on that because his chin is so ridiculous. It's an attribute of his style.

Sure, he'd be dropping UDs left and right to most journeymen in boxing, but you should appreciate the techniques he's taking from boxing and molded it to a style that has given him 26 wins in the UFC.

Wait what?
On a serious note, it is a pet peeve of mine whenever the object of Diaz bros and boxing come around. I know i have been banging that drum for quite sometime now. I'm not a purist and within MMA the Diaz bros are a different breed by themselves, but whenever people claimed that their "boxing" style and they have the best boxing evar I just can't let it go. And that's not just because he doesn't have a defense either.

 

[Jukai]

Wait what?

Whoops, 26 wins in MMA. Mah bad.

On a serious note, it is a pet peeve of mine whenever the object of Diaz bros and boxing come around. I know i have been banging that drum for quite sometime now. I'm not a purist and within MMA the Diaz bros are a different breed by themselves, but whenever people claimed that their "boxing" style and they have the best boxing evar I just can't let it go. And that's not just because he doesn't have a defense either.

They have very good boxing OFFENSE in MMA, regardless of their footwork deficiencies. A lot of his 'bad habits' that are in boxing (the way he short changing his punches, the way he flares his elbows, the way he doesn't really work his jab but still feigns the shit out of it to set up other punches) he does not because he thinks that is good boxing, but because it works in MMA.

 

[Nuclearlandmine]

Whoops, 26 wins in MMA. Mah bad.



They have very good boxing OFFENSE in MMA, regardless of their footwork deficiencies. A lot of his 'bad habits' that are in boxing (the way he short changing his punches, the way he flares his elbows, the way he doesn't really work his jab but still feigns the shit out of it to set up other punches) he does not because he thinks that is good boxing, but because it works in MMA.

Which is that. It works in MMA ONLY when the opponents collaborated/favorable match up with him. But it should NEVER be classified as boxing. Boxing in MMA have better representatives than Nick fucking Diaz.

 

[Tony Manifold]

Which is that. It works in MMA ONLY when the opponents collaborated/favorable match up with him. But it should NEVER be classified as boxing. Boxing in MMA have better representatives than Nick fucking Diaz.

By all means. The Diaz brothers are not the best boxers in mma. All the point of the video is that they are not wild brawlers but practice a distinct style.

 

[Nuclearlandmine]

By all means. The Diaz brothers are not the best boxers in mma. All the point of the video is that they are not wild brawlers but practice a distinct style.

Still deemed by some as "style of boxing", as in the OP. Now i'm just nit picking :icon_lol: Please carry on.

 

[Jukai]

Which is that. It works in MMA ONLY when the opponents collaborated/favorable match up with him. But it should NEVER be classified as boxing. Boxing in MMA have better representatives than Nick fucking Diaz.

Well, most of what people do in MMA wouldn't work in their respective combat arts. BJ Penn's constantly searching for the RNC is blue belt stuff; Machida is gonna lose in a JKA tournament fast if he constantly 'over-exaggerates' those feigns; a mid-level Thai fighter is just going to check all of Aldo's kicks and walk him down, and Anderson Silva would get stuck in a corner and pummeled if he stepped into the boxing ring.

I think the question is, did Nick Diaz just throw these punches randomly in sparring and eventually come up with a style that suited him working in an MMA gym, or did he actually train tirelessly in boxing and bastardize some principles for his benefit. I know it's the latter. It may not be functional boxing, but it came from boxing and it works.

 

[Nuclearlandmine]

Well, most of what people do in MMA wouldn't work in their respective combat arts. BJ Penn's constantly searching for the RNC is blue belt stuff; Machida is gonna lose in a JKA tournament fast if he constantly 'over-exaggerates' those feigns; a mid-level Thai fighter is just going to check all of Aldo's kicks and walk him down, and Anderson Silva would get stuck in a corner and pummeled if he stepped into the boxing ring.

I think the question is, did Nick Diaz just throw these punches randomly in sparring and eventually come up with a style that suited him working in an MMA gym, or did he actually train tirelessly in boxing and bastardize some principles for his benefit. I know it's the latter. It may not be functional boxing, but it came from boxing and it works.

But it really isn't. But hell, we are just going circle around here.

 

[Discipulus]

I don't like this notion that there is a difference between good boxing for boxing and good boxing for MMA. If it's good boxing it's good boxing, and if it isn't it isn't. It doesn't have to be good boxing to work, and there are plenty of bad boxers who could outbox good boxers, because that's the way fighting works. There's a lot more to a fight than technique.

For what it's worth, Nick's boxing isn't good. At all, really, but I would still call him a boxer, simply because he prefers to use his hands to strike, and indeed rarely attacks with anything else. No, he's not a good boxer, but there are lots of guys in the actual sport of boxing with garbage technique that get by on exceptional attributes. Nick Diaz is not a good boxer, but he is a tough and capable fighter who likes to box.

Also, ugly as his offense is, he certainly has a pretty reliable method when applying it. I think Nate is probably the better boxer technically speaking, though. He actually uses his reach.

 

[Discipulus]

But it really isn't. But hell, we are just going circle around here.

It definitely does come from boxing. Richard Perez is a boxing coach.

 

[Jukai]

I don't like this notion that there is a difference between good boxing for boxing and good boxing for MMA. If it's good boxing it's good boxing, and if it isn't it isn't. It doesn't have to be good boxing to work, and there are plenty of bad boxers who could outbox good boxers, because that's the way fighting works. There's a lot more to a fight than technique.

For what it's worth, Nick's boxing isn't good. At all, really, but I would still call him a boxer, simply because he prefers to use his hands to strike, and indeed rarely attacks with anything else. No, he's not a good boxer, but there are lots of guys in the actual sport of boxing with garbage technique that get by on exceptional attributes. Nick Diaz is not a good boxer, but he is a tough and capable fighter who likes to box.

Also, ugly as his offense is, he certainly has a pretty reliable method when applying it. I think Nate is probably the better boxer technically speaking, though. He actually uses his reach.

Nate has significantly better footwork too, and he uses it defensively.

Also, I'm... not sure if you are agreeing with me or disagreeing with me.

 

[Discipulus]

Nate has significantly better footwork too, and he uses it defensively.

Also, I'm... not sure if you are agreeing with me or disagreeing with me.

A little of both. I don't like the idea of "MMA boxing," but I also don't see how we can justify saying the Diaz brothers aren't boxers just because they're not good at boxing. The most unathletic kid on the Say soccer field is still a soccer player, and the guy with the shabbiest amateur record is still a boxer. The Diaz brothers not only like to box, but they're pretty effective with it, even if their styles are almost all offense and no defense, and their victims usually allow themselves to be pieced up.

 

[Sinister]

Is this thread gonna get completely derailed because boxing purists are upset with calling his style boxing? That's silly. He has a very high output with a lot of feigns, level changes and body attacks--- these things aren't seen a lot in the kickboxing/grappling environment of MMA. Now, he completely lacks anything that RESEMBLES defense.... but the whole thing is, he chooses to NOT focus on that because his chin is so ridiculous. It's an attribute of his style.

Sure, he'd be dropping UDs left and right to most journeymen in boxing, but you should appreciate the techniques he's taking from boxing and molded it to a style that has given him 26 wins in the UFC.

Derailed? No, the thread is about his style. Thus, comments about his "style of boxing" and evaluations thereof are absolutely warranted.