new ufc drug czar to personally tail fighters

[Zefram Cochrane]

Who needs a constitution after all

 

[Greco_Wiz]

Lol. Tell us where you are, 365 days a year. Every three months, fill out this form saying exactly what you will do every day. Oh and by the way, here is $2,500 for your total sponsorship money.

If they don't like these stipulations, they can always, you know, not voluntarily sign a contract with Zuffa. Just an idea.

 

[Ragnarocker]

Thats irrelevant to the argument. (Cycling is improving, far from clean but improving. Olympics? They havnt even tried)

The point isnt about UFC being a clean sport or not.

Its about the people employed as athletes at least wanting to try and do the right thing.

An athlete that accepts the whereabouts system is extra work but is happy to do it because they believe in clean sport, has my vote over an athlete who leaves the UFC because they have issues with the whereabouts system.

It's not irrelevant to the argument. Fighting in the UFC is already a low reward-to-risk endeavor with the meaningless ranking system, biased promotion, weird matchmaking, cronyism, sponsorship mess, bad judging, bad reffing, a president who will talk shit about you and throw you under the bus if you don't play ball, and now you have to tell them where you will be any hour every hour for 3 months at a time. It's all too much and that will drive more athletes away from a sport that already struggles to attract the A-level athletes.

 

[dim_]

It's not irrelevant to the argument. Fighting in the UFC is already a low reward-to-risk endeavor with the meaningless ranking system, biased promotion, weird matchmaking, cronyism, sponsorship mess, bad judging, bad reffing, a president who will talk shit about you and throw you under the bus if you don't play ball, and now you have to tell them where you will be any hour every hour for 3 months at a time. It's all too much and that will drive more athletes away from a sport that already struggles to attract the A-level athletes.

yes it is.

I said that I would rather have athletes dedicated to a clean sport than athletes that arent.

you responded by saying cycling and olympic sports arent clean.

Whather or not cycling is clean is irrelevant to the point of view that i would rather have athletes that are dedicated to clean sport.

Its a completely seperate argument.

Im saying, I would prefer athletes who are committed to clean sport

You say sport isnt clean

That doesnt mean I cant favor athletes who are committed to clean sport.



1) As far as the "every hour for 3 months" you clearly havnt read the multiple posts on this matter. THEY DO NOT HAVE TO INFORM OF WHERE THEY ARE EVERY HOUR FOR THREE MONTHS.

2) And where exactly are the UFC going to drive these athletes away to?

Tennis - already has whereabouts system
Soccer - already has whereabouts system
Judo - already has whereabouts system
Cycling - Already has whereabouts system
Any Olympic Sport - Already has whereabouts system

Where are these athletes going to go, virtually every major sport also has whereabouts system? Oh, I get it, NFL, MLB, NHL, where there is pretty much no testing.

Well guess what American sports are not the yardstick by which all sports are measured.

This is what you dont get, you say A-level athletes will leave MMA and go to other sports. PRETTY MUCH EVERY OTHER WORLDWIDE SPORT HAS WHEREABOUTS SYSTEM AS WELL!!!

As said before, if they want to leave the UFC because they find its anti doping system invasive, then see ya, dont let the door hit you on the arse.


My personal opinion. An athlete comes out and says "Yeh, it takes a bit of time but im happy to do what it takes to support clean sport", they get some level of faith from me. An athlete who says "this is a joke, its invasive, invades my civil rights" I would have pretty serious doubts about as a clean athlete. An athlete who quits an organisation over its anti doping policy.. well, I think you can guess.

 

[Ragnarocker]

yes it is.

I said that I would rather have athletes dedicated to a clean sport than athletes that arent.

you responded by saying cycling and olympic sports arent clean.

Whather or not cycling is clean is irrelevant to the point of view that i would rather have athletes that are dedicated to clean sport.

Its a completely seperate argument.

Im saying, I would prefer athletes who are committed to clean sport

You say sport isnt clean

That doesnt mean I cant favor athletes who are committed to clean sport.



1) As far as the "every hour for 3 months" you clearly havnt read the multiple posts on this matter. THEY DO NOT HAVE TO INFORM OF WHERE THEY ARE EVERY HOUR FOR THREE MONTHS.

2) And where exactly are the UFC going to drive these athletes away to?

Tennis - already has whereabouts system
Soccer - already has whereabouts system
Judo - already has whereabouts system
Cycling - Already has whereabouts system
Any Olympic Sport - Already has whereabouts system

Where are these athletes going to go, virtually every major sport also has whereabouts system? Oh, I get it, NFL, MLB, NHL, where there is pretty much no testing.

Well guess what American sports are not the yardstick by which all sports are measured.

This is what you dont get, you say A-level athletes will leave MMA and go to other sports. PRETTY MUCH EVERY OTHER WORLDWIDE SPORT HAS WHEREABOUTS SYSTEM AS WELL!!!

As said before, if they want to leave the UFC because they find its anti doping system invasive, then see ya, dont let the door hit you on the arse.

That's the problem though, even with these invasive procedures and requirements sports like cycling are not clean. You can be naive and believe they are clean but it's a part of the culture of that sport. Plenty of athletes will condemn PEDs publicly and applaud these invasive measures but that's only because they know what the fickle public wants to hear, not because they are angels with clear consciences. If they compete at the highest levels then they've been through the system from youth to pro and indoctrinated with the cheats and methods to win, which usually mean PEDs and other scams which the general public don't know about because they just expect world class results and performances without knowing or caring exactly how grueling and tortuous (and possibly inhuman) it is to get there.

 

[rioman69]

More inane bullshit stemming from the failed War on Drugs. Guilty until proven innocent is becoming the standard these days. Way to go UFC.

 

[CrashStitches]

MMA fans, oh my god. "This sport is fucking ROTTEN with roid cheats!" A promotion gets dead fuckin serious about doping, and it's "Dana fucking White and his Nazi shit!"

I don't know why any businessman would sink a dollar into MMA. The fans hate the fucking sport.

 

[CrashStitches]

You're missing the point. It's not the inconvenience of having to track your whereabouts, its the invasion of privacy and being treated like a criminal under house arrest that is messed up.

That's not how it works, man. Professional athletes at high levels are required to do a lot of things you don't know about. Now that UFC fighters are bona fide pro athletes approaching mainstream success, they're involved in these kinds of things. Ask the NFL players how much control the team that pays them millions exerts over them? Athletes are an investment to numerous parties, including the athlete himself. The UFC has just been operating in a Wild West mode for its entire existence, but now that significant restrictions are coming in like other sports, MMA fans are becoming sociologists and political scholars.

 

[CrashStitches]

what on earth are you on about

Anyone who presents a cogent position that favors something the UFC said is automatically dismissed as a Zuffa-paid poster (which, to be fair, actually exist).

 

[CrashStitches]

Quantity doesn't make up for quality.

Then STFU and deal with rules that the quality org is enforcing to keep the sport clean. Beggars do not = choosers, for fuck's sake. MMA fans are the shittiest-panted brats of any sport.

 

[Th3 Gr38 1]

There are no clean sports. I fear that this mentality will spread out of the UFC to other sports and ruin them as well.

 

[Ragnarocker]

Then STFU and deal with rules that the quality org is enforcing to keep the sport clean. Beggars do not = choosers, for fuck's sake. MMA fans are the shittiest-panted brats of any sport.

You children are so naive, thinking these "rules" will clean up the sport when in actuality it will just support the status quo. Ever wonder why all the brown folks get "randomly selected" for additional screening at the airport? It's hardly a random system at all and as such doesn't improve on the quality of MMA fighters. I'm not saying something doesn't need to be done, I'm saying this method seems too intrusive and Orwellian.

 

[CrashStitches]

You children are so naive, thinking these "rules" will clean up the sport when in actuality it will just support the status quo. Ever wonder why all the brown folks get "randomly selected" for additional screening at the airport? It's hardly a random system at all and as such doesn't improve on the quality of MMA fighters. I'm not saying something doesn't need to be done, I'm saying this method seems too intrusive and Orwellian.

LOL, what utter, conjecture-laced bullshit.

 

[Ragnarocker]

LOL, what utter, conjecture-laced bullshit.

Like I said, you're very naive to think anything like that is equitable and fair. You probably don't think star players never get special treatment from the refs or that Herb Dean gives star fighters longer to recover or is quicker to end a fight they are winning.

 

[dim_]

That's the problem though, even with these invasive procedures and requirements sports like cycling are not clean. You can be naive and believe they are clean but it's a part of the culture of that sport. Plenty of athletes will condemn PEDs publicly and applaud these invasive measures but that's only because they know what the fickle public wants to hear, not because they are angels with clear consciences. If they compete at the highest levels then they've been through the system from youth to pro and indoctrinated with the cheats and methods to win, which usually mean PEDs and other scams which the general public don't know about because they just expect world class results and performances without knowing or caring exactly how grueling and tortuous (and possibly inhuman) it is to get there.

But whether its clean or not is besides the sport. No sport, despite the best efforts of everyone in anti doping will ever be clean, so do we just not bother?

Thats an entirely seperate conversation.

You are saying athletes will leave the UFC because the whereabouts system is invasive and draconian. Im saying, let them leave, I would rather have athletes in the UFC that are willing to go along with the measures because they believe in clean sport (even if that isnt what we ultimately have - there are doping athletes who will be anti ped and pro measures because they know how to beat the tests, but again, thats another debate entirely)

Im not arguing whether the system will work or not, thats an entirely seperate debate.

Im saying, if people dont like the new measures and want to leave the UFC because of it. Fuck em.

 

[dim_]

Anyone who presents a cogent position that favors something the UFC said is automatically dismissed as a Zuffa-paid poster (which, to be fair, actually exist).

Gotcha. In cycling circles we had "interns".

Lance Armstrongs business partners created a PR agency BizarreVoice (yes really). They in turn (see what i did there) had a ton of interns they used to peddle the pro armstrong message on message boards and social media and harrang anyone that was anti armstrong.

 

[dim_]

There are no clean sports. I fear that this mentality will spread out of the UFC to other sports and ruin them as well.

Spread to other sports? UFC is one of the last sports to actually be "ruined" by this mentality.

Tennis, Cycling, Athletics, Track and Field, Swimming, Equestrian, Bowling (crown green not ten pin), sailing, shooting, you name it theyve already been ruined by these draconian measures

 

[Ragnarocker]

But whether its clean or not is besides the sport. No sport, despite the best efforts of everyone in anti doping will ever be clean, so do we just not bother?

Thats an entirely seperate conversation.

You are saying athletes will leave the UFC because the whereabouts system is invasive and draconian. Im saying, let them leave, I would rather have athletes in the UFC that are willing to go along with the measures because they believe in clean sport (even if that isnt what we ultimately have - there are doping athletes who will be anti ped and pro measures because they know how to beat the tests, but again, thats another debate entirely)

Im not arguing whether the system will work or not, thats an entirely seperate debate.

Im saying, if people dont like the new measures and want to leave the UFC because of it. Fuck em.

As I said, I'm not saying they shouldn't try to clean up the sport, this is just not the way to do it. They've already imposed heavy suspensions and fines if you are caught using PEDs. Is that not enough to get athletes clean so now they burden all fighters, clean or otherwise, with this tracking system? Where does it end? In the end it will just make it so those who cannot afford to cheat the system are punished and those who can (the stars making the money and who have Dana and co making excuses for them) will continue to do so.

 

[Godzilla3232]

Who's going to tail the other fighters while he's living with Vitor for the next couple years?

 

[dim_]

As I said, I'm not saying they shouldn't try to clean up the sport, this is just not the way to do it. They've already imposed heavy suspensions and fines if you are caught using PEDs. Is that not enough to get athletes clean so now they burden all fighters, clean or otherwise, with this tracking system? Where does it end? In the end it will just make it so those who cannot afford to cheat the system are punished and those who can (the stars making the money and who have Dana and co making excuses for them) will continue to do so.

Its not a tracking system, christ, they just have to fill out enough information that they can be reached for random testing. And no, they havnt imposed heavy suspensions. UFC suspensions will be 2 years, standard ban in sport is now 4 years.

ok, how do you suggest USADA conduct random testing if they dont know where athletes will be?