International [NATO News] Putin: lifting Ukraine missile restrictions would "put NATO at war with Russia"

[curryjunkie]

Honestly wouldn't surprise me one bit if Erdogan was in on it as well.

I do agree with Turkey that all NATO talks should cease, permanently, there is no way that we can be militarily allied with such dishonest actors, who represent the kind of threat to their neighbours that we are seeking to defend ourselves from. Morally, it is impossible to justify being aligned with Turkey, while denouncing Russia.

Best plan going forward, for Finland and Sweden, is to make alliances between individual states. NATO is a crippled, rigid construct that struggles to remain united due to the changing circumstances from half a century ago. Its internal division and inefficiency to operate has already been exposed, no reason whatsoever to proceed any further while humiliating ourselves as a bunch of beggars seeking to be validated by a foreign dictator.

nah disagree with all of that

 

[shinkyoku]

Finlands foreign minister accused Rasmus Paludan (the guy who burned the Koran in Sweden) and Paudans financier, of having connections, and working for 3rd parties opposed to Finland and Sweden joining NATO. Poudans financier, Chang Frick, is married to a Russian national, and freelance contributor to Russia Today. RT being a well known russian propaganda channel now blocked in most of europe.

The US think-thank Robert Lansing Institute, are on record of accusing Paudlan of being a russian useful idiot, and Frick of doing errands for, or being a direct agent of, Russian intelligence.

Finlands foreign minister comments on this as being inexcusable.

 

[Arkain2K]

U.S. Congress says F-16 sale to Turkey depends on NATO approval
By Humeyra Pamuk | Feb 2, 2023

WASHINGTON, Feb 2 (Reuters) - The U.S. Congress cannot support the $20 billion sale of F-16 fighter jets to Turkey until Ankara ratifies the NATO memberships of Sweden and Finland, a bipartisan group of senators said on Thursday.

Sweden and Finland applied last year to join the trans-Atlantic defense pact after Russia invaded Ukraine, but faced unexpected objections from Turkey and have since sought to win its support.

Ankara wants Helsinki and Stockholm in particular to take a tougher line against the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK), which is considered a terror group by Turkey and the European Union, and another group it blames for a 2016 coup attempt.

The three nations reached an agreement on a way forward in Madrid last June, but Ankara suspended talks last month following protests in Stockholm in which a far-right Danish politician burned a copy of the Muslim holy book, the Koran.

In a letter to President Joe Biden, 29 Democratic and Republican senators said the two Nordic countries were making "full and good faith efforts" to meet the conditions for NATO membership that Turkey asked, even though Ankara says Sweden needs to do more.

"Once the NATO accession protocols are ratified by Türkiye, Congress can consider the sale of F-16 fighter jets. A failure to do so, however, would call into question this pending sale," the senators wrote.

It was the first time Congress explicitly and directly linked the F-16 sale to Turkey with the NATO accession bids of the two Nordic countries.

The Biden administration has repeatedly said it supports the sale and refused to link the two issues, although it acknowledged that the ratification of Sweden and Finland's NATO accession would facilitate the sale process in Congress.

Turkey has said it could approve Finland's NATO membership application ahead of Sweden's, but the Finnish president and foreign minister have both rejected this idea, arguing that the security of the two Nordic countries is mutually dependent.

Of NATO's 30 members, only Turkey and Hungary have yet to ratify the Nordic countries' memberships.

Turkey requested in October 2021 to buy 40 Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N) F-16 fighters and nearly 80 modernization kits for its existing warplanes.

In a visit to Washington last month, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said the NATO issue should not be a precondition for the sale and urged the Biden administration to persuade Congress to drop its objection.

While Congress can block foreign arms sales, it has not previously mustered the two-thirds majorities in both chambers required to overcome a presidential veto.

https://www.reuters.com/business/ae...to-approval-2023-02-02/?utm_source=reddit.com

 

[Arkain2K]

 

[aries]

Good fuck Turkey playing games. We should kick them out and replace them with Finland, Sweden and Ukraine. They'd be far more useful than those bunch of cunts.

 

[Halge]

Poudans financier, Chang Frick,

Finland's foreign minister is apparently retarded. The only connection between Paludan and Chang Frick is that Frick forked out the approximately 30 dollars that a demonstration permit costs, mostly for a lark. Finland's retarded foreign minister should cease spreading misinformation.


On the subject of Sweden's NATO application process: It appears the Swedish Pollce has decided to do what some of us has feared and suspected since the quran riots of April-May 2022. They've instituted an informal blanket ban on all demonstrations where quran burnings are included. This is NOT in line with Swedish jurisdiction, as has been tested in court several times. And police is not denying demonstrations based on the grounds that they are unlawful (like, say, they constitute a hate crime), but on the grounds that they lead to increased nationwide risk of terror attacks.

Is it the responsibility of the police force to protect our free speech rights? Yes.
Is it the responsibility of the police force to protect us, and our basic freedoms, against terror attacks? Yes.
Have the terror threats been specified? No.
Have any arrests of people suspected of planning terrorist attacks been made? No.
Is it entirely possible that police and security service is making this threat up completely in order to facilitate the NATO application process? Yes, very much so. Given the complete lack of specific information or actual actions taken, in a situation where such is usually given, it is in fact the more likely explanation.

If prime minister Kristersson wants to keep sucking Erdogan´s d*ck he's free to do so, but I do wish he wouldn't sell out his people's constitutional rights in the process. I also wish we didn't have a police force that has implemented systematic extrajudicial blasphemy proscription, and can't even be up front about it.

The police have again refused permission for a Koran burning - this time outside the Iraqi embassy. The decision is motivated by the fact that the protest could lead to an increased terrorist threat against Sweden.

According to the application, the public assembly would have taken place on Monday, but the police refused permission. The decision refers to the risk that Koran burnings could lead to acts of terrorism against Sweden.

"Overall, the Security Police assesses that Koran burnings have increased and may increase in the future, the threat of attacks against Sweden and Swedish interests in the short term," says the decision from the Stockholm Police Region.

No concrete danger at the gathering
It is the second time in a short time that the police have refused permission for the same reason. A couple of days earlier, they said no to a Koran burning outside the Turkish embassy.

In both cases, the Police Authority states that there is nothing to indicate that serious disturbances could occur during the protest itself.

"If this becomes indicative, demonstrations will be sparing in the future," says freedom of expression expert Nils Funcke about the police's decision to stop a demonstration outside the Turkish embassy.

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/polisen-nekade-tillstand-for-koranbranning-igen

 

[AWilder]

Finland's foreign minister is apparently retarded. The only connection between Paludan and Chang Frick is that Frick forked out the approximately 30 dollars that a demonstration permit costs, mostly for a lark. Finland's retarded foreign minister should cease spreading misinformation.


On the subject of Sweden's NATO application process: It appears the Swedish Pollce has decided to do what some of us has feared and suspected since the quran riots of April-May 2022. They've instituted an informal blanket ban on all demonstrations where quran burnings are included. This is NOT in line with Swedish jurisdiction, as has been tested in court several times. And police is not denying demonstrations based on the grounds that they are unlawful (like, say, they constitute a hate crime), but on the grounds that they lead to increased nationwide risk of terror attacks.

Is it the responsibility of the police force to protect our free speech rights? Yes.
Is it the responsibility of the police force to protect us, and our basic freedoms, against terror attacks? Yes.
Have the terror threats been specified? No.
Have any arrests of people suspected of planning terrorist attacks been made? No.
Is it entirely possible that police and security service is making this threat up completely in order to facilitate the NATO application process? Yes, very much so. Given the complete lack of specific information or actual actions taken, in a situation where such is usually given, it is in fact the more likely explanation.

If prime minister Kristersson wants to keep sucking Erdogan´s d*ck he's free to do so, but I do wish he wouldn't sell out his people's constitutional rights in the process. I also wish we didn't have a police force that has implemented systematic extrajudicial blasphemy proscription, and can't even be up front about it.




https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/polisen-nekade-tillstand-for-koranbranning-igen

First they came for the Koran burners, and i did nothing, for i am not a Koran burner...

 

[Halge]

First they came for the Koran burners, and i did nothing, for i am not a Koran burner...

The formal documents detailing the decision(s) use pretty obviously backwards reasoning.
I ran the latest refusal through google translate. See below. It's a long document, but I've highlighted the most important parts in orange if anyone's interested in getting a qualitative view into the minds of Swedish lawmen. Basically, if anyone threatens to blow us up we must do what they want. Forever and ever and ever...

Spoiler: Peace in our time

Decision regarding the application for permission to organize public
gathering
Decision

The police authority decides to reject your application for permission to organize a public gathering in Stockholm on February 13, 2023.

Background and legal regulation

On 6 February 2023, you submitted an application for permission to organize a public event
meeting in Stockholm on 13 February 2023 at 13.00-14.00 outside Iraq
embassy, Baldersgatan 6A, B, 114 27 Stockholm. You state that you want to express
your opinion and demonstrate in front of the Iraqi embassy in Stockholm and that
you will burn the Koran because it is a danger to society and fighting
against international laws, freedoms and democracy. Furthermore, you specify that it should only
be you but that you expect about 50 participants.
Of ch. 2 Section 10 first paragraph of the Ordinance Act (1993:1617) follows that permission to
a general assembly may be refused only if it is necessary for consideration
to the order or safety of the gathering or, as a direct consequence
of it, in its immediate surroundings or with regard to traffic or to
prevent epidemic.
The term "at the meeting" has been given a narrow application. The preparations for
the form of government and the law of order, however, provide some support for not only
the order and safety among the particular people participating in the gathering
but also order and security problems that simultaneously arise in the immediate surroundings of the gathering, and are a direct consequence of it, can lie
as a basis for restrictions on freedom of assembly and demonstration.

The provision in ch. 2 In other words, section 10 of the Public Order Act opens the way for
an application for a general assembly in exceptional cases can be rejected on gmnd by
circumstances that cannot be blamed on the organizer of the general meeting. The purpose of the provision is, according to the coinment, that it should
can be applied for a more general preventive purpose. However, a concrete one is required
risk of disruption in order for it to be applied and the provision is intended
to be used only in extreme exceptional cases.
The police authority has received information from the Security Police which
states that perceived violations against Muslims and Islam, in recent
just over ten years, generated threats against both intended targets in Sweden and Swedish
interests abroad. Perceived violations have been the motive of perpetrators
carried out attacks and in planned attacks. Koran burning outside Turkey
embassy in January 2023 can be found to have acted as a threat to both
Swedish society at large, but also towards Sweden, Swedish interests abroad
and Swedes abroad. The threat is not based solely on isolated events and
individuals but also from an aggregated picture of Sweden as a nation. Thereto
the Security Police handles threats from international terrorist actors against Sweden
and Swedish interests. Sweden has become a more prioritized target for attacks.
Overall, the Security Police assesses that Koran burnings in themselves have increased and
going forward, the threat of attacks against Sweden and Swedish interests may increase
in short term.
A characteristic of terrorist crimes is that this type of crime can occur basically anywhere
at any rate, when the purpose of the crime i.a. is to instill serious fear in one
population. In other words, the crime of terrorism is characterized by terrorist acts taking place
indiscriminately. In contrast to other kinds of serious disturbances of order
and security, you therefore often cannot predict where a terrorist crime will take place
room. Even if the general assembly proceeds peacefully, one can
terrorist crimes, therefore - as a direct consequence of the gathering - are committed against someone
another place. Thus, it does not necessarily matter about the general
the meeting is held at a different location than the one to which the application relates.
The police authority's assessment
In light of the assessment that the Security Police has made of it
impact on the threat of attacks against Sweden and Swedish interests that a Koran burning entails, the Police Authority considers that public order and
security as a result of the planned gathering will not be able to
guaranteed.

Admittedly, there are no concrete circumstances that indicate that it can
serious disturbances of the order or security of it will occur
general assembly or in its immediate surroundings. In the Police Authority's assessment, however, the authority weighs the risk of terrorist attacks
which may occur in other parts of Sweden or against Swedish interests
abroad. The police authority considers in this part that the underlying purpose
with the provision in ch. 2 Section 10 of the Public Order Act is that the police must be able to
prevent serious disturbances of public order and security which
a general assembly may lead to. In this case, as stated above,
information that shows that Koran burnings have been found to be threatening
both Swedish society at large but also towards Sweden, Swedish interests
abroad and Swedes abroad. Although, in light of the terrorist threat
nature, it cannot be said that the terrorist threat will be realized just in the immediate
the proximity of the planned public gathering, the Police Authority believes
that there are conditions to still consider the terrorist threat in the examination according to
the ordinance that is made.
In the proportionality assessment that must always precede a decision like that
now relevant, the Police Authority takes note of the fact that a rejection order according to the provision in ch. 2. Section 10 of the Public Order Act is "consideration of traffic".
It cannot have been the legislator's intention that a demonstration should be denied
because it can cause serious traffic disruption but not because
terrorist threat.
Terrorist threats cannot be prevented by e.g. increased security or barriers at the general assembly. The authority does not see that either
the threat of attack would be reduced if the gathering is held in another location.
All in all, according to the Police Authority, it is necessary to refuse you permission
to the requested demonstration. The application must therefore be rejected.

THE POLICE AUTHORITY
Erik Widstrand
For example Deputy Regional Police Chief

Je suis Charlie.

 

[AWilder]

The formal documents detailing the decision(s) use pretty obviously backwards reasoning.
I ran the latest denial through google translate. See below. It's a long document, but I've highlighted the most important parts in orange if anyone's interested in getting a qualitative view into the minds of Swedish lawmen. Basically, if anyone threatens to blow us up we must do what they want. Forever and ever and ever...

Spoiler: Peace in our time

Decision regarding the application for permission to organize public
gathering
Decision

The police authority decides to reject your application for permission to organize a public gathering in Stockholm on February 13, 2023.

Background and legal regulation

On 6 February 2023, you submitted an application for permission to organize a public event
meeting in Stockholm on 13 February 2023 at 13.00-14.00 outside Iraq
embassy, Baldersgatan 6A, B, 114 27 Stockholm. You state that you want to express
your opinion and demonstrate in front of the Iraqi embassy in Stockholm and that
you will burn the Koran because it is a danger to society and fighting
against international laws, freedoms and democracy. Furthermore, you specify that it should only
be you but that you expect about 50 participants.
Of ch. 2 Section 10 first paragraph of the Ordinance Act (1993:1617) follows that permission to
a general assembly may be refused only if it is necessary for consideration
to the order or safety of the gathering or, as a direct consequence
of it, in its immediate surroundings or with regard to traffic or to
prevent epidemic.
The term "at the meeting" has been given a narrow application. The preparations for
the form of government and the law of order, however, provide some support for not only
the order and safety among the particular people participating in the gathering
but also order and security problems that simultaneously arise in the immediate surroundings of the gathering, and are a direct consequence of it, can lie
as a basis for restrictions on freedom of assembly and demonstration.

The provision in ch. 2 In other words, section 10 of the Public Order Act opens the way for
an application for a general assembly in exceptional cases can be rejected on gmnd by
circumstances that cannot be blamed on the organizer of the general meeting. The purpose of the provision is, according to the coinment, that it should
can be applied for a more general preventive purpose. However, a concrete one is required
risk of disruption in order for it to be applied and the provision is intended
to be used only in extreme exceptional cases.
The police authority has received information from the Security Police which
states that perceived violations against Muslims and Islam, in recent
just over ten years, generated threats against both intended targets in Sweden and Swedish
interests abroad. Perceived violations have been the motive of perpetrators
carried out attacks and in planned attacks. Koran burning outside Turkey
embassy in January 2023 can be found to have acted as a threat to both
Swedish society at large, but also towards Sweden, Swedish interests abroad
and Swedes abroad. The threat is not based solely on isolated events and
individuals but also from an aggregated picture of Sweden as a nation. Thereto
the Security Police handles threats from international terrorist actors against Sweden
and Swedish interests. Sweden has become a more prioritized target for attacks.
Overall, the Security Police assesses that Koran burnings in themselves have increased and
going forward, the threat of attacks against Sweden and Swedish interests may increase
in short term.
A characteristic of terrorist crimes is that this type of crime can occur basically anywhere
at any rate, when the purpose of the crime i.a. is to instill serious fear in one
population. In other words, the crime of terrorism is characterized by terrorist acts taking place
indiscriminately. In contrast to other kinds of serious disturbances of order
and security, you therefore often cannot predict where a terrorist crime will take place
room. Even if the general assembly proceeds peacefully, one can
terrorist crimes, therefore - as a direct consequence of the gathering - are committed against someone
another place. Thus, it does not necessarily matter about the general
the meeting is held at a different location than the one to which the application relates.
The police authority's assessment
In light of the assessment that the Security Police has made of it
impact on the threat of attacks against Sweden and Swedish interests that a Koran burning entails, the Police Authority considers that public order and
security as a result of the planned gathering will not be able to
guaranteed.

Admittedly, there are no concrete circumstances that indicate that it can
serious disturbances of the order or security of it will occur
general assembly or in its immediate surroundings. In the Police Authority's assessment, however, the authority weighs the risk of terrorist attacks
which may occur in other parts of Sweden or against Swedish interests
abroad. The police authority considers in this part that the underlying purpose
with the provision in ch. 2 Section 10 of the Public Order Act is that the police must be able to
prevent serious disturbances of public order and security which
a general assembly may lead to. In this case, as stated above,
information that shows that Koran burnings have been found to be threatening
both Swedish society at large but also towards Sweden, Swedish interests
abroad and Swedes abroad. Although, in light of the terrorist threat
nature, it cannot be said that the terrorist threat will be realized just in the immediate
the proximity of the planned public gathering, the Police Authority believes
that there are conditions to still consider the terrorist threat in the examination according to
the ordinance that is made.
In the proportionality assessment that must always precede a decision like that
now relevant, the Police Authority takes note of the fact that a rejection order according to the provision in ch. 2. Section 10 of the Public Order Act is "consideration of traffic".
It cannot have been the legislator's intention that a demonstration should be denied
because it can cause serious traffic disruption but not because
terrorist threat.
Terrorist threats cannot be prevented by e.g. increased security or barriers at the general assembly. The authority does not see that either
the threat of attack would be reduced if the gathering is held in another location.
All in all, according to the Police Authority, it is necessary to refuse you permission
to the requested demonstration. The application must therefore be rejected.

THE POLICE AUTHORITY
Erik Widstrand
For example Deputy Regional Police Chief

i just skimmed it but seems like common sense. The koran burners are trying to start a riot, most places it's illegal to incite a riot/violence.

 

[Halge]

If anyone itt wants to send tips about this to their local newspapers (be they British, American, Indian et cetera), I think that would be great. Personally I think the complete and utter spinelessness of Swedish authorities in the face of (alleged) terrorist threats is worthy of international attention. I mean, our police force is stating outright that if you threaten us, we will cave. Consistently.

 

[Halge]

i just skimmed it but seems like common sense. The koran burners are trying to start a riot,

Lol, ok dude. It has nothing to do with protesting the fact that muslims literally believe quran burnings should be a capital offence.

most places it's illegal to incite a riot/violence.

You saying that's its purpose, will not make it so. No matter how many times, or across how many different social media platforms, you repeat it.

 

[AWilder]

Lol, ok dude. It has nothing to do with protesting the fact that muslims literally believe quran burnings should be a capital offence.

Do they not have a right to hold that belief? Or do they not get the same free speech rights in sweden?

You saying that's its purpose, will not make it so. No matter how many times, or across how many different social media platforms, you repeat it.

im in america, it's illegal to start a riot. maybe you've followed the news here for the past few years, it's kind of been a thing.

 

[Rod1]

U.S. Congress says F-16 sale to Turkey depends on NATO approval
By Humeyra Pamuk | Feb 2, 2023

WASHINGTON, Feb 2 (Reuters) - The U.S. Congress cannot support the $20 billion sale of F-16 fighter jets to Turkey until Ankara ratifies the NATO memberships of Sweden and Finland, a bipartisan group of senators said on Thursday.

Sweden and Finland applied last year to join the trans-Atlantic defense pact after Russia invaded Ukraine, but faced unexpected objections from Turkey and have since sought to win its support.

Ankara wants Helsinki and Stockholm in particular to take a tougher line against the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK), which is considered a terror group by Turkey and the European Union, and another group it blames for a 2016 coup attempt.

The three nations reached an agreement on a way forward in Madrid last June, but Ankara suspended talks last month following protests in Stockholm in which a far-right Danish politician burned a copy of the Muslim holy book, the Koran.

In a letter to President Joe Biden, 29 Democratic and Republican senators said the two Nordic countries were making "full and good faith efforts" to meet the conditions for NATO membership that Turkey asked, even though Ankara says Sweden needs to do more.

"Once the NATO accession protocols are ratified by Türkiye, Congress can consider the sale of F-16 fighter jets. A failure to do so, however, would call into question this pending sale," the senators wrote.

It was the first time Congress explicitly and directly linked the F-16 sale to Turkey with the NATO accession bids of the two Nordic countries.

The Biden administration has repeatedly said it supports the sale and refused to link the two issues, although it acknowledged that the ratification of Sweden and Finland's NATO accession would facilitate the sale process in Congress.

Turkey has said it could approve Finland's NATO membership application ahead of Sweden's, but the Finnish president and foreign minister have both rejected this idea, arguing that the security of the two Nordic countries is mutually dependent.

Of NATO's 30 members, only Turkey and Hungary have yet to ratify the Nordic countries' memberships.

Turkey requested in October 2021 to buy 40 Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N) F-16 fighters and nearly 80 modernization kits for its existing warplanes.

In a visit to Washington last month, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said the NATO issue should not be a precondition for the sale and urged the Biden administration to persuade Congress to drop its objection.

While Congress can block foreign arms sales, it has not previously mustered the two-thirds majorities in both chambers required to overcome a presidential veto.

https://www.reuters.com/business/ae...to-approval-2023-02-02/?utm_source=reddit.com

Finally bipartisan balls.

Turkey used to play the "Don't sell me and ill buy Russian gear" card before, that card sure as fuck doesn't looks as hot right now.

 

[Rod1]

If prime minister Kristersson wants to keep sucking Erdogan´s d*ck he's free to do so, but I do wish he wouldn't sell out his people's constitutional rights in the process. I also wish we didn't have a police force that has implemented systematic extrajudicial blasphemy proscription, and can't even be up front about it.

Meh, they are not criminalizing it, just preventing it from using a public protest, considering the size and threats that Europeans countries face its kind of understandable.

Its not optimal but it is what it is.

 

[Halge]

Do they not have a right to hold that belief? Or do they not get the same free speech rights in sweden?


im in america, it's illegal to start a riot. maybe you've followed the news here for the past few years, it's kind of been a thing.

Troll confirmed.
I'm just going to go ahead and put you on my Ignore list.

 

[SandisLL]

Do they not have a right to hold that belief? Or do they not get the same free speech rights in sweden?





im in america, it's illegal to start a riot. maybe you've followed the news here for the past few years, it's kind of been a thing.

Well, In Sweden they sometimes are burning also bibles and catehism books.
This is to some extent blasphemy for Christians and still....
Lawmakers are doing the same as if quran had been burned.....
Literally....nothing....

Pics with Jesus and bibles had been burned, catehism brochures and books...

It Imho depends from country and current laws....
We f.e can't to burn even newspapers, wood etc on the street or public place in cities....without special permit...
If will do then for this are pargraphs in administrative codex and fines for this.... + record ( administrative offenses like criminal court cases does have register and it is important if you will apply for firearm's permit or to compete for some certain jobs etc. ).

 

[Boxiana]

U.S. Congress says F-16 sale to Turkey depends on NATO approval
By Humeyra Pamuk | Feb 2, 2023

WASHINGTON, Feb 2 (Reuters) - The U.S. Congress cannot support the $20 billion sale of F-16 fighter jets to Turkey until Ankara ratifies the NATO memberships of Sweden and Finland, a bipartisan group of senators said on Thursday.

Sweden and Finland applied last year to join the trans-Atlantic defense pact after Russia invaded Ukraine, but faced unexpected objections from Turkey and have since sought to win its support.

Ankara wants Helsinki and Stockholm in particular to take a tougher line against the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK), which is considered a terror group by Turkey and the European Union, and another group it blames for a 2016 coup attempt.

The three nations reached an agreement on a way forward in Madrid last June, but Ankara suspended talks last month following protests in Stockholm in which a far-right Danish politician burned a copy of the Muslim holy book, the Koran.

In a letter to President Joe Biden, 29 Democratic and Republican senators said the two Nordic countries were making "full and good faith efforts" to meet the conditions for NATO membership that Turkey asked, even though Ankara says Sweden needs to do more.

"Once the NATO accession protocols are ratified by Türkiye, Congress can consider the sale of F-16 fighter jets. A failure to do so, however, would call into question this pending sale," the senators wrote.

It was the first time Congress explicitly and directly linked the F-16 sale to Turkey with the NATO accession bids of the two Nordic countries.

The Biden administration has repeatedly said it supports the sale and refused to link the two issues, although it acknowledged that the ratification of Sweden and Finland's NATO accession would facilitate the sale process in Congress.

Turkey has said it could approve Finland's NATO membership application ahead of Sweden's, but the Finnish president and foreign minister have both rejected this idea, arguing that the security of the two Nordic countries is mutually dependent.

Of NATO's 30 members, only Turkey and Hungary have yet to ratify the Nordic countries' memberships.

Turkey requested in October 2021 to buy 40 Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N) F-16 fighters and nearly 80 modernization kits for its existing warplanes.

In a visit to Washington last month, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said the NATO issue should not be a precondition for the sale and urged the Biden administration to persuade Congress to drop its objection.

While Congress can block foreign arms sales, it has not previously mustered the two-thirds majorities in both chambers required to overcome a presidential veto.

https://www.reuters.com/business/ae...to-approval-2023-02-02/?utm_source=reddit.com

The only way to get anything out of Erdogan is to play him at his own game. He is a master of it though, so I’m sure he’ll wring some concessions out of this before it’s all over.

 

[Halge]

Its not optimal but it is what it is.

It's not even legal*.
As in, the police is breaking the law when they deny demo applications of this nature. The issue was taken to court after the Quran riots, and on a number of occasions both before and since.
Courts have ruled numerous times that the right to demonstrate and burn the quran is basically non-negotiable. In extreme circumstances, certain localities can be disallowed for a demonstration to take place in. But what the police is doing now is consistently determining the geographical entirety of Sweden is disallowed**.
Cops know they don't actually have the authority to do this, and they know they'll get rebuked (retroactively) in court over it. But for whatever reason courts are unable to actually do anything beyond rebuking, and the cops know this too. They'll just continue to break the law, and get overruled in court... six months later, once the case gets handled. Apparently not even the fact that the police commit the crime knowingly and with premeditation allows the courts to sentence anything beyond a light slap on the wrist.

As for the "threat" - now that Quran burnings have become a virtual weekly occurence, and they no longer generate much unrest, and the national security service is unable to even specify the type of threat we're facing in concrete terms, and no arrests have been made.... well, then there is no threat. If it quacks like a duck, et cetera.



*It is in fact essentially martial law.
**Far as I know, last time we made such restrictions the nazis were in power in Germany.

 

[AWilder]

Troll confirmed.
I'm just going to go ahead and put you on my Ignore list.

how very free speech of you lmao.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Turkey says it is "meaningless" to restore NATO dialogue with Sweden, Finland

Turkey’s Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu

ANKARA, Jan 26 (Reuters) - Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said on Thursday it was "meaningless" to hold a trilateral meeting with Sweden and Finland to discuss their NATO bids after protests this month in Stockholm.

Speaking at a news conference, Cavusoglu also said there is no offer to evaluate Sweden's and Finland's NATO membership seperately.

Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson has said his country wanted to restore NATO dialogue with Turkey after Ankara indefinitely postponed trilateral talks with Sweden and Finland over their membership.

https://www.reuters.com/world/turke...nato-dialogue-with-sweden-finland-2023-01-26/

This is a country that jails citizens for criticizing the despot. They're a major player in the region but if they're going to demand unreasonable concessions it might be time to take a look at how to eject them from the treaty. It might push them into the Chinese and Russian sphere of influence but sometimes an amputation is necessary to avoid the rot from spreading.