Muay Thai vs Neo Footwork

[CFGroup]

God MT is simple! But that's the watered down sport version of Muay Boran. MMA's gotta ditch the simpleton easy to learn MT bum fighting style. Then again most MMA fans want to see dudes taking unnecessary damage and brawl festing. If high level BJJ is so fun to watch and complex when it looks like 2 dudes laying on each other, than why's it so taboo for 2 guys 2 stand and receive the least damage while inflicting the most standing at distance?

 

[aerius]

Neo footwork works because damn near everyone tries to match the movement to keep up with the neo-stylist. By trying to match the movement, they often get going the wrong way or get off balance and the neo guy is able to use that to take an angle and get free shots in.

It's counter-intuitive, but the best way to shut down a neo-stylist is to do less, not more. The Thai style would be a nightmare for Dom to deal with, Cruz will be darting around all over the place trying to find an entry angle while the Thai fighter just pivots in place to face him, small pivots are a lot faster and more economical than big lunging steps. And from there it's just a simple matter of waiting for Cruz to strike, at which point it's a simple block & counter or catch & counter. Cruz throws half his punches like clotheslines so you can catch those into a clinch and then go to town on him with clinch striking.

TJ is harder to deal with but the same concepts apply. Instead of trying to counter on the move like Barao, you block him into a clinch so that he can't dodge and then go to work. If you look at the last sequence with Barao vs. TJ, there's 3 decent entries for a Thai fighter to either duck straight into a clinch or block the punches into a clinch. And from there it's all Muay Thai.

 

[Kanka]

God MT is simple! But that's the watered down sport version of Muay Boran. MMA's gotta ditch the simpleton easy to learn MT bum fighting style. Then again most MMA fans want to see dudes taking unnecessary damage and brawl festing. If high level BJJ is so fun to watch and complex when it looks like 2 dudes laying on each other, than why's it so taboo for 2 guys 2 stand and receive the least damage while inflicting the most standing at distance?

There is alot going on actually it's not that simple. Altough i can understand why it would appear simple for someone who hasnt studied muay thai.

 

[Ez Eric]

I think a combo of both is the best.

Dillashaw uses great footwork but he also stays in the pocket more than Cruz. Yes, Cruz beat TJ because styles make fights but I am more impressed with TJ's footwork and style. TJ is more likely to damage or KO his opponents. Cruz is very evasive and gets his shots in but TJ uses a lot of boxing and MT in addition to the Neo footwork.

 

[BWC]

"Neo-Footwork" is just switching stances mostly or switch kicks. It's nothing special frankly..

 

[ThatCasualFan]

Knowing more than 1 stance and switching it in a fight is really smart. If you know how to move you can feint, you can surprise and confuse giving you the advantage. Theres no problem in standing still if you can block, dodge and hit back. Most ufc fighters would be destroyed if they fought standing against elite muay thai fighters, their reflexes are not as good, they dont have the same coordination, they dont have the same power, dont throw kicks properly and etc. Now, about the mt guy versus ''neo footwork'' is very simple, give the mt guy experience fighting in the octagon, make him spar with people using different types of fighting style, stances, different footwoorks and boom, all that new shit will go down the hole when they get experience against neo guys.

 

[ABSthetics]

Neo footwork is the biggest myth in MMA.

It only works in the manlet divisions because people don't have power.

If a bigger tried that in a heavier division with ugly swings like Dominick does with his arms, he would get kod with a good punch.

Remember when Browne tried his Dom impression and tore his hamstring bouncing around and got KTFO'd? Was funny because everyone was calling him the HW Cruz beforehand and how he's this elite athlete.

 

[taugrim]

After watching the video... do all Muay Thai guys stand still like that? I'm from a karate background with a bit of boxing thrown in, so I've watched very little of it. My own best defense is moving my feet, so it's strange to me to watch two guys being so stationary in front of each other like that, though I can see a lot of punches are blocked and kicks checked. I guess you conserve energy that way, but still... hard to conceive of just standing and blocking like that with mma gloves.

Thai MT fighters often stand in close quarters and try to check kicks instead of avoid them. The movement is typically forward not side-to-side.

Other MT styles, e.g. Dutch MT, involve more movement (and boxing) to evade kicks.

 

[Vergilius]

Thai MT fighters often stand in close quarters and try to check kicks instead of avoid them. The movement is typically forward not side-to-side.

Other MT styles, e.g. Dutch MT, involve more movement (and boxing) to evade kicks.

Thanks for the information. I noticed them checking the kicks alright and can see they are very good at that. I'd consider it risky, though, being so stationary against somebody wearing mma gloves - it looked to me like they depended on the big gloves for blocking shots.

 

[JohnnyDragon]

Quite a bit of ignorance towards the sport of Muay Thai in here. First off, with Muay Thai rules, any professional Thai boxer would beat any MMA fighter 99 times out of 100. Most Thai boxers have upwards of 200 fights and train only striking. Shouldn't be hard to figure out.

In regards to there not being much movement in the posted video, there are a lot of dynamics at play. For one thing, betting/gambling is a huge part of the sport. Fighters will often be instructed on when to turn things up, based on how the betting and odds are working at any given moment in the fight. Secondly, Muay Thai is not so much a sport of subtleties. It can be very macho (for lack of a better term) where fighters will simply stand and trade kicks back and forth until one of them gives. Remember when Chuck broke Franklin's arm as he blocked his kick? That's a Muay Thai philosophy at work. Everything is done with power so that even if a strike is blocked, it's still effective.

 

[touchedbyjab]

Neo footwork.. that term triggers me.

 

[Wolf Of Sherdog]

Tj and cruz would have zero chance to win sad to say. They are miles apart in striking. They would get destroyed with kicks. Only chance to survive is trying to use their wrestling to bear hug the shit out of the thais to nullify lol

 

[Cocakillbana]

After watching the video... do all Muay Thai guys stand still like that? I'm from a karate background with a bit of boxing thrown in, so I've watched very little of it. My own best defense is moving my feet, so it's strange to me to watch two guys being so stationary in front of each other like that, though I can see a lot of punches are blocked and kicks checked. I guess you conserve energy that way, but still... hard to conceive of just standing and blocking like that with mma gloves.

They're not standing still. What applies to karate or boxing is useless in Muay Thai because a fighter can be grabbed and if they're not positionally ready for it, it's easy to exploit. And what good is your movement if the opponent doesn't respond to it, and they're just "standing still?" You have to go to them and get through the kicks, teeps and knees. Don't be naive in thinking a karate bro can just dart in and out.

 

[thack]

There comes a point where all the movement because unnecessarily excessive and counter intuitive. Raymond Daniels is crazy fluid with his striking but struggled when Holzkien methodically stalked him down (I know it's not a like for like comparison, but Daniels is constantly feinting, darting in and out and switching stances).

I don't know too much about the actual Thai scene but I feel good MT guys can always cut through a lot of the new age movement stuff because their kicks are on a whole different level. The recent GLORY LW champ pretty much chewed through his opponents by throwing his left roundhouse like a jab. No one could catch it and he gave no fucks even when it was slamming into his opponent's elbows.

 

[Haj01]

 

[Haj01]

Dominick Cruz is a very intelligent man who studied the footage of the great Willie Pep.

"I looked [Pep] up a while back when I was younger and I started watching his tapes. They're old school, black and white. One thing that really stuck out to me about Willie Pep that is huge for mixed martial arts is, I didn't look for somebody who moved their feet. I looked for somebody who moved their feet right for the sport of mixed martial arts in boxing. [...] Willie Pep, if you look at his old tapes, would steer people into his power, would steer people into his footwork, would steer people into his punches. That's even another level of footwork that you can take it to when you get as good as that." - Dominick Cruz



That Muay Thai guy would be just another victim who'd get Willie Pep'd by Cruz in any sport that allows punches and footwork.

TJ Dillashaw studied the footage of Dominick Cruz. He's a poor copy who got schooled by out of his prime crippled version of Cruz.

I love this sort of thing!

 

[CPH]

Kaimukkao shuts neo footwork down with teep only, then finishes by whatever he wants.

 

[StopDucking]

Thanks for the information. I noticed them checking the kicks alright and can see they are very good at that. I'd consider it risky, though, being so stationary against somebody wearing mma gloves - it looked to me like they depended on the big gloves for blocking shots.

 

[ReasonableMMAFan]

Neo footwork works because damn near everyone tries to match the movement to keep up with the neo-stylist. By trying to match the movement, they often get going the wrong way or get off balance and the neo guy is able to use that to take an angle and get free shots in.

It's counter-intuitive, but the best way to shut down a neo-stylist is to do less, not more. The Thai style would be a nightmare for Dom to deal with, Cruz will be darting around all over the place trying to find an entry angle while the Thai fighter just pivots in place to face him, small pivots are a lot faster and more economical than big lunging steps. And from there it's just a simple matter of waiting for Cruz to strike, at which point it's a simple block & counter or catch & counter. Cruz throws half his punches like clotheslines so you can catch those into a clinch and then go to town on him with clinch striking.

TJ is harder to deal with but the same concepts apply. Instead of trying to counter on the move like Barao, you block him into a clinch so that he can't dodge and then go to work. If you look at the last sequence with Barao vs. TJ, there's 3 decent entries for a Thai fighter to either duck straight into a clinch or block the punches into a clinch. And from there it's all Muay Thai.

Yeah, I'm totally sure Cruz would just allow himself to be slowly picked apart...as if he doesn't have any fight IQ. You're insane if you think Cruz wouldn't make adjustments and take a different approach if things went south.

 

[MMouse]

Ive never seen that kind of fancy footwork be effective against elite thai fighters. It works against decent ones sometimes, but not consistently.

guy in blue mayweather'd (footwork, counter, evasive) guy in the red. both elite thai fighters