Muay Thai vs Neo Footwork

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This gif is just madness...this is why i keep saying i think Dillashaw is the most technical striker in MMA. It's not even the best part about the Barao fights, he was hopping in stance switching and dodging punches as if Barao was moving in slow motion although Barao himself is ridiculously fast and accurate... complete madness and one of my favorite fights ever.

I mean Cruz as unorthodox and skilled as he is still kinda stumbles akwardly and leans to a side before exciting but during most of that gif Dillashaw had his feets under him...such great footwork.
 
Saenchai circles towards the power side all the time, and alot of other fighters do aswell. Its actually a very effective way to counter the cross.

Especially against McGregor. Every single knockdown in the Alvarez fight and many of the ones in his career happen when Conor's opponent is moving away from the power side. People should watch the foot positioning in the replays, it's generally accepted that you have to get the lead foot to the outside in a southpaw vs. orthodox matchup, but that's exactly what Conor's waiting for his opponents to do.

At first he plays the usual lead foot position game, then once his opponents are trained on it he lets them get it, then pivots on the inside angle and puts a left hand straight down the T. It's a longer path than the usual step to the outside and rear hand down the pipe, but it's more damaging since it comes in clean across the plane of the body and the victim's feet are out of position so he's unable to absorb the blow with his stance. Basically, he crosses the T and plants the guy on his ass.
 
Saenchai circles towards the power side all the time, and alot of other fighters do aswell. Its actually a very effective way to counter the cross.

I have no idea who Saenchai is, but I read he fights at flyweight were very few fighters carry much ko-power - especially with the big gloves they wear in mt. When Freddie Roach trained GSP to fight Koschek, he taught him to circle away from the powerhand and use the jab. It's basic boxing. If you are really good, you can break the rules, but I think we can all agree that Eddie isn't a very good boxer (though he is a good mma fighter).
 
I have no idea who Saenchai is, but I read he fights at flyweight were very few fighters carry much ko-power - especially with the big gloves they wear in mt. When Freddie Roach trained GSP to fight Koschek, he taught him to circle away from the powerhand and use the jab. It's basic boxing. If you are really good, you can break the rules, but I think we can all agree that Eddie isn't a very good boxer (though he is a good mma fighter).
Saenchai fights bigger opponents, sometimes with no gloves (hands wrapped with ropes). The point is, you dont always have to circle away from the power hand in an orthodox vs southpaw match.
 
Especially against McGregor. Every single knockdown in the Alvarez fight and many of the ones in his career happen when Conor's opponent is moving away from the power side. People should watch the foot positioning in the replays, it's generally accepted that you have to get the lead foot to the outside in a southpaw vs. orthodox matchup, but that's exactly what Conor's waiting for his opponents to do.

At first he plays the usual lead foot position game, then once his opponents are trained on it he lets them get it, then pivots on the inside angle and puts a left hand straight down the T. It's a longer path than the usual step to the outside and rear hand down the pipe, but it's more damaging since it comes in clean across the plane of the body and the victim's feet are out of position so he's unable to absorb the blow with his stance. Basically, he crosses the T and plants the guy on his ass.
Yeah and also he was anticipating the opponent instead of doing alot of random "neo movement" jitter.
 
Yeah and also he was anticipating the opponent instead of doing alot of random "neo movement" jitter.

Exactly. McGregor has a pretty good system for getting his opponents to end up where he wants them to. Conor has the step back left hand, the pull counter left hand, and the inside pivot left hand, everything he does is to get his opponents to unknowingly put their head in the kill zone for one of those shots. It's also part of why he had so much trouble against Diaz, Nate didn't do what Conor expected him to do.
 
I have no idea who Saenchai is, but I read he fights at flyweight were very few fighters carry much ko-power - especially with the big gloves they wear in mt.

These days he fights at around 140lbs against opponents who are usually a weight division or 2 bigger than he is. Seriously. Check this out. Fighting with rope wraps and takes his opponent to school like it's not even funny while circling into the power side.

 
Saenchai fights bigger opponents, sometimes with no gloves (hands wrapped with ropes). The point is, you dont always have to circle away from the power hand in an orthodox vs southpaw match.

Ok, so he's a special fighter. It's kind of strange using someone who is an exception to analyze what happened between Conor and Eddie. Alvarez doesn't have great standup and should be sticking to the basics - and that would be trying to make it as difficult for McGregor to land the money shot as he possibly can. It doesn't have that much to do with "Muay Thay vs Neo footwork" and I don't really know why we are discussing it.
 
In a ring, you can cut guys off into a corner by doing what the Thais are doing.

With huge gloves, you can block more head punches.

In a cage with small gloves, both of those things aren't true.
 
Ok, so he's a special fighter. It's kind of strange using someone who is an exception to analyze what happened between Conor and Eddie. Alvarez doesn't have great standup and should be sticking to the basics - and that would be trying to make it as difficult for McGregor to land the money shot as he possibly can. It doesn't have that much to do with "Muay Thay vs Neo footwork" and I don't really know why we are discussing it.
Ok man, i didnt know that his standup was considered shit in mma standards, but yeah it looked pretty shitty.

But still, circling to the power hand is by no means advanced or anything special. Its pretty basic.
 
Ok man, i didnt know that his standup was considered shit in mma standards, but yeah it looked pretty shitty.

But still, circling to the power hand is by no means advanced or anything special. Its pretty basic.

When you are fighting a ko-artist, you want to circle away from the power hand. Here are a couple of quotes from a transcript of Eddie's corner instructions during the fight:

[Alvarez circles right]
Almeida: He’s going the wrong way. The other way!! Foot, foot, foot!

[Alvarez hits the deck once again]
Almeida: Eddie, put him in the guard, put him in the guard. Use the cage. Use the cage. Get your knees inside, knees inside.

[Alvarez continues to circle to his right]
Almeida: The other way. 73!

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/t...tions-during-the-fight-are-hilarious.3397073/

Eddie's corner knew that he shouldn't circle towards McGregor's power hand. I guess I'll rest my case now.
 
When you are fighting a ko-artist, you want to circle away from the power hand. Here are a couple of quotes from a transcript of Eddie's corner instructions during the fight:

[Alvarez circles right]
Almeida: He’s going the wrong way. The other way!! Foot, foot, foot!

[Alvarez hits the deck once again]
Almeida: Eddie, put him in the guard, put him in the guard. Use the cage. Use the cage. Get your knees inside, knees inside.

[Alvarez continues to circle to his right]
Almeida: The other way. 73!

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/t...tions-during-the-fight-are-hilarious.3397073/

Eddie's corner knew that he shouldn't circle towards McGregor's power hand. I guess I'll rest my case now.
Yeah, because its really that black and white.

I'll rest my case now.
 
In a ring, you can cut guys off into a corner by doing what the Thais are doing.

With huge gloves, you can block more head punches.

In a cage with small gloves, both of those things aren't true.
He didn't get dropped because of small gloves. Conor simply didn't react to his jitter, and Alvarez kept positioning himself horribly. These guys below described this a long time ago
Neo footwork works because damn near everyone tries to match the movement to keep up with the neo-stylist. By trying to match the movement, they often get going the wrong way or get off balance and the neo guy is able to use that to take an angle and get free shots in.

It's counter-intuitive, but the best way to shut down a neo-stylist is to do less, not more. The Thai style would be a nightmare for Dom to deal with, Cruz will be darting around all over the place trying to find an entry angle while the Thai fighter just pivots in place to face him, small pivots are a lot faster and more economical than big lunging steps. And from there it's just a simple matter of waiting for Cruz to strike, at which point it's a simple block & counter or catch & counter. Cruz throws half his punches like clotheslines so you can catch those into a clinch and then go to town on him with clinch striking.

TJ is harder to deal with but the same concepts apply. Instead of trying to counter on the move like Barao, you block him into a clinch so that he can't dodge and then go to work. If you look at the last sequence with Barao vs. TJ, there's 3 decent entries for a Thai fighter to either duck straight into a clinch or block the punches into a clinch. And from there it's all Muay Thai.
They're not standing still. What applies to karate or boxing is useless in Muay Thai because a fighter can be grabbed and if they're not positionally ready for it, it's easy to exploit. And what good is your movement if the opponent doesn't respond to it, and they're just "standing still?" You have to go to them and get through the kicks, teeps and knees. Don't be naive in thinking a karate bro can just dart in and out.
 
When Freddie Roach trained GSP to fight Koschek, he taught him to circle away from the powerhand and use the jab. It's basic boxing. If you are really good, you can break the rules, but I think we can all agree that Eddie isn't a very good boxer (though he is a good mma fighter).

Watch the GSP fight again, he circles towards Koscheck's power hand when jabbing and he did the same against Diaz as well. He can do this because he tucked his head behind the shoulder while jabbing, and was ready to duck and roll under any rear hand punches that came his way. Another example. Tate and Shevchenko in their fights against Amanda Nunes, who's a pretty heavy hitter. Shevchenko circled into the power hand of Nunes and barely took any damage in the standup, Tate circled away from the power hand and was knocked senseless.

I don't think you need to be exceptionally good to "break the rules", you just need to understand distance, angles, and where the opponent's kill zone is. You can circle to Conor's power side all day as long as you stay outside the range of his left hand, easier said than done of course. Or you can block yourself into range the way Diaz did in the rematch since you know what angle the punch is likely to come from.
 
Watch the GSP fight again, he circles towards Koscheck's power hand when jabbing and he did the same against Diaz as well. He can do this because he tucked his head behind the shoulder while jabbing, and was ready to duck and roll under any rear hand punches that came his way. Another example. Tate and Shevchenko in their fights against Amanda Nunes, who's a pretty heavy hitter. Shevchenko circled into the power hand of Nunes and barely took any damage in the standup, Tate circled away from the power hand and was knocked senseless.

I don't think you need to be exceptionally good to "break the rules", you just need to understand distance, angles, and where the opponent's kill zone is. You can circle to Conor's power side all day as long as you stay outside the range of his left hand, easier said than done of course. Or you can block yourself into range the way Diaz did in the rematch since you know what angle the punch is likely to come from.

I stand corrected on the GSP fight. It's been years since I saw it. The difference is that GSP had a great jab to protect himself with while circling into the power, enabling him to keep his own right hand up and also control the distance against the one-handed Koscheck. Eddie doesn't have a great jab and is at a reach disadvantage, so he should be circling away like his corner wanted him to and kicking/wrestling rather than boxing McGregor.
 

2:40 there you have it. One of the most basic counter attacks in a south paw vs orthodox match. It's not very advanced. You don't want to be too predictable by just "tring to put your lead leg outside of the other guys lead leg". Real footwork none of that fancy neo jitter
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Ok man, i didnt know that his standup was considered shit in mma standards, but yeah it looked pretty shitty.

But still, circling to the power hand is by no means advanced or anything special. Its pretty basic.

Here's Eddie himself on which way he was supposed to circle:

“I did the complete opposite of what we planned on a daily basis for 10 weeks,” he continued. “To sum up our plan in a sentence it was ‘Go left and mostly wrestle.’ Instead, I circled into his left hand and mostly boxed. Fighting the way I did was a for sure death sentence and the result was fitting. I say it all the time, there is really small margin for error at this level and I paid for my mistakes. I managed to make it to the biggest stage and audience in my long career and fucked it all up when I arrived."

Read more at http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Ed...-to-Conor-McGregor-113671#F0B5CxQ9gJSuLgTb.99
 
Here's Eddie himself on which way he was supposed to circle:

“I did the complete opposite of what we planned on a daily basis for 10 weeks,” he continued. “To sum up our plan in a sentence it was ‘Go left and mostly wrestle.’ Instead, I circled into his left hand and mostly boxed. Fighting the way I did was a for sure death sentence and the result was fitting. I say it all the time, there is really small margin for error at this level and I paid for my mistakes. I managed to make it to the biggest stage and audience in my long career and fucked it all up when I arrived."

Read more at http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Ed...-to-Conor-McGregor-113671#F0B5CxQ9gJSuLgTb.99
Ive seen that
 
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