Movie Nerds, Get In Here! (Question for Action and Martial Arts Movie Buffs)

[Bullitt68]

Good call on Rogue Nation, @Dragonlordxxxxx. That's a paradigm case. It reminded me of the Batman/Catwoman arc in The Dark Knight Rises: They've both been hit by the wrong end of the stick and she wants him to run off with her, they don't owe anybody any more than they've already given, but he can't turn his back on his duty. Except there are more impossible missions, so they don't hook up at film's end. I liked the "Where will you go?"/"You know how to find me" parting. And now I haven't seen Fallout since I saw it in the theater and I've still yet to see Dead Reckoning, so I'm going to make tonight an MI kinda night. I honestly have no memory of where the Ethan/Ilsa thing goes...

 

[Bullitt68]

I'm just using this thread as my own personal Google now, but @europe1 and anyone else familiar with Hong Kong action: How clear are you on the plot points of The Heroic Trio? It's Johnnie To wackiness, I know, but I've seen the film multiple times and I've read blog posts, the Criterion write-up, and I'm still not clear on a basic plot point: Who's the Professor? Was he Yeoh's boyfriend before the Master told her to kill him and steal his invisibility cloak? He refers to them as partners and I think that she lives there. But he's always in that weird glassed-off prison cell-looking room. Is he a sort of captive, or is that something that he installed to protect her? In short, is this a non-love story with Yeoh falling for the guy the Master has instructed her to kill, or is this an ill-fated love story where these two lovebirds have been destroyed by this evil figure? I'm not clear on this basic plot point and it's really tripping me up.

 

[europe1]

I'm just using this thread as my own personal Google now, but @europe1 and anyone else familiar with Hong Kong action: How clear are you on the plot points of The Heroic Trio? It's Johnnie To wackiness, I know, but I've seen the film multiple times and I've read blog posts, the Criterion write-up, and I'm still not clear on a basic plot point: Who's the Professor? Was he Yeoh's boyfriend before the Master told her to kill him and steal his invisibility cloak? He refers to them as partners and I think that she lives there. But he's always in that weird glassed-off prison cell-looking room. Is he a sort of captive, or is that something that he installed to protect her? In short, is this a non-love story with Yeoh falling for the guy the Master has instructed her to kill, or is this an ill-fated love story where these two lovebirds have been destroyed by this evil figure? I'm not clear on this basic plot point and it's really tripping me up.

Dude, I haven't seen The Heroic Trio in like a decade. I really can't remember.

But the movie is on youtube and I checked there.



I dont know if its made explicit but... considering Yeoh's character was a disciple of the Master since an early age... she must pressumably have been ordered to "infiltrate" the Proffessors life and then steal the cloak, but ended up falling for him. Or at least that's my take joggling the memory.

There's obviously a lot of ambiguity since so little is said. But, yeah, I can't imagine Yeoh dating him on her own if she's a Dark Disciple.

Man that Master though. Love his Terminator reference. Can't believe this is a Johnny To film.



You don't think this is the movie's true lovestory?

 

[HenryFlower]

Same cousin who loves Drive told me to try 4, but I hate 1 and couldn't make it 20 minutes into 2. I just hate the whole world, everyone in it and everything about it. Not even the prospect of getting to Donnie Yen could make it happen for me. How are you able to love 4 but hate the first three? How could I jump into 4 and not hate it like the rest? What sets it apart?

well, i don’t hate the first three Wicks. in fact, i think #1 & #3 are very solid action flicks—they just simply haven’t imprinted on me like #4 has. therefore, i’d simply feel indifferent about the loss if Chapters 1, 2, & 3 suddenly poofed out of existence when i’d just be rewatching #4 again anyways if i needed some Wick in my life.

- looks fucking amazing. they crank up the volume on the visual spectacle big time.
- unpretentiously indulges in the magical realism that’s been germinating as each JW Chapter expanded on its mythology.
- Donnie Yen.
- the oversimplified narrative totally works because Chapter 4 is an action odyssey that doesn’t need to get bogged down in unnecessary world-building or sloppy character development bullshit. the world is already built. the characters are instruments for fucking shit up. time to let them play in it.
- Arc de Triomphe scene
- Hotline Miami scene
- 3-hour long action epic in the mode of a V I B E S movie
- the whole thing felt like poignant, bloodstained love-letter to Keanu Reeves & his career as Hollywood’s most humble action star


cliffs: you would totally fucking hate it.

 

[TheSlothMan]

Would In the Line of Duty IV count? Royal Warriors and Yes, Madame! are supposed to be earlier entries in that line of movies despite the titles making them seem like they're not related at all.

 

[Bullitt68]

Well, @Dragonlordxxxxx, I don't know the popular consensus, but I'd say the Mission Impossible series officially jumped the shark. I've been loving them from day one, have been consistently impressed with the high level action and the intriguing storytelling and character work, but my God, Dead Reckoning was literally unwatchable. I turned it off with an hour to go. I'm done with that franchise. Terrible decisions, terrible casting, the worst set-piece in the entire franchise. Cruise and McQuarrie should be ashamed of themselves. It was that bad. Glad I rewatched Fallout, though. That's a hell of a film, one of the best entries in the series. I'd probably rank them 3, 4, 6, 5, 1, 2. And the new ones can fuck off like the post-T2 Terminator films.

Dude, I haven't seen The Heroic Trio in like a decade. I really can't remember.

It's worth revisiting if for no other reason because it may be Yeoh at her hottest in that tight red suphero outfit.

But the movie is on youtube and I checked there.



I dont know if its made explicit but... considering Yeoh's character was a disciple of the Master since an early age... she must pressumably have been ordered to "infiltrate" the Proffessors life and then steal the cloak, but ended up falling for him. Or at least that's my take joggling the memory.

There's obviously a lot of ambiguity since so little is said. But, yeah, I can't imagine Yeoh dating him on her own if she's a Dark Disciple.

It'd be contrary to her having lost her "sister" and "friend" (with whom she's ultimately reunited) and forsaking the world, but it'd also work as her attempt after so long to recapture her old ways in search of something better, the last and only remnant of a good heart and of happiness, only to have it corrupted by the Master like everything else. It's problematically ambiguous for what I want to say about it. It looks I'll need to have a footnote explaining that the movie doesn't give us information where it should

Man that Master though. Love his Terminator reference. Can't believe this is a Johnny To film.

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You don't think this is the movie's true lovestory?

View attachment 1055468

It's absolutely bonkers. You know you're entering another world where they're playing by different rules when you watch Hong Kong action, then you add superheroes to the mix and it's different still, and then you get to that scene...it's just whatever at that point

cliffs: you would totally fucking hate it.

Maybe someday I'll give it a try. I mean, I don't care for the first or third Mad Max films (ignoring the new trash) but The Road Warrior rules. And I can pick and choose out of the Fast and Furious movies. Maybe it'll be the outlier.

Would In the Line of Duty IV count? Royal Warriors and Yes, Madame! are supposed to be earlier entries in that line of movies despite the titles making them seem like they're not related at all.

Haven't seen that one. Frankly, the confusion in those titles and the convoluted continuity is extremely off-putting. I'll eventually track those down, though.

 

[TheSlothMan]

It's definitely worth a watch. It stars Donnie Yen and Cynthia Khan with Yuen Wo Ping directing. There's an action scene almost every 2 minutes or so.

And yes the titles of the movies are odd. There's not really any continuity in the movies aside from returning actors from film to film.

Haven't seen that one. Frankly, the confusion in those titles and the convoluted continuity is extremely off-putting. I'll eventually track those down, though.

 

[Bullitt68]

It's definitely worth a watch. It stars Donnie Yen and Cynthia Khan with Yuen Wo Ping directing. There's an action scene almost every 2 minutes or so.

And yes the titles of the movies are odd. There's not really any continuity in the movies aside from returning actors from film to film.

Early Donnie Yen is one of my biggest gaps in action movies in general and Hong Kong action specifically. Looking at his IMDb, I haven't seen anything with him pre-Once Upon a Time in China II. But you and @moreorless87 both mentioned it, so it's definitely on the list.

 

[moreorless87]

Early Donnie Yen is one of my biggest gaps in action movies in general and Hong Kong action specifically. Looking at his IMDb, I haven't seen anything with him pre-Once Upon a Time in China II. But you and @moreorless87 both mentioned it, so it's definitely on the list.

That run of Woo Ping films(Tiger Cage, In The Line of Duty 4 and Tiger Cage 2) with Donnie in them are all definitely worth watching. Obviously much lower budget than Golden Harvest films of the era but the action is generally very good and Tiger Cage 1 is I think very good all around as a police thriller. That early era Yen often worked with americans John Salvitti and Michael Woods in the fight scenes to really good effect, lots of fun little touches as well, you will not forget Salvati from In The Line of Duty 4.

Donnie in full Bruce/Ali kickboxing mode in those films.

 

[kimocomplex]

Lol I ain't reading that shit

 

[Bullitt68]

Lol I ain't reading that shit

Three pages, 129 posts, and from an 05 join date, and this is your contribution? You saw this thread, saw all the discussion that's been had, and you thought to yourself, "Now this is a post worth making"?

Anyway, @europe1, thanks for reminding me about the Boettichers. I'm going to rewatch the whole Ranown cycle. Just rewatched Seven Men from Now. Hell of a flick, and it's got the non-love story in spades. @Aegon Spengler, they play it for drama rather than comedy, but there's even an awkward kiss moment that reminded me of Constantine. The ending is a bit goofy to ensure that they can get together, but it never happens in the film proper. It goes on the list with Shane and The Searchers. Now on to The Tall T.

 

[moreorless87]

@Bullitt68

I do think Henry's correct that Wick 4 shifts significantly from the previous films and is my favourite of the franchise as well

well, i don’t hate the first three Wicks. in fact, i think #1 & #3 are very solid action flicks—they just simply haven’t imprinted on me like #4 has. therefore, i’d simply feel indifferent about the loss if Chapters 1, 2, & 3 suddenly poofed out of existence when i’d just be rewatching #4 again anyways if i needed some Wick in my life.

- looks fucking amazing. they crank up the volume on the visual spectacle big time.
- unpretentiously indulges in the magical realism that’s been germinating as each JW Chapter expanded on its mythology.
- Donnie Yen.
- the oversimplified narrative totally works because Chapter 4 is an action odyssey that doesn’t need to get bogged down in unnecessary world-building or sloppy character development bullshit. the world is already built. the characters are instruments for fucking shit up. time to let them play in it.
- Arc de Triomphe scene
- Hotline Miami scene
- 3-hour long action epic in the mode of a V I B E S movie
- the whole thing felt like poignant, bloodstained love-letter to Keanu Reeves & his career as Hollywood’s most humble action star

cliffs: you would totally fucking hate it.

I do think there is quite a fundamental shift in tone as well, again for me earlier Wick always had a bit of a Fast and Furious style grungy cool bro action element to it but that gets played down significantly in the 4th film in favour of a more James Bond like classy globetrotting atmosphere and the grungy stuff in it feels less F&F and more Walter Hill.

Its generally just a much simpler film in terms of plot, not just leaving room for action but I think more room for character/atmosphere as well. It has Reeves playing what he's good at as a silent suffering badass and makes sure it surrounds him with lots of quality actors, even Donnie himelf I would argue has become a really fun actor to watch these days beyond the action.

 

[Nizam al-Mulk]

@Bullitt68

I do think Henry's correct that Wick 4 shifts significantly from the previous films and is my favourite of the franchise as well


I do think there is quite a fundamental shift in tone as well, again for me earlier Wick always had a bit of a Fast and Furious style grungy cool bro action element to it but that gets played down significantly in the 4th film in favour of a more James Bond like classy globetrotting atmosphere and the grungy stuff in it feels less F&F and more Walter Hill.

Its generally just a much simpler film in terms of plot, not just leaving room for action but I think more room for character/atmosphere as well. It has Reeves playing what he's good at as a silent suffering badass and makes sure it surrounds him with lots of quality actors, even Donnie himelf I would argue has become a really fun actor to watch these days beyond the action.

Wick was never anything like F and F. Just because bros like both they are very different beasts;

 

[moreorless87]

Wick was never anything like F and F. Just because bros like both they are very different beasts;

I'd agree it was never THAT far down the road of that style and I liked it far better BUT I do think the 4th film does have a significantly different tone to it to the degree someone who didnt like it previously might find it worthwhile revisting.

 

[Thrawn33]

Re reading thread and saw Snipes name mentioned, got me thinking:

Blade? Outside of drinking Dr. Hottie's blood to recharge (which yes I know in some vampire mythos is basically intimacy) I don't recall them being romantic..

Check me out that SherBros

 

[Nizam al-Mulk]

I'd agree it was never THAT far down the road of that style and I liked it far better BUT I do think the 4th film does have a significantly different tone to it to the degree someone who didnt like it previously might find it worthwhile revisting.

4th one reminds me of 2. It has a very similar tone.

 

[kimocomplex]

Three pages, 129 posts, and from an 05 join date, and this is your contribution? You saw this thread, saw all the discussion that's been had, and you thought to yourself, "Now this is a post worth making"?

Anyway, @europe1, thanks for reminding me about the Boettichers. I'm going to rewatch the whole Ranown cycle. Just rewatched Seven Men from Now. Hell of a flick, and it's got the non-love story in spades. @Aegon Spengler, they play it for drama rather than comedy, but there's even an awkward kiss moment that reminded me of Constantine. The ending is a bit goofy to ensure that they can get together, but it never happens in the film proper. It goes on the list with Shane and The Searchers. Now on to The Tall T.

 

[Bullitt68]

Re reading thread and saw Snipes name mentioned, got me thinking:

Blade? Outside of drinking Dr. Hottie's blood to recharge (which yes I know in some vampire mythos is basically intimacy) I don't recall them being romantic..

Check me out that SherBros

I thought about that one, but I don't remember anything romantic between them. No looks, no sense of longing, just two people thrown into a situation. If anything, hers is a clinical fascination with/pity for someone she becomes determined to help/cure, while his only concern is to stay alive to keep killing vampires. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

Firefly, Captain Reynolds and Inara.

 

[Bullitt68]

Firefly, Captain Reynolds and Inara.

No TV shows. I'm just focusing on film for this chapter.