Miocic's resume is overrated

KAZSoliloquy said:
general skills across all divisions are miles ahead of where they used to be. submission defense and takedown defense especially. in the era you're pretending was better, fights were stopped quick as hell, no one knew how to defend submissions, and fights were basically over as soon as someone got full mount. that's not the case anymore.

if you haven't been paying attention, that's on you.
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That's patently false. Especially at WW and higher and the decline is more pronounced as you go up.

Prime Derrick Lewis could not beat shadow of JDS yet he's top 10 now. He'll, he couldn't even beat old ass Hunt who had over 50 fights at the time. Derrick literally went on to beat a bunch of the current top 10 and fight for the belt since all the greats retired and he was able to beat the (new) guys that were left. He is the exact same fighter he was when old JDS and old Hunt beat him

Old shell of Reem dominated #4 Pav who has not shown any improvements since that fight.

Somehow Arlovski was still top 15 despite not even being a faint whisper of his glory days lol. Who other than Almeida has good grappling and Almeida has 0 striking

LHW is full of mediocre strikers who lose to anyone who has half decent takedowns. None of them have the grappling pedigree of the wrestlers or grapplers from the past.

MW is a joke. A bunch of gatekeepers are rising simply because the best guys are old and shop worn and even those were only able to rise when the previous era aged put and broke their chins
 
Stipe was old when he lost to Jones. Does that count
 
Everyone is overeated and never beat anyone good.

Most useless type of thread here
 
BowserJr said:
That's patently false. Especially at WW and higher and the decline is more pronounced as you go up.

Prime Derrick Lewis could not beat shadow of JDS yet he's top 10 now. He'll, he couldn't even beat old ass Hunt who had over 50 fights at the time. Derrick literally went on to beat a bunch of the current top 10 and fight for the belt since all the greats retired and he was able to beat the (new) guys that were left. He is the exact same fighter he was when old JDS and old Hunt beat him

Old shell of Reem dominated #4 Pav who has not shown any improvements since that fight.

Somehow Arlovski was still top 15 despite not even being a faint whisper of his glory days lol. Who other than Almeida has good grappling and Almeida has 0 striking

LHW is full of mediocre strikers who lose to anyone who has half decent takedowns. None of them have the grappling pedigree of the wrestlers or grapplers from the past.

MW is a joke. A bunch of gatekeepers are rising simply because the best guys are old and shop worn and even those were only able to rise when the previous era aged put and broke their chins
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Just because Derrick Lewis has a #9 ranking in the UFC doesn't mean he's actually a top ten heavyweight. Using that logic, we can say old guys weren't that good because Brett Rodgers was a top ten heavyweight at one point.
 
Ibm said:
DC was in prime form. Stipe knew how to win. I think the other guys underestimated him. I think if he opened up more and threw more, he would have tagged Jones.
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He was for the first fight but he had back surgery after the Derrick Lewis fight because he'd been suffering so bad he could barely train and after the surgery he was basically finished.

During the latest episode of DC and Helwani, he said: "When I had that back surgery in 2018 after Derrick Lewis it was over. It was over.

"Like I mean, it was absolutely, it was over. I fought twice since and I possibly should not have. You can find those things in hindsight.

"But, when I had that back surgery it so severely limited what I could do that it was pretty much over. I wasn't the same guy. I trained hard last fight and Stipe [Miocic] beat me.

"But, I just wasn't the same guy no more after the back surgery. I should've probably stopped, I should've probably stopped.

"I wasn't the same guy, I couldn't train as I trained before and that is about as honest as I could be with everyone."

Cormier suffered back-to-back losses to Miocic in his final two outings but insists he wouldn't change his decision to continue fighting after surgery.

He continued: "It was bad for a long time, right, there were a lot of times in the middle of training camp I would have to take days off because my back was so beat up.

"Legitimately, break everything down to the core, all the wear and tear in order to get back to my feet.

"I remember times in the middle of my championship run or before when I was crawling up the stairs at my house because my back was so jacked up.

"I was always able to manage it but once I had that surgery it was done."
 
Timing or not, he’s arguably teh UFC hw GOAT.
 
If his resume is overrated, what are we saying about Tom’s résumé?
 
Stipe has a great win in Werdum and at the time Ngannou looked like a world beater but other than those two wins everyone he's beaten has had one foot in the retirement home.
 
Doctor Grudge said:
Just because Derrick Lewis has a #9 ranking in the UFC doesn't mean he's actually a top ten heavyweight. Using that logic, we can say old guys weren't that good because Brett Rodgers was a top ten heavyweight at one point.
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That was the beginning of the end of HW being good.

Also Lewis was ranked much higher than 9 a few years ago. He was 3 or 4 IIRC. And HW has only gotten worse
 
Ibm said:
DC was in prime form. Stipe knew how to win. I think the other guys underestimated him. I think if he opened up more and threw more, he would have tagged Jones.
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Stipe I like the guy, but he was never exactly impressive in those fights with Daniel. 3rd fight maybe a little bit more so although that fight was boring without much happening. Lot of pushing on the fence. The second fight, he pretty much stood in the pocket for three rounds got hit with bombs. DC pretty much got tired from wailing on him. The bodywork was impressive. I’ll give him that.
 
cmw43 said:
He was for the first fight but he had back surgery after the Derrick Lewis fight because he'd been suffering so bad he could barely train and after the surgery he was basically finished.

During the latest episode of DC and Helwani, he said: "When I had that back surgery in 2018 after Derrick Lewis it was over. It was over.

"Like I mean, it was absolutely, it was over. I fought twice since and I possibly should not have. You can find those things in hindsight.

"But, when I had that back surgery it so severely limited what I could do that it was pretty much over. I wasn't the same guy. I trained hard last fight and Stipe [Miocic] beat me.

"But, I just wasn't the same guy no more after the back surgery. I should've probably stopped, I should've probably stopped.

"I wasn't the same guy, I couldn't train as I trained before and that is about as honest as I could be with everyone."

Cormier suffered back-to-back losses to Miocic in his final two outings but insists he wouldn't change his decision to continue fighting after surgery.

He continued: "It was bad for a long time, right, there were a lot of times in the middle of training camp I would have to take days off because my back was so beat up.

"Legitimately, break everything down to the core, all the wear and tear in order to get back to my feet.

"I remember times in the middle of my championship run or before when I was crawling up the stairs at my house because my back was so jacked up.

"I was always able to manage it but once I had that surgery it was done."
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You would think he'd lose weight after fighting to help his back
 
He basically fed on a bunch of big names who were years past their best. Put him in the UFC circa 2011 and he is like fringe top 5, put him in the Strikeforce GP around the same time and he sure as fuck aint winning.
 
Sean Chowdhury said:
ngannou's resume actually might be better than stipe
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Ngannou got to be the one to end Cain’s career instead of Stipe. Otherwise, they fought a lot of the same top guys. JDS. overeem, arlovski
 
So is literally every great fighter ever.
 
Yet he managed to get more title defenses than any other heavyweight in UFC history.
 
Gamer2k4 said:
Yet he managed to get more title defenses than any other heavyweight in UFC history.
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Randy didn't lose the belt until the fourth UFC fight agter winning it so not really. Also defending against weak comp is easier than in a stacked divisions. That's not controversial at all
 
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