Mike Tyson vs Jon Jones: The duality of fans

[Dbreiden83080]

4. Tyson usually fought bigger guys, unlike Jones, who looked huge against opponents like Shogun, whom he obviously beat while roided to the gills.

In terms of who’s the better fighter in their sport it is Jones by a mile nostalgia aside. I was a big Tyson fan as a youngster. But he folded up shop and got whooped by every great fighter he ever fought. Dominated in a time of weak heavyweights. Jones beat all the best of his era and broke them.

 

[mozfonky]

Behind scenes Mike Logan are partying going to Dinner and happy bout the milions Mike and his brother made. Showbiz

are they really? I didn't like it , thought it was tasteless.

 

[mozfonky]

In terms of who’s the better fighter in their sports it Jones by a mile nostalgia aside. I was a big Tyson fan as a youngster. But he folded up shoo and got whooped by every great fighter he ever fought. Dominated in a time of weak heavyweights. Jones beat all the best of his era and broke them.

Jones is the real deal that's for sure. How do we place anyone in a sport as young as mma though? I remember back in 2000 or so telling my coach that we haven't had the Ali's yet, fucker was and is delusional, "oh yes we have" probably thinking he was an Ali type figure and his opponents were like George Foreman, bullshit. Jon is fantastic, I like watching him, he's horribly cruel which may be a character flaw outside the octogan but it's all good inside, he's unflappable and versatile, comfortable wherever he is. Gosh the sport has changed, used to be getting to the ground was a main objective and the guard was mandatory, that's right, I don't watch mma much anymore.

 

[egk]

I laugh at all the Jones hate. I'm old and can only imagine the vitriol that Muhammed Ali would have gotten from the Jones haters. Yet he's practically regarded as a saint now. I was an Ali fan when it wasn't fashionable.
I'm not in the business of judging guys who make a living fighting in a cage. Too many posters on here are more into the soap opera bullshit.

 

[Like a fiddle]

Along with all the other reasons stated here, Mike Tyson is seen as one of the realest people in sports. Jones is hilariously the fakest dude in MMA.

 

[mozfonky]

I laugh at all the Jones hate. I'm old and can only imagine the vitriol that Muhammed Ali would have gotten from the Jones haters. Yet he's practically regarded as a saint now. I was an Ali fan when it wasn't fashionable.
I'm not in the business of judging guys who make a living fighting in a cage. Too many posters on here are more into the soap opera bullshit.

I'm wondering if it's that old quirk that American's are known for, they never like anyone who's dominant, never. Sugar Ray and Ali only started to be largely liked once they were no longer seen as invincible. I've heard Joe Louis wasn't really liked before the first schmeling fight.

 

[joy2day]

In terms of who’s the better fighter in their sport it is Jones by a mile nostalgia aside. I was a big Tyson fan as a youngster. But he folded up shop and got whooped by every great fighter he ever fought. Dominated in a time of weak heavyweights. Jones beat all the best of his era and broke them.

Well, it's overstating the case to say Jon "broke them" given he had some controversial decisions where he certainly didn't break anyone.

Tyson would have had a greater level of dominance than Jones in his sport if he had done what Jones did- cut weight instead of fighting the big boys. Jones is bigger than Tyson, absolutely no question. Tyson is the only one to ever beat perennial LHW great Michael Spinks (who also had a good career at HW), and it was a first round KO.

 

[Dbreiden83080]

Well, it's overstating the case to say Jon "broke them" given he had some controversial decisions where he certainly didn't break anyone.

Tyson would have had a greater level of dominance than Jones in his sport if he had done what Jones did- cut weight instead of fighting the big boys. Jones is bigger than Tyson, absolutely no question. Tyson is the only one to ever beat perennial LHW great Michael Spinks (who also had a good career at HW), and it was a first round KO.

I was a big Mike Tyson fan as a kid and I’m telling you he didn’t fight anybody brother. The heavyweight landscape was incredibly weak in the post Muhammad Ali era. Even a peak version of Larry Holmes was no longer around when Mike Tyson hit his prime as a youngster. His opportunity to prove himself was when Evander Holyfield was on the way up and was going to become an all-time great heavyweight. They would’ve fought in the early 90s but that didn’t happen thanks to Mike Tyson going to prison. Based on what we know, Holyfield likely would’ve won that fight. Tyson just didn’t fight anybody. DC is all-time great and Jones pretty much dominated him twice. His resume is insane. Fought everyone and never lost..

 

[mozfonky]

Yeah, pretty much the case. Every time Jon seems to have changed, it comes back that it was fake because he does something else punkish. Tyson never tried to act sincere when he was a young punk, so I think it is also easier to believe Tyson has really changed (that and he has maintained his new persona for a long time now).

People do change. If you ever work in prison for long, you see guys that are old that have sincerely changed since they committed crimes when they were young; many don't, but there are certainly cases that do with very long sentences.

A large portion of the public also didn't believe Tyson's accuser; there is even a clip of a younger Trump on a show saying he doesn't believe Tyson's accuser from the 90s.

Tyson was the easiest target going for that type of shit, even easier than trump

 

[mozfonky]

I was a big Mike Tyson fan as a kid and I’m telling you he didn’t fight anybody brother. The heavyweight landscape was incredibly weak in the post Muhammad Ali era. Even a peak version of Larry Holmes was no longer around when Mike Tyson hit his prime as a youngster. His opportunity to prove himself was when Evander Holyfield was on the way up and was going to become an all-time great heavyweight. They would’ve fought in the early 90s but that didn’t happen thanks to Mike Tyson going to prison. Based on what we know, Holyfield likely would’ve won that fight. Tyson just didn’t fight anybody. DC is all-time great and Jones pretty much dominated him twice. His resume is insane. Fought everyone and never lost..

Tyson is a shoulda been, he has also admitted that.

 

[Ares Black]

alot of people simply don't believe Tyson raped her. Also, Tyson's public image has softened over the years, he went through a villain phase for many years and was very unpopular, starting even before the rape case and even before he lost the title against Buster Douglas.

The other reason is simply time, memory has a finite lifespan. People often don't hold grudges forever. There will be some who never will forget because some that's how some folks are. People still hate Muhammad Ali for rejecting white america, for avoiding the draft, for calling Joe Frazier a gorilla and a lot of other reasons. Other people still love him. Fame is fickle and not everyone has forgotten Tyson's rape case.

^^^^^^^^^^^^This

 

[joy2day]

I was a big Mike Tyson fan as a kid and I’m telling you he didn’t fight anybody brother. The heavyweight landscape was incredibly weak in the post Muhammad Ali era. Even a peak version of Larry Holmes was no longer around when Mike Tyson hit his prime as a youngster. His opportunity to prove himself was when Evander Holyfield was on the way up and was going to become an all-time great heavyweight. They would’ve fought in the early 90s but that didn’t happen thanks to Mike Tyson going to prison. Based on what we know, Holyfield likely would’ve won that fight. Tyson just didn’t fight anybody. DC is all-time great and Jones pretty much dominated him twice. His resume is insane. Fought everyone and never lost..

I watched him as a kid also. Yes, the HW division was weak, kind of like it is now. Tyson was impressive against some guys that were a lot bigger than him and were good fighters even if not great. Many would say Tyson was not the same after his early career, that he stopped really being a dedicated boxer before the Buster fight; he got progressively further away from Cus's teachings in boxing fundamentals.

Whether or not any of that is true about him not being the same later in his career, he was definitely good enough to totally dominate LHW like Jones did, and he would have had a lot more quick finishes than Jones.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

People are largely driven by perceived justice. With Tyson, people give credit for a number of things: being damaged and likely molested as a youth, disbelief of that specific case (though Tyson has heavily implied that he has raped or done worse and deserved punishment), took some degree of accountability for the type of person that he was, and was found guilty and sentenced and did years in prison. Jones has none of that. He has a pretty privileged chance at life, is clearly a constant piece of shit and habitual offender, doesn't believe in accountability, and not only does no one feel as though he's been appropriately punished for his infractions, most would believe he's done more, or at least more frequently, the things he has got slapped on the wrist for that has never come to light or been rightfully spotlighted. There is much less perception of justice for Jones

None of the current feeling about Tyson forgives or excuses his actions back then, but you're not supposed to just hold onto hating who someone in perpetuity, so feelings should soften over time, long as the above is seen to. It is

 

[BowserJr]

Let's say I highlighted all your drunken mistakes. All the times you argued with your girl, yelled at your mom, talked shit over the internet, in real life.

It's very easy to paint someone as the villain.

But do you think all of the horrible things you've been involved with in your life define you?

No.

It's like saying that all the good moments where you've been a good friend, son, lifted up your family or community defines you.

People aren't just black and white.

They're all of those things combined and more.

You treat humans like you're voting in a 2 party political system, just like half the other low iq fools on the internet in these comment sections and that isn't how things work bud.

Nobody is just one thing and not the other. Humans are complex, multi faceted beings.

Nothing in this world works that way. Not if you actually want to understand anything with any sort of depth.

All I'm trying to show you is that it's much deeper and requires a LOT more thinking and effort. That's all.

You keep going on and on with assumptions about things no one ever said while acting self righteous. It's very cringe.

And no there is no way all of JBJ bad actions are on blast. It's only the absolute worst and no most people don't do that shit the he does. Stop making excuses. Own your shit and learn to be abetter person

 

[BowserJr]

All I've been doing is just trying to shed light on the bigger picture, trying to make you understand that these guys are way more complex than you're ever going to understand with such black and white thinking.

The way you analyze character is incredibly shallow and you don't even scratch the surface when it comes to understanding who these figures are, what they've been through or why they do what they do.

And I've studied this stuff professionally. The way you think is just mediocre.


You can't approach people in such a shallow way and expect to understand them.

Same is true for countless figures in Hollywood or even humans in general.

Must be tough to study something yet know next to nothing

 

[BowserJr]

I'm not that invested. I just put effort into analyzing things. I don't think you do.

Keep telling yourself that when your typing many multi paragraph replies

 

[Dbreiden83080]

I watched him as a kid also. Yes, the HW division was weak, kind of like it is now. Tyson was impressive against some guys that were a lot bigger than him and were good fighters even if not great. Many would say Tyson was not the same after his early career, that he stopped really being a dedicated boxer before the Buster fight; he got progressively further away from Cus's teachings in boxing fundamentals.

Whether or not any of that is true about him not being the same later in his career, he was definitely good enough to totally dominate LHW like Jones did, and he would have had a lot more quick finishes than Jones.

Well, the difference is Jones completely dominated in the golden age of the UFC when it came to light heavyweight. Just look at the resume. It’s ridiculous Look at how many great fighters, ex-champions, Hall of Fame capable fighters he defeated. And then he moves up and wins the heavyweight belt and defends. He’s just the best to ever do it in terms of resume.

People his whole career got way too caught up in this idea that he was huge for light heavyweight. He was not. He was tall. But the man never had any trouble cutting weight. He walked at like 220 or 225. That’s not huge.

When it comes to Mike Tyson, I agree he was not the same very early in his life when he got away from some of his early training. But at the end of the day, he fought the other two best heavyweights of his time and lost all three fights. And I don’t think he beats Evander in 1991 or 1992 either. Evander was too mentally tough and he would’ve broken him down. Tyson was very mentally fragile in the ring.

 

[theincognito]

Tyson isn't held to normal standards because he is very eccentric/childlike/dumb.

 

[AstralPanda]

You keep going on and on with assumptions about things no one ever said while acting self righteous. It's very cringe.

And no there is no way all of JBJ bad actions are on blast. It's only the absolute worst and no most people don't do that shit the he does. Stop making excuses. Own your shit and learn to be abetter person

It's quite sad how much of the point you seem to continually miss, only to repeat the same narrative over and over again.

You speak with such confidence in spite of knowing so little.

 

[AstralPanda]

Must be tough to study something yet know next to nothing

But you can't even acknowledge any points made or answer any questions.

There's been a great deal laid out for you, but you haven't actually added anything of substance.

Seems the problem here is in your own mirror.