Mighty mouse thinks Anthony Joshua beats Francis ngannou in mma

[Iroh]

I agree that Francis aint no wrestler. They gotta get Aspinall or Blaydes in there w AJ

Imagine Joshua vs Aspinall. It would be Couture vs Toney 2.0 on steroids (not literally, though maybe a little lol).

 

[HHJ]

Imagine Joshua vs Aspinall. It would be Randy vs Toney 2.0 on steroids (not literally, though maybe a little lol).

Well for sure Toney was old and out of shape. AJ will be a live one so long as he can stay up. Aspinall can double leg him down tho

 

[OLD RED]

Exactly. I said a full year at a place like AKA is all he'd need and I stand by that. Mike Tyson didn't really train Ngannou though. Dewey Cooper did. Mike just gave him some tips and allowed him to use his facility to spar.

 

[OLD RED]

Tyson def trained Ngannou.

 

[Iroh]

Well for sure Toney was old and out of shape. AJ will be a live one so long as he can stay up. Aspinall can double leg him down tho

Yeah, the age wouldn't matter much, IMO.

Aspinall firstly trains regularly with Fury and Verhoeven, he isn't getting KO'd that fast and the quickness with which he would take Joshua down and sub him might actually do the old adage of "don't blink" justice.

 

[OleBuffalo]

Are you familiar with Brock Lesnar? From the time he made his MMA debut up to winning the UFC title it took him less than 18 months. Great collegiate wrestler, American folkstyle, former NCAA D1 national champ. However, the guy couldn't strike to save his life, he was literally scared to get hit, and his body was already breaking down after years of pro wrestling.

Has the heavyweight landscape drastically improved or evolved since 2008? Clearly not. I'd say around a year is about right for a fighter as athletically gifted and dedicated to training as Joshua. He'd probably even be gifted a title shot in the UFC almost immediately (if he chose to take it). Come to think of it, didn't Dana already offer Fury an immediate heavyweight title shot against Jones? If memory serves he did.

I think the X factor tho is to what extent an athlete would be motivated to cross over, which is just to say an athlete like AJ would have to have the interest in mma to grapple and train mma everyday and then care enough about the fight to want to be in there to have a real chance. Athleticism w/o the right motivation isn’t enough, and being dedicated to training in any one discipline doesn’t mean that the same motivation would automatically exist in other disciplines, especially when starting later in life. Brock succeeded because of his legit wrestling base which is generally the equalizer plus the genuine desire to be in there ie survive getting beat half to death by guys like Shane Carwin.

That being said, AJ could do no worse vs Jon Jones than Cyril Gane so….

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

.

Mike was only involved with training Ngannou for a few sessions. That's one of them. He was mostly used for publicity. The reason I know this is because we have a boxing insider over in the boxing forum named Via Heeto. He knows Ngannou's actual striking coach/boxing trainer, Dewey Cooper, who works out of Vegas at TMT Mayweather Boxing Club.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

I think the X factor tho is to what extent an athlete would be motivated to cross over, which is just to say an athlete like AJ would have to have the interest in mma to grapple and train mma everyday and then care enough about the fight to want to be in there to have a real chance. Athleticism w/o the right motivation isn’t enough, and being dedicated to training in any one discipline doesn’t mean that the same motivation would automatically exist in other disciplines, especially when starting later in life. Brock succeeded because of his legit wrestling base which is generally the equalizer plus the genuine desire to be in there ie survive getting beat half to death by guys like Shane Carwin.

That being said, AJ could do no worse vs Jon Jones than Cyril Gane so….

It wasn't just Brock's wrestling base though. Obviously his size & athleticism was also a significant factor. Joshua is a very athletic 6'6 / 252 lbs of solid muscle. His reach is similar to Jon Jones only he's a couple inches taller. Physically, the guy is a specimen like Brock was.

 

[OleBuffalo]

It wasn't just Brock's wrestling base though. Obviously his size & athleticism was also a significant factor. Joshua is a very athletic 6'6 / 252 lbs of solid muscle. His reach is similar to Jon Jones only he's a couple inches taller. Physically, the guy is a specimen like Brock was.

Of course 1000% correct about Brock's size and athleticism, I should've been more thorough. His 'supplements' also helped, but that's a diff convo lol. Brock applied his freakish athletic gifts to wrestling from childhood which also just happens to be the best for transitioning to mma, so it worked out conveniently for him. I'm not denying at all AJ being a freak athlete, I just don't think his heart would be in it enough to really compete w top guys. But if we imagine a scenario where he wakes up tmrw w the burning desire to do mma then he'd prob become scary pretty quickly especially at hw where age wouldn't be a problem

 

[Pem123]

Contrary to popular belief, elite boxers would be extremely dangerous in an MMA cage.

It's not out of the realm of possibility, it just comes down to how committed the individual boxer is. These top boxers can afford 3-5 million dollar camps easily, it's not the same.


Folks act like it takes a lifetime of training to get legitimate TDD and a half decent guard in BJJ, if an elite boxer is serious, he will be able to compete.


The conversation always comes down to can they survive low kicks and the grappling? If you can be decent at defending both you will be a championship contender. Elite and semi-elite kickboxers already have the low kicks on lock, so they come right over and dominate in MMA.

We literally saw former NFL player Greg Hardy come into MMA late as all hell with zero background, and he took Volkov to a decision and did pretty decent. The only thing stopping us from seeing the truth is that the pay in MMA is just not high enough for anyone to take a crossover seriously, they would have to be washouts from their respective sport.


For decades it's been said that a strong grappling base is the key to having a successful MMA career, but times are changing. Now we are seeing fighters build their game off of their striking, because you don't need to be a wizard on the ground, you just have to know how to stall rounds and mitigate damage. How many of the UFC champions right now even employ offensive takedowns? MMA rules are designed to favor strikers, it's why every round starts on the feet, and why fighters with a grinding style are penalized for "inactivity". I don't understand how folks can see Greg Hardy do half decent, and you don't think one of the greatest punchers on the planet with unlimited resources couldn't hold his own with the proper training and experience.

I'm not even saying Joshua could beat Ngannou in MMA, but the dismissal of true world class athletes is crazy to me. Boxing is a much harder sport than MMA, the guys at the top have incredible skill and talent. In MMA you can become a champ while having extreme deficiencies in your game, it doesn't work like that in other high level martial arts.

There aren't many Pro Kickboxer that has make successful transition to MMA, Adesnya and Perreira are the most recent name but that only two names.

I think what we see instead is grapplers are getting better at striking, that is why many UFC Championship are won by striking, but Grapplers still dominated the UFC.

If you look at the UFC Champ currently, most of their background are from Grappling, they just happen to become competent strikers afterward.

 

[OLD RED]

.

Mike was only involved with training Ngannou for a few sessions. That's one of them. He was mostly used for publicity. The reason I know this is because we have a boxing insider over in the boxing forum named Via Heeto. He knows Ngannou's actual striking coach/boxing trainer, Dewey Cooper, who works out of Vegas at TMT Mayweather Boxing Club.

Tyson wasn't a full time trainer but he laid the groundwork.

 

[Pem123]

He took both Gane and Stipe down. He's finished fights via armbar and arm triangle choke. He'd have his way with Joshua easily. You guys are delusional. Hell, he could destroy him with only leg kicks. Boxing isn't MMA.

Agreed, people in this thread still think Nganou is new to MMA or something. Nganou been around, i think he knows how to get AJ down with ease.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Tyson wasn't a full time trainer but he laid the groundwork.

If you say so. The only reason Mike was involved is because Francis had asked him to be in his corner if he ever fought Tyson Fury. This was like 4 or 5 years ago when he asked. Mike obliged. Dewey Cooper is his actual fulltime boxing coach. Mike was more like an occasional assistant trainer. Publicity was his main role. Notice he wasn't really involved with the Joshua fight.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Of course 1000% correct about Brock's size and athleticism, I should've been more thorough. His 'supplements' also helped, but that's a diff convo lol. Brock applied his freakish athletic gifts to wrestling from childhood which also just happens to be the best for transitioning to mma, so it worked out conveniently for him. I'm not denying at all AJ being a freak athlete, I just don't think his heart would be in it enough to really compete w top guys. But if we imagine a scenario where he wakes up tmrw w the burning desire to do mma then he'd prob become scary pretty quickly especially at hw where age wouldn't be a problem

I think AJ would dedicate himself to training MMA like he does boxing assuming the money was there. He was a former track & field athlete, started boxing late at the age of 18, and within just a few years he was already the best in the world (medaled at the Worlds & took gold at the Olympics). Most top boxers start when they're kids. Around 8-10 years old, sometimes even younger.

 

[OleBuffalo]

I think AJ would dedicate himself to training MMA like he does boxing assuming the money was there. He was a former track & field athlete, started boxing late at the age of 18, and within just a few years he was already the best in the world (medaled at the Worlds & took gold at the Olympics). Most top boxers start when they're kids. Around 8-10 years old, sometimes even younger.

18 isn't too wild for hw, but still further evidence of his natural ability. We'll have to just disagree on what level of motivation he'd have at the prospect of developing a full-ish mma skill set, but I could buy the idea of a one-off fight vs a striker being possible since the training would be pretty specific to key matchup things instead of trying to learn rnc defense and single legs etc etc in a limited time

 

[sanguinius]

Randy can mix it up with the best of them. The reason he didn't was simple - Toney was too much of a risk to stand with. Hence the extremely cautious approach and why he immediately shot on him from the outside.

He was a wrestler first and foremost. Calling any display of grappling panic wrestling is childish and ridiculous.

 

[HolmeZy55]

I love this post.
5 million $ camp.
A little TDD and pulling guard.

Good stuff.

LMFAO.

And 25 others agree with him, the takes on here are incredible, or at least they are incredibly fucking stupid.

 

[Stagliano]

What people need to realize is Francis Ngannou is mentally subnormal. He’s probably one of the most gifted athletes in the world, he’s wider than he is tall and he’s 6’4, but he’s not very bright.

Listen to one of his interviews. Does he come across as sharp between the ears to you? NO! When he attempts to trash talk it just reveals his very low fluid intelligence. He has a cap on what he can learn, and what he can learn is usually quickly unlearned. It’s really pitiable.

English is not his first language but he doesn’t sound dumb at all. I assume that say it due to his african accent but Francis is actually intelligent and he knows what he want. If he was dumb he wouldn't have stood up against Dana white. And he'd be still under UFC slave contract.

 

[Rio Ferdinand]

Might see something akin to the ngannou vs gane fight.

Turning francis into a panic wrestler.

 

[laleggenda27]

I dunno man Joshua with 4oz gloves is a scary thought. You have to be picture perfect to get the clinch coz he knows you want to close the distance. I would agree if its someone with excellent wrestling pedigree who can shoot from a mile away but francis aint that and will have to close the distance

The whole "boxers would kill mma fighters with 4 oz gloves" thing was dismantled decades ago. It's funny that people are still saying things like this in 2024. What makes it more silly is that boxing isn't even the most effective striking art for mma; high-level kickboxers would absolutely RUIN a professional boxer (Joshua included).

If you said that Joshua was going to take a full year or two exclusively dedicated to mma, maybe you'd have an argument. But even then, there's no guarantee that he'd develop competent TDD, or that he'd be able to adjust his stance for mma (e.g., shift his weight off the front foot, lower the hips for TDD, holding his hands differently for defense because of the smaller gloves).

Just because someone is great in one combat sport doesn't mean they'd successfully transition to mma. For every wrestler, kickboxer, or bjj player who successfully transitions to mma, there are 10 who flamed out.