Law Michigan shooting

I agree with your point. Though in some cases when it was caught in film that no matter how railroaded they a capital punishment verdict can be wise to be just. As in cases of mass shootings and the suv Christmas parade. I think in either case you can say the death penalty was just. While in other cases, yes the state might have set them up or lied and gotten a wrong conviction and built a death penalty conviction on top of that

I hear you. Let me try this: All convictions are beyond reasonable doubt. Are you saying there should be a “beyond irrefutable evidence” standard? In the case of the parade tragedy, it would be a shame to find out after the government kills him in a few years he had some crazy medical condition or have been on some strange drug combination. I know it isn’t likely.

We are balancing government abuse vs. individual rights. If we never execute anyone than we have always come down in the side of the individual. Plus, we get the benefit of living in a place where the government just isn’t supposed to kill people in the name of justice.
 
I'm a dad. I'm a dad who volunteered at his kids school for about 5 years. It's not hard to spot in kids, let alone your own. Look at this kid, just look at him. The dad knew, I guarantee it, he just didn't care like most dads these days.
You can't tell by looking at him that he was bullied. I mean sure he has a look that many kids would pick on but that doesn't mean he was being picked on.
 
You can't tell by looking at him that he was bullied. I mean sure he has a look that many kids would pick on but that doesn't mean he was being picked on.

You don't just look at the way they look, but how they act. If you are a dad involved, 99% chance you know.

I'm thinking this kid spent more time alone than he did with his dad.
 
I hear you. Let me try this: All convictions are beyond reasonable doubt. Are you saying there should be a “beyond irrefutable evidence” standard? In the case of the parade tragedy, it would be a shame to find out after the government kills him in a few years he had some crazy medical condition or have been on some strange drug combination. I know it isn’t likely.

We are balancing government abuse vs. individual rights. If we never execute anyone than we have always come down in the side of the individual. Plus, we get the benefit of living in a place where the government just isn’t supposed to kill people in the name of justice.
I think someone that is dangerous enough to kill mutl people for no real reason is a threat and putting them down is fine. Even if they have a mental defect.
There was basically always capital punishment, only it used to be met out at the very local level. I don't want mobs doing it, so some intervention is understandable, as law can get into murky vendettas otherwise. Despite how bad the govt can be, there is a point or a line where one crosses where there is no returning to society.
 
I think someone that is dangerous enough to kill mutl people for no real reason is a threat and putting them down is fine. Even if they have a mental defect.
There was basically always capital punishment, only it used to be met out at the very local level. I don't want mobs doing it, so some intervention is understandable, as law can get into murky vendettas otherwise. Despite how bad the govt can be, there is a point or a line where one crosses where there is no returning to society.
That’s the thing with mental health issues. Even the own family often won’t take care of them. There comes a point where innocent lives must be saved
 
That’s the thing with mental health issues. Even the own family often won’t take care of them. There comes a point where innocent lives must be saved
Yes, I mean it would be nice to catch people like this early and get them treatment. But if they commit mass murder, they can't be allowed back out, and given some DAs, we need to protect the future by putting these people down.
 
Why do you guys think he’s mentally ill? Has that come out?
 
Pretty sure it came out when he went to school and murdered a bunch of people.
No it did not.

It’s entirely reasonable to say that someone who commits an atrocity is a sick fuck, but to say it makes him mentally ill betrays a poor understanding of mental illness. Mentally ill people do not commit the majority of fucked up crimes.

Simply redefining mental illness to fit around this target is not helpful and obfuscates good faith attempts to try to stop these kinds of attacks.
 
Pretty horrible, what this kid did. School shootings are nasty things and they can ruin the lives of people who weren't even injured. His parents must feel absolutely sick.
 
Quick question for our legal experts, why aren’t killers like this treated like the terrorists they are and instead given privileges like wait for warrants, allowed to lawyer up, etc?
If a terrorist surrenders once he/she is cornered than they get taken into custody/prison. If they put up a fight once cornered they get killed. Many just commit suicide before/once getting cornered.
 
I'm guessing by the looks of this dude he got picked on by many dudes and got rejected by many chicks. Hopefully love finds him in prison via being used as an unwilling fleshlight.
 
I'm guessing by the looks of this dude he got picked on by many dudes and got rejected by many chicks. Hopefully love finds him in prison via being used as an unwilling fleshlight.
What Ethan did was an extremely heinous act and he deserves life in prison for what he did. This just continues to highlight the issue of the lack of proper mental health treatment for many children in this country and also a lot of school districts really doing anything to stop the bullying. We had a fellow classmate in high school hang himself at the local park due to being bullied. Could have been another Ethan knowing the fact his father and him would go shooting and when we'd hang out he would go on about how it would be just perfect if he could kill every single person in that school who bullied him.
 
What Ethan did was an extremely heinous act and he deserves life in prison for what he did. This just continues to highlight the issue of the lack of proper mental health treatment for many children in this country and also a lot of school districts really doing anything to stop the bullying. We had a fellow classmate in high school hang himself at the local park due to being bullied. Could have been another Ethan knowing the fact his father and him would go shooting and when we'd hang out he would go on about how it would be just perfect if he could kill every single person in that school who bullied him.

I've always said. Minority children for the most part end up in gangs. While geeky white kids like this just rot on the internet. This shit could have been stopped with a strong dad, and a school that cared.

But I can guarantee both were largely absent from this kids life in any real meaning.
 
I've always said. Minority children for the most part end up in gangs. While geeky white kids like this just rot on the internet. This shit could have been stopped with a strong dad, and a school that cared.

But I can guarantee both were largely absent from this kids life in any real meaning.
If only there was a geeky white kid gang, he may have been able to find the support structure he so desperately needed.
 
Oof, no way that dude wasn't bullied relentlessly.
 
Parents of Michigan school shooting suspect held on $500,000 bond each after manhunt
By Carolyn Sung, Shimon Prokupecz and Jason Hanna, CNN |December 04, 2021

211204070547-01-crumbley-parents-split-super-169.jpg

The parents of the teen accused in this week's deadly Michigan high school shooting pleaded not guilty to involuntary manslaughter charges Saturday morning, hours after police said they arrested them in a Detroit warehouse following an hours-long search.

A judge in Michigan's Oakland County set bond at $500,000 each for James and Jennifer Crumbley, the parents of Ethan Crumbley, the teen jailed on suspicion killing four schoolmates and wounding seven other people at Oxford High School on Tuesday.

The detained couple, sitting alone in separate rooms, made their arraignment appearance by video conference with the judge, their attorneys and the county prosecutor.

Both spoke little beyond saying they understood each charge -- with Jennifer Crumbley appearing to cry between words -- and pleaded "not guilty" to each.

During the arraignment, their attorneys stressed their clients had fully intended to turn themselves in before authorities arrested them Saturday morning, and denied prosecutors' assertion that their son had unrestricted access to the gun he's accused of using.

James and Jennifer Crumbley were charged Friday with four counts of involuntary manslaughter over Tuesday's shooting, and were supposed to attend an arraignment Friday afternoon, authorities said.

But they missed the Friday arraignment, setting off a search for them, authorities said.

Early Saturday, police said they found the couple on the first floor of an industrial or commercial building in Detroit -- some 40 miles south of the Oxford area where they live -- after someone tipped police Friday night that their vehicle was nearby.

"They appeared to be hiding in the building," Detroit Police Chief James White said during a news conference early Saturday. They were "very distressed" after they were detained, the chief said.

White said he didn't know the Crumbleys' intentions, but that "this isn't indicative of turning themselves in, hiding in a warehouse."

White added someone let the couple into the building, and that person could face charges.

One of the couple's attorneys had earlier stated that the Crumbleys had left town for their own safety and intended to turn themselves in voluntarily. On Saturday morning, their attorneys Shannon Smith and Mariell Lehman issued a statement saying they "understand that our clients were apprehended last night, although we fully intended to turn them in first thing this morning for arraignment, contrary to the misinformation that has been rampant in the media."

Prosecutors on Friday announced the couple were being charged in connection with the shooting for numerous reasons -- including allegations that they recently bought the gun for their son, and did not remove him from school despite being told hours before the killings of a concerning drawing the teen was accused of making.

Ethan Crumbley was charged Wednesday as an adult with terrorism, murder and other counts in the shooting.

The shooting -- the deadliest at a US K-12 campus since 2018 and the 32nd such attack since August 1 -- claimed the lives of Madisyn Baldwin, 17; Tate Myre, 16; Hana St. Juliana, 14; and Justin Shilling, 17.

Couple withdrew $4,000 from an ATM on Friday, official told CNN

The US Marshals Service was helping local authorities search for the couple Friday, and had offered a reward of up to $10,000 for information that could lead to their arrest.

Ultimately, Detroit police made the arrest after a local business owner saw a woman standing near "the suspect vehicle" in his parking lot and called 911, according to a statement to CNN from Undersheriff Michael McCabe with the Oakland County Sheriff's Office.

"After an extensive search by DPD including Detroit K-9 units both of the fugitives were located and arrested by DPD," McCabe said.

Prosecutors had worried about the couple escaping because they didn't have ties to their community, and officials had trouble locating the Crumbleys once their son was being arraigned, a law enforcement source told CNN on Friday.

The parents also withdrew $4,000 from an ATM in Rochester Hills, Michigan, on Friday, a law enforcement official told CNN. Rochester Hills is about 10 to 15 miles from Oxford.

Law enforcement were tracking the couple's whereabouts by cell phone pings but that signal had dropped because the couple's cell phones were turned off, the official said



Prosecutors reveal more on parents role before shooting


The arrests come after officials revealed more information Friday regarding the circumstances leading up to the deadly shooting.

On November 26, James Crumbley bought the gun authorities believe was used in the shooting at an Oxford, Michigan, store with his son, according to Karen McDonald, the prosecutor who is leading the case.

Shortly after, his son posted a picture of a gun on an Instagram account and captioned it, "Just got my new beauty today. SIG SAUER 9mm" with a heart-eyes emoji, McDonald said.

Jennifer Crumbley also posted about the gun on social media, calling it "his new Christmas present," McDonald continued. And his mother also took him to a shooting range the weekend before the shooting at the school, according to a law enforcement.

On Monday -- the day before the shooting- - a teacher saw Ethan Crumbley searching ammunition on his phone and reported it to school officials, the prosecutor said.

Jennifer Crumbley did not respond to school officials when they called her about that conduct -- but later that day sent a text message to her son saying, "LOL I'm not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught," McDonald said.

Then on Tuesday -- the day of the shooting -- a different teacher became alarmed after the alleged shooter had a drawing that showed a semiautomatic handgun pointing at the words, "The thoughts won't stop. Help me," McDonald said.

Another section displayed a drawing of a bullet with the words "Blood Everywhere" written above it. Between the drawing of the gun and the bullet is one of a person who seems to have been shot twice and is bleeding, McDonald said.

"Below that figure is a drawing of a laughing emoji," McDonald said.

Also found on the note, according to McDonald: "My life is useless" and "The world is dead."

The parents were called for a meeting in the school with a counselor and their son, who had altered the illustration by scratching out the drawings of the gun and bloody figure, along with the words, according to McDonald.

The parents refused to take their son out of the school, and he was allowed back to class.

Later that day, according to prosecutors, Crumbley opened fire outside a bathroom, aiming at students in the hallway as well as those who were hiding in classrooms.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/12/04/us/michigan-oxford-high-school-shooting-saturday/index.html
 
Honestly, if someone killed my children I would think it would be my duty to make sure that they could never hurt anyone again, but it's a little different for minors. I wonder what goes wrong in these kids' lives to where they become mass murderers before their brains are even developed.
Not really. The victims aren't going to rise from their graves ala altered beast because a minor did it. Lock him up forever.
 
If only there was a geeky white kid gang, he may have been able to find the support structure he so desperately needed.

Weird that is what you got out of my post. Lol. Sometimes the support u get is not what u need. That's the point Einstein.

Reread it 3 more times slowly and open your mind.
 
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