Mexico, a Superpower?

[Selukrid612]

California, New Mexico, Arizona and Texas were all Mexican lands that were annexed.

Penultimate to that they were lands of the vanquished natives.

No shit, but they were largely uninhabited areas prior to the US taking control of them. My point being virtually all of the development and recorded history is American.

 

[Cold Front]

No shit, but they were largely uninhabited areas prior to the US taking control of them. My point being virtually all of the development and recorded history is American.

To illustrate your point, there were something like 8,000 Spanish speakers in the entire state of California when the U.S. went to war with Mexico, and some of those encouraged the U.S. to annex California because they preferred American rule to Mexican rule.

8,000. Not a very big number for a place nearly twice the size of the U.K.

 

[Cold Front]

Of course I'm not including Native Americans, who were far more numerous than the Spanish-speaking population, but then the Native Americans weren't given a choice by any of the competing powers as to who would be in charge of their lands.

 

[Selukrid612]

To illustrate your point, there were something like 8,000 Spanish speakers in the entire state of California when the U.S. went to war with Mexico, and some of those encouraged the U.S. to annex California because they preferred American rule to Mexican rule.

8,000. Not a very big number for a place nearly twice the size of the U.K.

Yep and it wasn't just California, there was not a significant Mexican presence in any of the areas the US annexed, it was less than 50,000 people total. It was only Mexican land in the sense that Spain had been thrown out and Mexico was trying to hold onto it's territories, but the US had other plans.

 

[Cold Front]

Yep and it wasn't just California, there was not a significant Mexican presence in any of the areas the US annexed, it was less than 50,000 people total. It was only Mexican land in the sense that Spain had been thrown out and Mexico was trying to hold onto it's territories, but the US had other plans.

Thank God for it, too.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

No. Mexico has a median income of 3806. They are one of the poorest countries. This wikilink shows the median income by countries, it is sourced, but in local currencies so you have to crunch the conversion if you dont believe them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income

Their economy is hilariously top loaded, as you can see by looking at their per capita GDP, which sits at a decent 15.6k. They do have a per capita above Bulgaria and Romania, but that is it.

Uhhh, you do know that there are more than 35 countries in the world, right? That list is of the richest 35 countries in the world and yeah, it's one of the poorest countries in a list like THAT.

Look at any measure you want (per capita GDP, life expectancy, infant mortality rates) and Mexico is in pretty much the same place: right below the developed countries, close to eastern and southeastern European countries.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

No shit, but they were largely uninhabited areas prior to the US taking control of them. My point being virtually all of the development and recorded history is American.

I love this argument.

So are sparsely populated areas currently in the US fair game? If Canada or Russia took over Alaska would it be ok?

What about Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, the Dakotas? Canada could just take it over and any American objections would just be whining, am I right?

Hey, parts of Siberia is one of the most desolate places on Earth. It should be fair game for ANYONE.

 

[weed]

Mexico, u.s.a. & Canada will eventually combine voltron style to form the north American union.

Then everyone can enjoy Canadian beer and mexican weed.

word, Canada forming the right armpit & Mexico forming the left.

 

[Cold Front]

I love this argument.

So are sparsely populated areas currently in the US fair game? If Canada or Russia took over Alaska would it be ok?

What about Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, the Dakotas? Canada could just take it over and any American objections would just be whining, am I right?

Hey, parts of Siberia is one of the most desolate places on Earth. It should be fair game for ANYONE.

People would not hesitate to take it if they could do it. But they can't so they don't.

Stop trying to turn a power differential into a moral equation.

Spain didn't hesitate to carve out its own empire in the New World, and this included California. Mexico didn't hesitate to reestablish those claims when it declared independence. In both cases, power trumped any ethical considerations.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

People would not hesitate to take it if they could do it. But they can't so they don't.

Stop trying to turn a power differential into a moral equation.

Spain didn't hesitate to carve out its own empire in the New World, and this included California. Mexico didn't hesitate to reestablish those claims when it declared independence. In both cases, power trumped any ethical considerations.

Then maybe you people should STFU about the "Oh, there weren't that many people living in California!" That's obviously appealing to moral grounds: It wasn't "that bad" to steal Mexico's land because there weren't that many people living there.

It should be "We took it because we could and because we were stronger and we didn't give a shit how many people were there."

 

[ens189]

Mexico a superpower?

Garnettgif lol.

 

[Selukrid612]

I love this argument.

So are sparsely populated areas currently in the US fair game? If Canada or Russia took over Alaska would it be ok?

What about Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, the Dakotas? Canada could just take it over and any American objections would just be whining, am I right?

Hey, parts of Siberia is one of the most desolate places on Earth. It should be fair game for ANYONE.

It wasn't even an argument, I was simply stating a historical fact. But to put your question in context, the least populated state in the US(Wyoming) still has over 12x as many people as ALL of the areas the US took from Mexico had. And infinitely more infrastructure/development/etc. The SW US was "Mexican" for a very brief period and it was more of a territorial claim than anything else. The same cannot be said about the sparsely populated US states you're referring to.

 

[Cold Front]

Then maybe you people should STFU about the "Oh, there weren't that many people living in California!" That's obviously appealing to moral grounds: It wasn't "that bad" to steal Mexico's land because there weren't that many people living there.

No, an argument is an argument. I can challenge anyone's moral calculus even if I don't agree with it. And challenging it doesn't mean I made a moral argument of my own.

For example, when someone argues by way of suggestion that Americans stole a lot of other people's land, it's not a moral argument to show him, by the numbers, that we did not.

The land was there for the taking, and Polk took it. And there was very little disruption in most residents' lives for those who didn't go to war.

In fact, I wish Polk would have taken a lot more land. It would have been far more productive in our hands than theirs. Can you imagine Baja as part of U.S. territory?

 

[Cold Front]

Anyway, the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo allowed Mexican landowners to keep their land - although the enforcement of that provision was spotty.

 

[IceAndFire**]

George Friedman is a clown. He is the finest example of a political pundit writing shock literature to make $$$$$

It is impossible to predict events a decade from now let alone a century.

Keep in mind, he's the same guy who in 1970s predicted that Japan and the US will go to war in the 1980s.

 

[7437]

Uhhh, you do know that there are more than 35 countries in the world, right? That list is of the richest 35 countries in the world and yeah, it's one of the poorest countries in a list like THAT.

Look at any measure you want (per capita GDP, life expectancy, infant mortality rates) and Mexico is in pretty much the same place: right below the developed countries, close to eastern and southeastern European countries.

Maternal mortality rate is ranked 108 of 182 (higher is better), just below Thailand and double the rate of the reknowned safety of Lebanon. It is lower than every European country.

Infant mortality is #91 of 224 (higher is better). It is not above ANY European country, and sits a comfortable 6 places behind Burma.

Per capita GDP is ranked #88, ahead of 2 european countries, that I mentioned before, but below quality places like malaysia.

Immigration rate is in a comfortable 158th place. The immigration rate is closer to Afghanistan than it is to any European country.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/mx.html

Mexico isnt even close to a European country.

 

[IceAndFire**]

I gotta admit that Friedman isn't as a big of a clown as some other pundits.

Pat Buchanan, for example, argues that the US will stop being a superpower in the future for one sole reason: Because the whites will become a minority.

The idea of competent colored people simply cannot be! I cannot believe he was even allowed to publish such supremacist drivel shite.

 

[IDL]

I gotta admit that Friedman isn't as a big of a clown as some other pundits.

Pat Buchanan, for example, argues that the US will stop being a superpower in the future for one sole reason: Because the whites will become a minority.

The idea of competent colored people simply cannot be! I cannot believe he was even allowed to publish such supremacist drivel shite.

The only way that could happen reasonably was if there was civil conflict and/or balkanization of some sort. It's not like history isn't full of examples of things like that happening.

 

[Strychnine]

Canada already has the weed covered, at least in BC. You'll be able to get it from the North and the South.

But yes, the North American Union is being set up sort of like the EU is already.

Yup, If I may quote Iggy Pop....

"This is the street, I've got to compete, baby I ain't no fool".

 

[Cold Front]

I gotta admit that Friedman isn't as a big of a clown as some other pundits.

Pat Buchanan, for example, argues that the US will stop being a superpower in the future for one sole reason: Because the whites will become a minority.

The idea of competent colored people simply cannot be! I cannot believe he was even allowed to publish such supremacist drivel shite.

Well, thank God you were here to help warn us of his dastardly racism.