Medicare coverage ban on sex-change surgery lifted

[o'dubhlaoich]

Doesn't it occur to you that the fact you don't have a valid argument should be your cue to learn more about this topic rather than advertise yourself as a proud moron?

I am still waiting for a valid medical reason. I am dead serious. Point me to a study. Point me to a case where someone needed the tranny change to stay healthy and not die. SHOW ME FOR FUCKS SAKE!

 

[FIMN]

I am still waiting for a valid medical reason. I am dead serious. Point me to a study. Point me to a case where someone needed the tranny change to stay healthy and not die. SHOW ME FOR FUCKS SAKE!

Why not ask a doctor, or Google it?

 

[Jukai]

Its not fucking normal to want to be another sex than what you are born. You have mental issue if you do. You need drugs and therapy. You dont need my tax money to have your shit cut in half and tucked into a vagina. Even after that, you still arent a real women either.

Drugs and therapy come from the same well, dude... getting that vagina may be cheaper than the years and years of drugs and therapy....

 

[chardog]

I am still waiting for a valid medical reason. I am dead serious. Point me to a study. Point me to a case where someone needed the tranny change to stay healthy and not die. SHOW ME FOR FUCKS SAKE!

PROFIT is a necessity

 

[glennrod]

Many of the people in this thread - most notably glennrod .

Delicious post. Implying that there is something wrong with ME, for not believing that a person can be whatever sex he/she feels like,,, :icon_lol:

 

[o'dubhlaoich]

Why not ask a doctor, or Google it?

Well I guess since we are having a conversation that someone would share their opinion in detail

 

[Jukai]

Delicious post. Implying that there is something wrong with ME, for not believing that a person can be whatever sex he/she feels like,,, :icon_lol:

Well, you do react violently whenever someone tells you should think...

 

[glennrod]

Well, you do react violently whenever someone tells you should think...

Violently?. Not sure about that....

 

[Jukai]

Violently?. Not sure about that....

I over-exaggerated for dramatic effect.

 

[RumDiaries]

I am still waiting for a valid medical reason. I am dead serious. Point me to a study. Point me to a case where someone needed the tranny change to stay healthy and not die. SHOW ME FOR FUCKS SAKE!

Because they feeeeeeeel like the opposite sex.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

So the fact the modern health care professionals across the world suggest and perform this as a remedy to what appears to be a legitimate psychological issue doesn't matter to you, you've just figured it as wrong? I thought gender change surgery is generally considered a relatively uncontroversial treatment for those who clearly need it - which it seems to be lots of cases. Why should this be restricted if it's conducive to living a better life and endorsed by medical professionals?

I can only speak from my experience in my country (uk) but it's not just a case of deciding you're not the right sex and want to change on a whim. It requires years of diagnosis and psychological testing and doctors recommendation before this is even an option. I presume the standards in the US are similar, especially with your hc system.

Again I'm not expert but you guys just seem like you haven't even thought about it.

Health professionals say that you should eat a healthy diet and that you should take all your meds as prescribed, but we still have elderly that choose between the 2 because their SS check wont cover everything.

How about we (the US) take care of our elderly, military vets, and physically disabled people first then we can talk about giving money to Larry to cut his junk off and paying for expensive hormones for life.


And since we're talking about US tax dollars; I'd say anyone in the US that actually pays taxes (because their are fewer and fewer of us) automatically deserves to have an opinion on the issue regardless of medical background.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Yeah, and people on particular types of disability. According to my back of the napkin estimate when my wife and I were talking about this last night this will affect around a dozen people :icon_chee. (obviously I don't know how many but the number is certainly small)

Good for them I say. I'm fine with my medicare contributions (or whatever) going to this, certainly more fine than I am to have to pay for treatment of cirrhosis or lung cancer.

The easiest way to be approved for disability is mental disorder - much like the guy that from Michigan that was on it for having a baby fetish.

 

[JaPo]

Health professionals say that you should eat a healthy diet and that you should take all your meds as prescribed, but we still have elderly that choose between the 2 because their SS check wont cover everything.

How about we (the US) take care of our elderly, military vets, and physically disabled people first then we can talk about giving money to Larry to cut his junk off and paying for expensive hormones for life.

And since we're talking about US tax dollars; I'd say anyone in the US that actually pays taxes (because their are fewer and fewer of us) automatically deserves to have an opinion on the issue regardless of medical background.

Again, the suggestion here is that 'Larry' decides one day he fancies becoming a woman and that his issue is inherently illegitimate or at least not 'important' enough to attempt to remedy with tax funds. You may try and deny it, but your distaste for the idea of transgenderism colours your entire perspective on this. You don't need to have an extensive medical background, but at minimum you should understand that the medical establishment has judged it to be a matter of far greater importance than 'Larry cutting off his junk'. Otherwise, you cannot hope to offer an informed opinion, which is surely what we must all strive for in these sorts of discussions.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Given the likely exorbitant cost of individual cases, it's not ideal that these procedures will be subsidised by the government.

However, very few people in this thread have demonstrated an even somewhat developed understanding of transgenderism. No surprise from the likes of PainIsLife. But of course, like gay people and their sexual orientation, transgender people just decide on a whim to have sex reassignment surgery for a bit of fun. It's fashionable. Lol.

There's a lot of shit covered by public insurance that isn't ideal, too, and at much greater cst. No surprise the dimwit's emotional distaste for transgenderism would make this such a huge issue.

What's to understand? I've seen the Brandon Teana movie and watched doc. on the subject.


While you're trying to explain my lack of understanding, you might want to check out a few links:

http://standpointmag.co.uk/the-oper...eatures-november-09-julie-bindel-transsexuals

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21364939

http://www.couragerc.net/Transsexual_Issues/Sex_Reassignment.pdf



Perhaps you can also educate me on why a person with a mental disorder should be given 70k in tax dollars to change their sex and then have tax dollars to continue to pay for their hormone therapy instead of actually treating the issue.

http://www.sexchangeregret.com/research

http://waltheyer.typepad.com/

:redface:

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Again, the suggestion here is that 'Larry' decides one day he fancies becoming a woman and that his issue is inherently illegitimate or at least not 'important' enough to attempt to remedy with tax funds. You may try and deny it, but your distaste for the idea of transgenderism colours your entire perspective on this. You don't need to have an extensive medical background, but at minimum you should understand that the medical establishment has judged it to be a matter of far greater importance than 'Larry cutting off his junk'. Otherwise, you cannot hope to offer an informed opinion, which is surely what we must all strive for in these sorts of discussions.

I don't believe that Larry one day just decided that he was Lana; I do believe that Larry has a mental disorder and the fact that the AMA removed it as a mental disorder last year doesn't change the fact that it is indeed a mental disorder.

I don't take issue with the idea transgenderism - although I'm sure you know what I think of it - I take issue with spending tax money to assist a mental illusion.

As for what the experts have said, perhaps it's time to see what all the experts have said:

Berger, who is a consulting psychiatrist in Toronto and whose list of credentials establishes him as an expert in the field of mental illness, stated that people who identify themselves as "transgendered" are mentally ill or simply unhappy, and pointed out that hormone therapy and surgery are not appropriate treatments for psychosis or unhappiness.

"The medical treatment of delusions, psychosis or emotional happiness is not surgery," Dr. Berger stated.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/ps...fically-there-is-no-such-thing-as-transgender



-John Hopkins University hospital, under the leadership of the famed psychiatrist Dr. Paul McHugh, discontinued sex-change surgery years ago.


-Dr. Paul McHugh believes that adult males who wish to surgically alter themselves to appear anatomically female fall into two main groups: (1) "conflicted and guilt-ridden homosexual men"[26] and (2) "heterosexual (and some bisexual) males who found intense sexual arousal in cross-dressing as females".[27] McHugh, had several other impressions: First, "they [the transgendered individuals] were little changed in their psychological condition. They had much the same problems with relationships, work, and emotions as before. The hope that they would emerge now from their emotional difficulties to flourish psychologically had not been fulfilled"

-According to a study published in General Psychiatry, “Sex reassignment surgery confers no objective advantage in terms of social rehabilitation” (Meyer MD, et al.)

 

[JaPo]

What's to understand? I've seen the Brandon Teana movie and watched doc. on the subject.


While you're trying to explain my lack of understanding, you might want to check out a few links:

http://standpointmag.co.uk/the-oper...eatures-november-09-julie-bindel-transsexuals

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21364939

http://www.couragerc.net/Transsexual_Issues/Sex_Reassignment.pdf



Perhaps you can also educate me on why a person with a mental disorder should be given 70k in tax dollars to change their sex and then have tax dollars to continue to pay for their hormone therapy instead of actually treating the issue.

http://www.sexchangeregret.com/research

http://waltheyer.typepad.com/

:redface:

So you're telling me, PainIsLife, that you've truly explored the topic, read this 'literature' and come to an informed conclusion yet still simplify sex change operations to Larry 'wanting to cut his junk off'. Sorry, you're being disingenuous here.

At no point have I suggested that transgenderism and sex change operations are not fraught. Absolutely, they are. Nor am I suggesting that the medical establishment should offer sex-change operations and lifelong prescriptions for expensive hormones willy-nilly and at the first opportunity. No part of me thinks that and I in fact put great faith in psychiatric solutions and their utility over more symptom-alleviating measures. This does not, however, mean I see it reasonable to flippantly downplay the issue as a matter of 'fancy' or merely a problem of dysfunctional childhoods (as I expect you do).

People are born in the wrong bodies. This is pretty well accepted by the establishment. Unfortunately, I don't believe it is an issue that is always treatable through counselling and psychiatric procedures. Maybe that's where we ultimately differ.

EDIT: Just seen your above post after I'd replied, so I apologise if my tone is not inkeeping with your additions. Again, the failure of sex change operations to provide any lasting psychological relief to some patients does not mean it is entirely useless as a procedure. There are likewise many cases to the contrary. Regrettably the manner in which post-op individuals are treated by other members of society no doubt contributes to some cases of limited success.

 

[o'dubhlaoich]

Health professionals say that you should eat a healthy diet and that you should take all your meds as prescribed, but we still have elderly that choose between the 2 because their SS check wont cover everything.

How about we (the US) take care of our elderly, military vets, and physically disabled people first then we can talk about giving money to Larry to cut his junk off and paying for expensive hormones for life.


And since we're talking about US tax dollars; I'd say anyone in the US that actually pays taxes (because their are fewer and fewer of us) automatically deserves to have an opinion on the issue regardless of medical background.

This is my issue. I am still waiting for at least a quote as to why a mental disorder like transgenderism is of great medical importance.

 

[o'dubhlaoich]

Again, the suggestion here is that 'Larry' decides one day he fancies becoming a woman and that his issue is inherently illegitimate or at least not 'important' enough to attempt to remedy with tax funds. You may try and deny it, but your distaste for the idea of transgenderism colours your entire perspective on this. You don't need to have an extensive medical background, but at minimum you should understand that the medical establishment has judged it to be a matter of far greater importance than 'Larry cutting off his junk'. Otherwise, you cannot hope to offer an informed opinion, which is surely what we must all strive for in these sorts of discussions.

I am still waiting to be informed about the subject.

 

[o'dubhlaoich]

I don't believe that Larry one day just decided that he was Lana; I do believe that Larry has a mental disorder and the fact that the AMA removed it as a mental disorder last year doesn't change the fact that it is indeed a mental disorder.

I don't take issue with the idea transgenderism - although I'm sure you know what I think of it - I take issue with spending tax money to assist a mental illusion.

As for what the experts have said, perhaps it's time to see what all the experts have said:

Berger, who is a consulting psychiatrist in Toronto and whose list of credentials establishes him as an expert in the field of mental illness, stated that people who identify themselves as "transgendered" are mentally ill or simply unhappy, and pointed out that hormone therapy and surgery are not appropriate treatments for psychosis or unhappiness.

"The medical treatment of delusions, psychosis or emotional happiness is not surgery," Dr. Berger stated.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/ps...fically-there-is-no-such-thing-as-transgender



-John Hopkins University hospital, under the leadership of the famed psychiatrist Dr. Paul McHugh, discontinued sex-change surgery years ago.


-Dr. Paul McHugh believes that adult males who wish to surgically alter themselves to appear anatomically female fall into two main groups: (1) "conflicted and guilt-ridden homosexual men"[26] and (2) "heterosexual (and some bisexual) males who found intense sexual arousal in cross-dressing as females".[27] McHugh, had several other impressions: First, "they [the transgendered individuals] were little changed in their psychological condition. They had much the same problems with relationships, work, and emotions as before. The hope that they would emerge now from their emotional difficulties to flourish psychologically had not been fulfilled"

-According to a study published in General Psychiatry,

 

[JaPo]

I am still waiting to be informed about the subject.

What do you want to be informed about? The fact transgenderism is a legitimate medical condition/psychiatric disorder? There are genuinely countless studies easily reachable on the internet. If you want something that will satisfy your fallacious appeal for a "case where someone needed the tranny change to stay healthy and not die" then you're not going to find it here. By your reckoning we may as well ignore all mental health issues (even those for veterans) because they don't directly cause death or physical breakdown. It's of medical importance because people are miserable and depressed as a consequence of their condition. Do you deny this and believe these people are all just passingly delusional and should just 'suck it up' and get on with things?