Crime Mango Molester's sentencing

He’s not behind bars because he ran for office and won while effectively delaying his court cases. But agree, he didn’t beat any court cases. He beat Kamala.

Imagine if Dems had their shit together and didn't let him win? He wouldn't be able to pardon himself. He'd be in actual trouble.
Which is kinda why my point is that they should abandon obsessing about this past stuff (especially now that they basically can't touch him) and figure out how to win going forward. Doesn't seem they're bright enough to do that though.
 
Yes the whole call was released but again not surprised in the slightest that you're unaware despite the confidence in which you speak about the case and its supposed "political motivations"

The whole point of the phone call is to repeat baseless claims about outcome determinative voter fraud, for which there is no evidence, so that Raffensperger can overturn the GA election.

You do need to establish that if you're arguing that is indeed what happened. You don't even know the specifics of the case but I should take your baseless musing for granted? Can you see why I wouldn't when you're unaware of some of the most basic details of the case?

Idk who you think you're talking to here, I'm not some DNC operative. I talk about Jan 6th because any principled person who believes in the liberal principles our constitution is based on can see can see that what Trump was blatantly wrong. I would rather Trump got impeached and imprisoned for Jan 6th in the next four years only for a non-MAGA GOP candidate to win in 2028 than to see Trump get away with it even if it means Dems win in four years. I care more about the country's liberal institutions and norms than I do any one party and if anything Trump's win has energized populists on the Democrat side. I don't want Dems to assimilate the lunatic populists even if it means they might have a better chance of winning in four years.

No, I dont need to establish that it's highly likely that political rivals would be motivated to take out what they see as a monster. I'm not arguing in a court of law dude, I'm giving my opinion. They can be right AND be politically motivated. Which is what I said from the start. They aren't mutually exclusive. You realize that, yes?

I started out by addressing this from the Dem point of view. I understand I'm not speaking to you when I gave that opinion, you replied to it and thus we've gone back and forth but my original thoughts weren't regarding what YOU think. It was what the Dems should DO in order to gain back what they lost.
 
No, I dont need to establish that it's highly likely that political rivals would be motivated to take out what they see as a monster. I'm not arguing in a court of law dude, I'm giving my opinion.
Yes but your opinion isn't based in fact or understanding of the case so more than likely its reflexive partisanship rather than a serious take based on the facts of the matter.
They can be right AND be politically motivated. Which is what I said from the start. They aren't mutually exclusive. You realize that, yes?
Yes they can be but that doesn't mean they necessarily are, you understand that right?
I started out by addressing this from the Dem point of view. I understand I'm not speaking to you when I gave that opinion, you replied to it and thus we've gone back and forth but my original thoughts weren't regarding what YOU think. It was what the Dems should DO in order to gain back what they lost.
And I totally disagree that we should just let Trump get away with trying to prevent the peaceful transfer of power like you're advocating for and that Dems would be gravely in the wrong to do so.
 
Yes but your opinion isn't based in fact or understanding of the case so more than likely its reflexive partisanship rather than a serious take based on the facts of the matter.

Yes they can be but that doesn't mean they necessarily are, you understand that right?

And I totally disagree that we should just let Trump get away with trying to prevent the peaceful transfer of power like you're advocating for and that Dems would be gravely in the wrong to do so.

No offense, but it's utterly absurd that you'd think in 2025 after the rhetoric about how awful the guy is that it's not logical to assign SOME level of political motivation to his enemies going after him (again, even if they're justified in doing so). In fact, I actually refuse to believe you're that ignorant of human nature and the history of politics and power in general. Which makes me wonder why you'd so vehemently try to claim there's no basis to assign any political motivations.

The thing is...he got away with it. Know how he maybe wouldn't have? The Dems winning and him not being able to pardon himself. That's over. So...sure. They can continue to fight that losing battle. Or they can look ahead and focus on winning things that are possible to win.
 
No offense, but it's utterly absurd that you'd think in 2025 after the rhetoric about how awful the guy is that it's not logical to assign SOME level of political motivation to his enemies going after him (again, even if they're justified in doing so). In fact, I actually refuse to believe you're that ignorant of human nature and the history of politics and power in general. Which makes me wonder why you'd so vehemently try to claim there's no basis to assign any political motivations.
What rhetoric did Merrick Garland or Jack Smith engage in that makes you think the Jan 6th indictment was political? You're not even aware of the most basic facts of this case and yet you have this level of confidence? Don't you have any humility about your own admitted lack of knowledge here? Doesn't seem like you're even slightly interested in the possiblity that you're wrong or even the facts of the matter in general.
The thing is...he got away with it.
Yeah and that's bad, somehow my saying that is wrong? You're not bothered that a guy got away with trying to steal an election?
 
Imagine if Dems had their shit together and didn't let him win? He wouldn't be able to pardon himself. He'd be in actual trouble.
Which is kinda why my point is that they should abandon obsessing about this past stuff (especially now that they basically can't touch him) and figure out how to win going forward. Doesn't seem they're bright enough to do that though.
They didn’t “let” him win.

That’s not what you’re doing though. You literally said it was a “political witch hunt”. That’s being pretty dismissive of the evidence against him, of which you’ve acknowledged a lacking of the facts.
 
What rhetoric did Merrick Garland or Jack Smith engage in that makes you think the Jan 6th indictment was political? You're not even aware of the most basic facts of this case and yet you have this level of confidence? Don't you have any humility about your own admitted lack of knowledge here? Doesn't seem like you're even slightly interested in the possiblity that you're wrong or even the facts of the matter in general.

Yeah and that's bad, somehow my saying that is wrong? You're not bothered that a guy got away with trying to steal an election?

Garland has no political leanings? Sheesh. Again, I'm not saying he isn't guilty. You're harping on me not following the details but they're irrelevant in whether or not political enemies would try to go after him. Of course they would.

And no, you saying it isn't bad. When did I claim that? In fact, I literally just said my initial point was directed at the Dems. You replied to me, remember?
 
I think it's that most thought this was political. Even Andrew Cuomo the former attorney General of NY and former governor of NY said that the charges in NY wouldn't have been brought if it wasn't Trump. 66% of New Yorkers believed it political. It's why his poll numbers actually went up and not down. Many did not trust how the system was being used. That being said, if he is convicted with no time he is still convicted. I don't know the technicality that some are speaking of.
Depends on the purpose. For licensing eligibility, background checks etc, you don't have a conviction on your record until after sentencing, it's just open charges. Conversationally, which was all this was for anyway, people can just use being found guilty as "convicted" even though it wouldn't show up as that on a background check.

Doesn't really make any difference anyway. The whole purpose was for the conversational use of the term "convicted felon" hoping to control the election outcome, but it backfired when they had to keep using the blanket term "felon" because nobody could say what the felony part of it even was, including the judge and jury, and "don't ask any follow up questions" isn't exactly convincing. The most common guess in the billion page thread was using campaign funds to make an otherwise legal payment, which is the opposite of the campaign finance option, and the "NY tax law" option was trying to convince people that democrats are prosecuting a billionaire for developing a scheme to pay too much in taxes.
 
Nah. It was all just an attempt to derail his election. Now that hes elected they aren't really going to devote any more time to all this nonsense.

End of thread... lol

They threw every shit charge they could in the friendliest district in the nation (80% Democrat)... and they still failed.

Glorious... fuck 'em

Keep crying bitches
 
Garland has no political leanings? Sheesh.
That's not what I said, I asked what rhetoric did he or Jack Smith engage in that suggests to you that the decision to charge Trump was politically motivated here and so far you haven't produced a shred of evidence that there was any such political motivation. In fact you've admitted to being more or less completely ignorant about the relevant facts of the matter and yet you speak with such confidence on the case.
Again, I'm not saying he isn't guilty. You're harping on me not following the details but they're irrelevant in whether or not political enemies would try to go after him. Of course they would.
The details are relevant though because given how egregious his crimes were it makes complete sense that the DOJ would try to hold him accountable absent any political motivation, if anything they might have been politically motivated in the opposite direction as they might've been weary about bringing charges against a former president until it was too late.
 
Yes, they still stand. He will have those convictions on his record, and American did indeed elect their first convicted felon for POTUS before they elected their first woman for POTUS.

And the democrats ran such a shitty candidate with such a shit platform that he beat them in votes and the electorial and the Republicans took both houses.

But the democrats have found the problem they just need to go more to the left on everything. Yea that will fix it.
 
That's not what I said, I asked what rhetoric did he or Jack Smith engage in that suggests to you that the decision to charge Trump was politically motivated here and so far you haven't produced a shred of evidence that there was any such political motivation. In fact you've admitted to being more or less completely ignorant about the relevant facts of the matter and yet you speak with such confidence on the case.

The details are relevant though because given how egregious his crimes were it makes complete sense that the DOJ would try to hold him accountable absent any political motivation, if anything they might have been politically motivated in the opposite direction as they might've been weary about bringing charges against a former president until it was too late.

So you admit Garland has political leanings that align with those who have used extreme rhetoric regarding Trump (plenty of it deserved, but extreme nonetheless) and you think because the rhetoric didn't come directly from him that means there's no basis to assign political motives? Are you serious? I don't need to "present evidence", we're not in court LOL! A simple understanding of human nature more than suffices here, man. Cmon. You're claiming I'm "speaking with such confidence"...where exactly is that? I gave my opinion that it's likely there's political motivations. Based on the most rudimentary understanding of power, politics, and human nature. That's it. Unless you'd quote where I've said otherwise?
 
So you admit Garland has political leanings that align with those who have used extreme rhetoric regarding Trump (plenty of it deserved, but extreme nonetheless)
No I didn't. Garland is a moderate if anything. He was chosen by Obama as a nominee to the SCOTUS for that reason and he was chosen by Biden to head the DOJ for that reason as well. But it doesn't matter because people like you will say whatever they do is political regardless.
and you think because the rhetoric didn't come directly from him that means there's no basis to assign political motives? Are you serious?
So in other words, no you can't point to any rhetoric that would suggest political motivated by either Jack Smith or Merrick Garland? Also I asked you this earlier and you didn't respond directly
Yes they can be but that doesn't mean they necessarily are, you understand that right?
You understand that just because something might be politically motivated that doesn't mean it necessarily is right?
I don't need to "present evidence", we're not in court LOL!
I love how flippant you are about the idea of citing evidence to support our opinions. Yeah who would ever think of doing that?
A simple understanding of human nature more than suffices here, man. Cmon. You're claiming I'm "speaking with such confidence"...where exactly is that? I gave my opinion that it's likely there's political motivations. Based on the most rudimentary understanding of power, politics, and human nature. That's it. Unless you'd quote where I've said otherwise?
Yes you are speaking with confidence, you're taking for granted that the Jack Smith indictment was politically motivated despite being more or less completely ignorant of all the relevant facts of the matter and not only that you're acting like its weird that I won't concede to your baseless opinion.
 
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No offense, but it's utterly absurd that you'd think in 2025 after the rhetoric about how awful the guy is that it's not logical to assign SOME level of political motivation to his enemies going after him (again, even if they're justified in doing so). In fact, I actually refuse to believe you're that ignorant of human nature and the history of politics and power in general. Which makes me wonder why you'd so vehemently try to claim there's no basis to assign any political motivations.

The thing is...he got away with it. Know how he maybe wouldn't have? The Dems winning and him not being able to pardon himself. That's over. So...sure. They can continue to fight that losing battle. Or they can look ahead and focus on winning things that are possible to win.
Why in the actual fuck would you be content to accept that you live in a nation where you can evade prosecution for crimes for which you are clearly guilty just by running for office?
 
Depends on the purpose. For licensing eligibility, background checks etc, you don't have a conviction on your record until after sentencing, it's just open charges. Conversationally, which was all this was for anyway, people can just use being found guilty as "convicted" even though it wouldn't show up as that on a background check.

Doesn't really make any difference anyway. The whole purpose was for the conversational use of the term "convicted felon" hoping to control the election outcome, but it backfired when they had to keep using the blanket term "felon" because nobody could say what the felony part of it even was, including the judge and jury, and "don't ask any follow up questions" isn't exactly convincing. The most common guess in the billion page thread was using campaign funds to make an otherwise legal payment, which is the opposite of the campaign finance option, and the "NY tax law" option was trying to convince people that democrats are prosecuting a billionaire for developing a scheme to pay too much in taxes.
Thanks for the feedback and few things I didnt know. Yeah we agree on the political reasoning for it all. I'm just saying that he would in fact be a conviction and most of america didn't buy it.
 
No I didn't. Garland is a moderate if anything. He was chosen by Obama as a nominee to the SCOTUS for that reason and he was chosen by Biden to head the DOJ for that reason as well. But it doesn't matter because people like you will say whatever they do as political regardless.

So in other words, no you can't point to any rhetoric that would suggest political motivated by either Jack Smith or Merrick Garland? Also I asked you this earlier and you didn't respond directly

You understand that just because something might be politically motivated that doesn't mean it necessarily is right?

I love how flippant you are about the idea of citing evidence to support our opinions. Yeah who would ever think of doing that?

Yes you are speaking with confidence, you're taking for granted that the Jack Smith indictment was politically motivated despite being more or less completely ignorant of all the relevant facts of the matter and not only that you're acting like its weird that I won't concede to your baseless opinion.

Garland has shown his leanings, dancing around as though he's not aligned more closely with very anti Trump people by calling him a moderate is fluff.

Yes, I can be flippant because I'm able to connect very plain dots. There's a difference between an opinion and an assertion. I'm going to assume you know that. My view is that given those involved, it's likely there's at least some level of political motivation. I'm not claiming I know it for sure. I'm saying to me it's likely given how politics tend to work. You can disagree, but we both know an acting AG isn't going to spout something partisan in a situation like this regardless of whether he has any political motivations or not.

I think its weird that you don't understand how someone else might assign political motivations. I don't "expect" you to cede anything.
 
Why in the actual fuck would you be content to accept that you live in a nation where you can evade prosecution for crimes for which you are clearly guilty just by running for office?
It has nothing to do with "contentness". It has to do with what's actually achievable. I can't stand Trump, I'll be glad when he's gone. But he's here, my life goes on, and rehashing the shit from 2020 isn't gonna remove him from office.

How have things worked out for the Dems as of now with the course they've charted? Trump will be gone in 4 years, dead not long after most likely. He's not the first nor will he be the last to evade prosecution for crimes he likely committed. My point is that it probably makes more sense to focus on shit they can control than keep railing out that he got away with it.
 
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