Social Looks like queueing is on the way out.

[chill doggie]

If they're forced to I expect they do. The point is I don't think they will without being forced. I've never been to Mexico or a Third World country.

It is a cultural understanding that you form a line anywhere that there is the need for orderly access to services or goods, whether it is to vote, buy tickets, pay for stuff, etc..

As soon as you’re in elementary in school there you form a line on Monday morning during the flag ceremony and you stand there in formation, before being sent to the classroom in numerical order.


No one is standing there with a stick.

 

[SirRealKiller]

So as an American living in America where this term is not used:

I take it in context of just being orderly? Like waiting your turn politely? Is that it?

If so, yes, that has taken a dump since I was a kid. We were always taught to wait your turn but more and more kids are taught "get yours first" and have no patience. Everyone for themselves with no regard for anyone else. This spills into all aspects of society too. It's creating disorder in society which is going to be a problem. More so in urban areas where this has declined the fastest and has the highest concentration of people.

I mean, I'm probably the grumpy old guy at the store but I have had to tell younger adults to get their ass in the back of the line after purposely cutting in front of an old lady. Sorry if I'm old fashion Gen-Xer but there has to be some order and respect in society.

 

[Kowboy On Sherdog]

Bishop finally got him?

 

[650lb Sumo]

It is a cultural understanding that you form a line anywhere that there is the need for orderly access to services or goods, whether it is to vote, buy tickets, pay for stuff, etc..

As soon as you’re in elementary in school there you form a line on Monday morning during the flag ceremony and you stand there in formation, before being sent to the classroom in numerical order.
View attachment 1069114
View attachment 1069115
No one is standing there with a stick.

Thanks for the info!

 

[blaseblase]

As an American I have no clue what you guys are talking about.

 

[blaseblase]

It is a cultural understanding that you form a line anywhere that there is the need for orderly access to services or goods, whether it is to vote, buy tickets, pay for stuff, etc..

As soon as you’re in elementary in school there you form a line on Monday morning during the flag ceremony and you stand there in formation, before being sent to the classroom in numerical order.

The annoying thing is people forming a line when it isn't needed. There's this market I go to pretty regularly. You pick which lane you want to pay at and you wait there. But ever since the pandemic people have been forming this "primary" line where everyone waits. The employees don't encourage this, they ask people on the regular to choose a lane to wait at. So every time I go there I have to ask the idiot in front of me which lane they are waiting at. It's annoying.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

It is a cultural understanding that you form a line anywhere that there is the need for orderly access to services or goods, whether it is to vote, buy tickets, pay for stuff, etc..

As soon as you’re in elementary in school there you form a line on Monday morning during the flag ceremony and you stand there in formation, before being sent to the classroom in numerical order.
View attachment 1069114
View attachment 1069115
No one is standing there with a stick.

Yeah, a quick google search of literally an Latin American country and "long line" will get you hundreds, if not thousands, of examples of people lining up. No police or other authority figures around either.

Train station in Peru:

Government building in Colombia:

Registering kids at a school in Honduras:

Government building in Bolivia:

Rich countries are obviously more orderly as a whole but to focus specifically on queueing and suggesting that only northern European countries have this as a cultural norms is... strange.

 

[chill doggie]

Yeah, a quick google search of literally an Latin American country and "long line" will get you hundreds, if not thousands, of examples of people lining up. No police or other authority figures around either.

Train station in Peru:

Government building in Colombia:

Registering kids at a school in Honduras:

Government building in Bolivia:

Rich countries are obviously more orderly as a whole but to focus specifically on queueing and suggesting that only northern European countries have this as a cultural norms is... strange.

My mom is Mexican and she’s always had an obsession with punctuality, she’ll wake up at 4:00am to be the first in line.

 

[Contempt]

Had to google to understand that wall o text

"In Australia, the term "queue-jumper" has also been used to describe asylum seekers who arrive in the country without a valid visa. "

Except, they aren't even asylum seekers. That term has a specific, internationally recognised, legal definition where they are required to apply for asylum at the first safe country. Most of these assholes are traveling from the other side of the world to move to the rich western country.

They are economic migrants. So yeah, that's why they are known as queue jumpers in Australia - they just want to skip the queue and not apply to move here through proper channels.

 

[Jesus X]

If they're forced to I expect they do. The point is I don't think they will without being forced. I've never been to Mexico.

You obviously dont know mexicans in Mexico most people are even more well mannered than Americans there is a lot couth and decorum when speaking or doing things in mexico. we as americans come off as assholes when we go to Mexico because our manners are usually bad especially with gen Z.

 

[650lb Sumo]

If they're forced to I expect they do. The point is I don't think they will without being forced. I've never been to Mexico or a Third World country.

We're back to caste, which I posted about a while ago.

There are those who understand/follow/try to enforce the rules by themselves.
There are those who wouldn't have done that by themselves, but when properly brought up/educated, will.
There are those who will only follow the rules when someone stands over them with a stick.
And there are those who won't follow the rules even then.

If the proportions of the first two castes are too low, or if they lose authority, you get a ****hole country.

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer

Of course there are nice, affluent safe areas even in the worst countries, and chaotic ghettos even in the best.

I think the change is mainly on the nurture side of nature/nurture for once. Our culture has changed much faster than the genetics of our countries. I suspect the proportions of Castes One and Four have changed less, and the change is fewer people are being brought up into Caste Two, and the stick is more and more absent to keep Caste Three in line.

Like with shoplifting, even where it's effectively decriminalised most people don't do it. But now Castes Three and Four will start to kill the shop, until it either reverts to the pre-supermarket age, where you have to ask the staff for each product, or closes.

The Black community in the USA used to be much more orderly and decorous than it is now.

Some people ITT seem to be struggling with the 'stick' metaphor. I don't mean (most of the time) a literal person standing there with a stick ready to whack you for jumping ahead in the queue. It's usually something more subtle, it could be a variety of mental/physical/verbal/cultural/moral measures which inhibit/punish antisocial behaviour. I think Christianity played a large role in this in fact. So the 'stick' has been removed to a large extent from this community, meaning antisocial behaviours tend to dominate, meaning the social fabric deteriorates towards a sort of dystopian horizon where everyone is either a thug or a ho. It's the only way to hold your own in a society like that.

Seems like White/everyone else society is headed in that direction, a few decades behind the Black subculture.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

As society degenerates I've started noticing in the last couple of years that people are violating queues more and more in Anglo countries. Queueing has been a shibboleth distinguishing high tier from medium and low tier countries. Now I see people deliberately violating queues pretty often. And I know what you're thinking, but most of the time it's British people, or if not a German or something.

It's rare for anyone except me to challenge the violators, even after I've spoken up first. Including the staff. That's NPCs for you.

In high tier countries traditionally public places are safe and pleasant. Even inviting. Clean, tidy, safe, friendly and polite people, everything is in order, people follow the rules, signage is clear and its grammar and punctuation are correct etc. As society deteriorates this changes. Public spaces become threatening, dirty, disorderly, chaotic and unpleasant. You have to be prepared for conflict, and you had better be strong. This is what's happening. As I go and do errands I encounter a constant stream of minor aggressions and transgressions.

People crowding around the bus or train doors, hindering you getting out
People pushing on before people have got off
Queue jumping
Rudeness and lying from shop/counter staff
Incorrect punctuation and grammar and incomplete/incorrect information on notices
Littering
Unprovoked verbal aggression against strangers
Shoplifting
Vandalism
People just being loud, obnoxious and intrusive in general
Playing audio on your phone in a public place
Shining lights unnecessarily on paths when it's dark
Homeless/mentally ill/aggressive beggars etc. sitting drinking, smoking and blasting music on loud portable loudspeakers in the bus station 24/7
Government officials/businesses not responding to your letter/email/voicemail etc.
Businesses giving you four, or even eight hour slots for when the person will come

and so on

I remember things being better.

Death Of The Queue? TripAdvisor Research Highlights Rise Of The Queue Jump Generation

Queuing is a dying trait amongst younger Australians, research commissioned by TripAdvisor and backed by a British behavioural psychologist and queuing expert suggests. While almost three quarters...

tripadvisor.mediaroom.com

Queuing is a dying trait amongst younger Australians, research commissioned by TripAdvisor and backed by a British behavioural psychologist and queuing expert suggests.

While almost three quarters of the nation (69%) claim they’ve never queue jumped, this figure is in sharp decline amongst Australia’s youth as a battle of the generations plays out in queues across the country. Millennials (25-34 y/os) are more than twice as likely to push in front than Baby Boomers (42% Millennials vs 17% Boomers)**. On the flip side, more than two thirds (75%) of Baby Boomers consider queue cutting the height of bad manners, compared to under half (38%) of Millennials.

Why Can't Generation Z Queue Properly? — THE WHOLESOME SHOW

Over the millions of years of evolution, we humans have developed into a highly intelligent species. We’ve developed the ability to communicate, we’ve created social order, and established norms and protocols that facilitate a (mostly) harmonious coexistence. Take, for example, the fact that we all

www.wholesomeshow.com

One survey in Britain found Generation Z (18-24 year-olds) are seven times more likely to cut in line than baby boomers. Similarly, Gen Z seemed pretty unfazed by queue jumpers, with just 28% thinking it was bad (not sure if they’d feel the same if they were standing in line for the latest pair of Nike Air Jordans?). Baby Boomers, on the other hand, well 66% of them say queue jumping is bad behaviour.

If current trends continue there's going to be a sort of Reversion of the Castes and Second World, then high end Third World countries are going to be the safe, clean and orderly ones while Western countries become the ****holes.

Trains at rush hour have always been chaos like that. That's not a new thing.

 

[650lb Sumo]

 

[Natural Order]

Lines are oppressive. Anarchy is the more poignant solution…

 

[Berserker13]

that word should be on the way out

 

[Wilmer Digreux]

Let me cut u off there...

 

[650lb Sumo]

People asking for directions, you give them, and they just walk off

People starting conversations without a salutation

People starting shouting to you from a distance, where you have to strain to shout and hear, instead of waiting a few seconds for you to approach each other closely enough to have a normal conversation.

Expanding on the OP

People make some kind of mistake, wrong price on shop shelf, missing month on poster advertising event, it could be in many contexts, you point it out, and they get angry at you and are rude. If there's some kind of overwatch forcing them to correct the error or else they will be punished, they will (getting back to the caste system). Although you may have to go back and forth with them lying and pretending several times before they do. Otherwise they won't.

You write to a company, the local government etc and they don't answer. Or call or email or whatever. Again, if you can FOIA them you can effectively force them to answer otherwise they get the Stick. Although anyone who has done a FOIA or two knows that a prompt and helpful answer is far from assured. Sometimes if you go to head office they will sort things out after the common and garden employees have repeatedly failed to answer, or refused to stop lying, but increasingly not.

I remember a society when these behaviours would be surprising, very surprising perhaps.

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

 

[650lb Sumo]

 

[lowlife]

"In high tier countries traditionally public places are safe and pleasant. Even inviting. Clean, tidy, safe, friendly and polite people, everything is in order, people follow the rules, signage is clear and its grammar and punctuation are correct etc. As society deteriorates this changes. Public spaces become threatening, dirty, disorderly, chaotic and unpleasant. You have to be prepared for conflict, and you had better be strong. This is what's happening. As I go and do errands I encounter a constant stream of minor aggressions and transgressions.

People crowding around the bus or train doors, hindering you getting out
People pushing on before people have got off
Queue jumping
Rudeness and lying from shop/counter staff
Incorrect punctuation and grammar and incomplete/incorrect information on notices
Littering
Unprovoked verbal aggression against strangers
Shoplifting
Vandalism
People just being loud, obnoxious and intrusive in general
Playing audio on your phone in a public place
Shining lights unnecessarily on paths when it's dark
Homeless/mentally ill/aggressive beggars etc. sitting drinking, smoking and blasting music on loud portable loudspeakers in the bus station 24/7
Government officials/businesses not responding to your letter/email/voicemail etc.
Businesses giving you four, or even eight hour slots for when the person will come"

I agree with this 100% and have noticed a clear and distinct deterioration of social etiquette in my lifetime.