Media LMAO @ how bad the HW division will look after Jon retires

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

Its a pretty weak division but tbh talent wise its still better than the UFCs HW division had been at any point before the very late 00s, which is more or less the entire first half of the UFCs existence.

I think the bigger issue is just a general lack of buzz and star power, which makes the talent level seem worse than it is (again, not saying its great). A WWE wrestler in his 4th MMA fight vs a 45 year old LHW for the title doesnt exactly scream high level but the difference was it was two big stars fighting and there was buzz around it.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

How can he, there is no one to fight at HW to give him credibilty to surpass even Stipe or Ngannou.

You are as good as your competition, if your competition is shit so are your wins. His best win is Volkov, a guy who was a gate keeper at best in a tougher HW division. A guy Kongo put a beating on and I think still does. Next best win is Pav and if he beats Gane, that would be a top division win but who else.

Tom needs actual elite competition to surpass any other HW champion, let alone a man like jones, GSP, Silva who are at the top of that list. HW currently does not have any one credible for that to happen in Toms career. Beating Blaydes for the 10th time is not going to do that.

I dont necessarily disagree with you, and I dont expect Tom to become some ATG or anything, but then Fedor is considered the GOAT HW largely because of the length of his win streak rather than the actual quality of opposition he beat.

 

[moreorless87]

Its a pretty weak division but tbh talent wise its still better than the UFCs HW division had been at any point before the very late 00s, which is more or less the entire first half of the UFCs existence.

I think the bigger issue is just a general lack of buzz and star power, which makes the talent level seem worse than it is (again, not saying its great). A WWE wrestler in his 4th MMA fight vs a 45 year old LHW for the title doesnt exactly scream high level but the difference was it was two big stars fighting and there was buzz around it.

To be fair I think the UFC HW division in the very early 00's was pretty strong, Randy, Barnett, Rizzo, Ricco, Semmy, Randleman, Sylvia, Arlovski(albeit he didnt really peak till a bit latter) around, not all overlapping but many of them at the same time. Pride's dominance at HW really started to build up strongly around 02-03 and into the middle of the decade.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

Not a single one of the sudden Tom dickriders have ever articulated HOW Tom actually beats Jones in their minds. He just somehow KOs a man who's never been KO'd, subs a guy who's never been subbed, or decisions a guy who's never lost a decision.

Like I get Tom looks good these days, Jon is older compared to his prime, and anything can happen, but it sure as fuck seems like they're all just hoping for a Hail Mary by those three factors and not because Tom actually is better than Jon at anything.

Like at least the other GOATs lost because they actually ran into an opponent that was known to have competing/better skills to them ahead of time. Werdum was the better BJJ guy, Conor the better boxer, Cejudo the better wrestler, Weidman the better grappler, etc. Tom uh... does what better than Jon? He's not the better kickboxer and he's not the better grappler. He's younger and hits harder and people are hoping Jon's past it enough to matter.

Which uh cool for Tom getting lucky enough to tag team Jones with Father Time I guess.

Its not just about skills though is it? its also about age, height/reach, weight, strength, power, athleticism etc. In the vast majority of Jons fights as a LHW he was the bigger, rangier, stronger, more athletic guy on top of being skilled, and he knew how to maximise all his advantages too. Hes now pushing 40 and fighting at a higher weight class where his physical advantages are less pronounced or (depending on who hes fighting) pretty much completely negated. Tom (like Ngannou) is a big tall HW but also on the high end of athleticism for the division, seems to have enough grappling ability to potentially force prolonged stand up exchanges, and has above average punching power mixed with pretty solid boxing skills.

Jon was never a big hitter even at LHW and at 37 he looks slightly slower and more hittable, add to that someone like Tom because of his size (and athleticism for his size) potentially being able to fuck with Jons usual ability to control distance and its a dangerous fight stylistically, surely? i'm not saying its a foregone conclusion either way but its not hard to see how there is a very real threat of Jon getting caught in that fight (or vs Ngannou or anyone else that has similar attributes).

 

[GOATtalks]

He has looked impressive of late. Still slow. So i'm not sure he can do much better against Gane this time around in a pure stand up fight. But the way he picked apart Pavlovich was pretty impressive. And that hair combing moment between rounds against pav was hilarious.

Wrong. It was def good not even good but great in a period in 2010s best it ever was in UFC at least by far.

2012 UFC HW rankings

Cain
JDS
Reem
DC
Werdum
Barnett
Murr
TRT Bigfoot
Carwin
Hunt
Struve
Roy
Rothwell
Browne
Stipe
Kongo
Mitrione
Gonzaga
Tim Johnson

That is a great division. That 2011-2014 period was best UFC HW ever was by far. Like a Struve wasn't taken serious back then as a contender yet he is better than all but a handful HWs now easily and in 2012 he KOd undefeated prime 30yo Stipe.

Roy was a gatekeeper for top 10 back then and prime Roy would be top 5 today.

Division has been a dumpster for years now but it WAS great once upon a time. No question.

You’re delusional.

Roy lost to Stipe, Volkov and Lewis. He wouldn’t be top10 today.

Struve lost to Volkov, Tybura and Tuivasa. He wouldn’t even be top15 today.

Let’s take Arlovski as measuring stick. In his 2nd UFC run 2014-2024, he beat guys from your “great division” Mir, Browne, Struve, Silva, Rothwell, but lost to all the modern guys like Stipe, Ngannou, Tybura, Tuivasa, Rozenstruick, Aspinall.

Someone like Blaydes also easily dispatched guys like JDS, Overeem and Hunt

 

[ExitLUPin]

You’re delusional.

Roy lost to Stipe, Volkov and Lewis. He wouldn’t be top10 today.

Struve lost to Volkov, Tybura and Tuivasa. He wouldn’t even be top15 today.

Let’s take Arlovski as measuring stick. In his 2nd UFC run 2014-2024, he beat guys from your “great division” Mir, Browne, Struve, Silva, Rothwell, but lost to all the modern guys like Stipe, Ngannou, Tybura, Tuivasa, Rozenstruick, Aspinall.

Someone like Blaydes also easily dispatched guys like JDS, Overeem and Hunt

You're low IQ when it comes to these convos man.

Roy was already washed by the time he fought Volkov. The only fight he won after was Javy Ayala. He couldn't even beat a retired Cro Cop 4 fights after Volkov. He went to a SD with prime Lewis he arguably won and Lewis was top 5 in UFCs garbage era of HW 2 years later and fought for the title.

Struve already had the heart disease problems and needed to by cleared by doctors in 2015 and was a shell. He barely beat an ancient Nog in Nogs last fight in 2015 then fought Tybura, Volkov and Tai years later. Those fights don't matter considering how washed Struve. Washed Struve finished Marcos Rogerio De Lima in 2019 and Marcos is ranked 12th right now so saying he wouldn't be top 15 is more garbage from you. And Struve finished an undefeated prime Stipe too.

Bigfoot was post TRT ban when he fought Andrei he literally never won a fight after the ban. And again beating 2018 Struve or 2019 Rothwell when they were washed doesn't matter. Andrei also lost to the Barnetts and Reems of that period.

Hunt was 45yo when Blaydes fought him and it was hardly easy considering he was dropped and almost KOd losing the 1st round and couldn't finish him. He beat a washed version of JDS who lost to Yorgan De Castro. That win doesn't mean anything either.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

You’re delusional.

Roy lost to Stipe, Volkov and Lewis. He wouldn’t be top10 today.

Struve lost to Volkov, Tybura and Tuivasa. He wouldn’t even be top15 today.

Let’s take Arlovski as measuring stick. In his 2nd UFC run 2014-2024, he beat guys from your “great division” Mir, Browne, Struve, Silva, Rothwell, but lost to all the modern guys like Stipe, Ngannou, Tybura, Tuivasa, Rozenstruick, Aspinall.

Someone like Blaydes also easily dispatched guys like JDS, Overeem and Hunt

Roy was in his 40s when he lost to Volkov and Lewis though. The Lewis fight was competitive too. I think the Big Country of the early 10s would beat everyone ranked below Spivac currently, I wouldnt count him out vs Spivac, Volkov or Curtis shit the bed Baydes either.

No way is Blaydes beating prime JDS or Reem ffs. Probably would have beaten Hunt at any point though barring his shit the bed tendencies coming into play.

 

[Leon Edwards]

Tom is the only elite HW. He has no one to fight.

"Elite" you mean untested

 

[Reach Finesse]

I guess you're a Jon Jones fan, but the UFC heavyweight division will be just fine after Jon Jones.

ANY fighter in ANY division that keeps winning will become a star. Period. The only possible exception to this rule is Demetrious Johnson, who was criminally underrated and criminally underappreciated by UFC fans.

But I guarantee you that Tom Aspinall would surpass Jon Jones if Jones retires/vacates the heavyweight belt tomorrow, and Aspinall keeps winning & defending. The only way the UFC heavyweight picture can be harmed is if DUCK Jones keeps holding the HW title and refusing to fight Aspinall.

Tom has the same problem as DJ...good fighter in a terrible division

I think DJ is ranked too high actually...beat mostly scrubs and lost several times

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

Probably worst UFC HW division since the mid 2000s when UFC was B league to PRIDE. They had nursing home Stipe still ranked before retirement to make it appear better than it was.

Volkov top 3 really says it all. He was 5-3 in Bellator, got rekt in 2 mins by Minakov who probably best Russian HW post Fedor and got worked by Tony Johnson and 30-26d by Cheick Kongo LOL. Prime Kongo was better than Volkov yet Volkov is a top 3 HW in this era. YIKES. Bottom half of that top 15 is just some sad depressing shit. Low level one dimensional fighters. They wouldn't even be top 50 in a good weight class.

Lol, and Rob Whittaker has been champ and top 5 forever, despite the fact he was outstruck and beaten out of a weight below and was dropping fights to people as bad as Court McGee. 8 losses to his name.

Similarly can be said for Sean Strickland, who was getting beat the weight class below by people like Ponz and EDS. He's nothing special at all, just a meat and potatoes fighter who got a belt and remains in the top 5 with 6 career losses.

I mean HW is pretty bad to have their ranked fighters have a combined record of 279-75-1 (2). It's almost comparable to LHW with 294-87-4 (4).

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

"Elite" you mean untested

He's come through more tests than every other HW

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

I think DJ is ranked too high actually...beat mostly scrubs and lost several times

He lost 4 times. 3 were in a weight class above (2 of those to champions, 1 of which was avenged) and his only loss at 125 was widely considered bullshit. And he's got a win over him too. Holding those losses against him with any kind of strong credibility would be ridiculous

 

[Mind Mine]

Jones has 1 HW fight so far

Him leaving is actually good news, we dont need him holding a division only to fight retired dudes, Unless you happy with these gimmick fights.

Maybe DC again, huh?

Come on.

Either Jones fights Tom or he can just retire

Orrr here’s another option? Hows about we keep Jones around a bit and make everyone think he’s ducking Aspinall because Jones is kinda the biggest fucking deal on the roster who fights. That builds Aspinall’s bum ass name because God knows 90% of the audience wouldn’t say it otherwise and then you can compete better in viewership when the other team has Francis? You know kinda like we’re doing now buddy? Have you ever thought this is what the fuck they’re supposed to be doing

 

[IronGolem007]

LOL. Delusional.

Anderson Silva lost multiple times before he became the middleweight GOAT. That's a meaningless factor quoted by small-brained morons.

Tom Aspinall can break the HW title defense record if he keeps winning, and retire the HW GOAT. His destiny is in his hands. Whereas Jon Jones will, again, be at the mercy of Aspinall's legacy if he ducks him.

The mercy of Aspinall's legacy? Dude's already lost and quit.

Tom Aspinall in no way affects Jon Jones' legacy, 99.99% of which was @ LHW and 100% of which is greater than any Tomfoolery.

 

[gosuasus]

Tom is the only elite HW.

We don't know that. Boy hasn't been in the 9th minute of a professional fight yet.

 

[SuperAlly]

Probably worst UFC HW division since the mid 2000s when UFC was B league to PRIDE. They had nursing home Stipe still ranked before retirement to make it appear better than it was.

Volkov top 3 really says it all. He was 5-3 in Bellator, got rekt in 2 mins by Minakov who probably best Russian HW post Fedor and got worked by Tony Johnson and 30-26d by Cheick Kongo LOL. Prime Kongo was better than Volkov yet Volkov is a top 3 HW in this era. YIKES. Bottom half of that top 15 is just some sad depressing shit. Low level one dimensional fighters. They wouldn't even be top 50 in a good weight class.

Same as it did before he jumped in for 2 fights

The world moves on

No one will care

 

[KungFuCow]

The most retarded comments here frequently start with "lmao".

Or end with it.

 

[Hdfi]

Jon has a negative impact on the HW division by holding the belt hostage and never fighting real contenders. Ducked Pavlovich and is now ducking Aspinall.

 

[KungFuCow]

Let’s not forget there was a time where Paul Buentello was number one contender. This is definitely better than that era.

If you want to look at it like that, LHW has been not great for a while too. At one point when you had killers like Wandy, Chuck, Rampage, Shogun, Ricardo Arona, Rashad Evans, Dan Hendo and all the other people of that era, LHW was great. LHW now is significantly lesser than it was at that time. All of these divisions kind of ebb and flow with maybe 170 and 155 being the exception. The lighter classes are too new to talk about at this point.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

If you want to look at it like that, LHW has been not great for a while too. At one point when you had killers like Wandy, Chuck, Rampage, Shogun, Ricardo Arona, Rashad Evans, Dan Hendo and all the other people of that era, LHW was great. LHW now is significantly lesser than it was at that time. All of these divisions kind of ebb and flow with maybe 170 and 155 being the exception. The lighter classes are too new to talk about at this point.

LHW is for sure worse than HW right now imo.

Tbh all divisions from 170 up are pretty meh these days.