List your current goal(Bulking/Cutting) and your supplements!

[Judo-kid]

Love how you ignored my post.
1 - a lot of that stuff is pure bullshit
2 - you're taking a lot of the same thing just with different names
3 - you're putting things into your body that your body already produces enough of naturally
4 - you're taking stuff that is designed to help people with focus and sexual problems
No. Don't bother with Judo-kid anymore, he just believes what he wants to hear. Good luck gaining that 23 lbs in 50 days bro.

Like i said before list what is bullshit,

As for the MACA root its because i am rebounding off Andro(estrogen killer) and it killed my sex drive, Your probably asking what does a 19 year old need with that. Basically i had two bottles of blue rhino prior to taking the andro it raised my test slightly but my estrogen alot and it seemed as if i was starting to get gyno. So i took andro to stop/prevent any gyno (puffy nipples) and worst case full out lacktating breasts! So thats what the Maca is for damage control. Please name anything else you would like me to explain , you say that i'm taking alot of the same thing just with diffrent names? Care to elaberate?


Sincerly
Judo-kid

 

[Judo-kid]

Sorry but I'm completely on-board with Madmick on this one.

HMB for one has pretty much been debunked back in the late 90's actually. It was heavily hyped around 94-95 or so then shown to be relatively useless. You can always find 'reviews' in the BB rags that push just about any supplement.

This happens routinely with supplements. Look at the chromium piccolinate hype and subsequent debunking. Another classic move that happens with a lot of supplements. I believe colustrum was heavily hyped as 'the next big thing' several years ago. We'll see it fade away for the next big thing soon.

The current rage is all the NOXplode products. Give it a year or two. They're pretty much the current replacement of the old Cell-tech supplements that everyone was all over a few years back. The vast majority of supps are fad items pushed by the companies that sponsor the BB mags.

I don't know what half the cr@p you're taking is either. And you know what? If it had real (read not just some Muscletech type of study) documented results, everyone would have heard of it.

Creatine is one of the very few heavily tested supps that repeated scientific studies show a
slight gain from. I've tried it in the past and it didn't do much for me personally. And that is the tried and true 1% gain scenario. What are you looking for from the rest of the stack? A tenth of a percent over the next two years? Is your diet that spot on and your pockets that deep?

As to the 5 years of BB experience, you never answered my initial question. Have you reached that 230 pounds of rip at 6' or less? Heck with 5 years of BB exerience and all these supps you should be a shredded, huge beast right?

Well like i linked above (somewhere) show's my current stats, as for 5 years BB i used to be 160 5 years ago. So i've made considerable gains considering i'm at 8% B/f right now.


As for creatine i've had considerable luck with it and its defintly helped me in the gym if you know naything about creatine works with ATP, So basically a bigger pool which= more lifts = more gains. I find CEE to be more useful to me, Mono makes me bloat and causes stomach problems. Also i agree there are supplements that are crap, as for no-xplode i've tried it before it became such a big name/bsn and it worked fairly well get me in the zone pre-work out. Nice pumps and good focus unfountly very over priced.

 

[Judo-kid]

Heavily reviewed by who?
What's your criteria for a believable 'review'. I mean, how many studies are there on such a mainstream supplement as glutamine? Not that much...

IMO that's a nice recipe for a Hocus-Pocus magical potion you have right there.
Training is mostly about training. Eating comes second. Supplementing comes third.

I take: creatine, whey, glutamine, multivit, and I'm not even sure it makes a difference. How can you know 'x' works if you implement it with 'a','b','c','d'. etc...? How do you know that the totality of the benefits you gain from supps does not stem from 'k'?

As for Glutamine its 50/50 there is a huge debate and all you have to do is use the search on any Bodybuilding forum/here to see there are alot of studys showing both neg/pos results for it. I personally find a faster recovery using it in high doses/smoother skin.

 

[Judo-kid]

Also here, Believe posted earlier*maybe not* Is a journel of my 50 day bulking log along with stats etc

http://forums.bulknutrition.com/?showtopic=23924

 

[KOU In3]

Also here, Believe posted earlier*maybe not* Is a journel of my 50 day bulking log along with stats etc

http://forums.bulknutrition.com/?showtopic=23924

I followed your link. It looks like there are tons of people at that site that think you are as far off as we do here.

You're citing numerous studies both for and against your supplements. This is exactly the point. Science requires repeatability! When studies keep having different results, the conclusion is generally that there is no real correlation.

My advice is to drop the second job that is funding the huge supplement stack, drop the stack, and instead sleep. You'll get more results from the proper recovery than from the chemicals.

Back to your log... you're looking to put on 23 pounds in 50 days?!?! This is roughly a half pound a day, every day. Meaning you will need to take your current caloric intake and up it by about 1700 calories a day. Good luck with that.

More importantly, unless you plan on having that be largely water weight, you're going to be adding a TON of bodyfat. Even at a heavy bulking rate of 1 pound a week, you'd be adding a good bit of fat.

Let's pretend that in that 7 week time frame you can actually add 5 pounds of actual muscle (good luck in a steroid free trained athlete). This means that the other 18 pounds of weight will be FAT. Is there a reason you're trying to double your bodyfat levels in the next 50 days? (Although personally I doubt the 8% level as I've found most people are pretty far off when they guestimate their BF%.)

The whole, huge supp stack combined with such a truncated timeline reeks of yet another 'magic pill' scenario. It takes time to build muscle and add weight. Ironicly, building muscle is a marathon not a sprint. Consistent performance over time yields results. Not crazy stacks and 50 day programs.

 

[David Sullivan]

I followed your link. It looks like there are tons of people at that site that think you are as far off as we do here.

You're citing numerous studies both for and against your supplements. This is exactly the point. Science requires repeatability! When studies keep having different results, the conclusion is generally that there is no real correlation.

My advice is to drop the second job that is funding the huge supplement stack, drop the stack, and instead sleep. You'll get more results from the proper recovery than from the chemicals.

Back to your log... you're looking to put on 23 pounds in 50 days?!?! This is roughly a half pound a day, every day. Meaning you will need to take your current caloric intake and up it by about 1700 calories a day. Good luck with that.

More importantly, unless you plan on having that be largely water weight, you're going to be adding a TON of bodyfat. Even at a heavy bulking rate of 1 pound a week, you'd be adding a good bit of fat.

Let's pretend that in that 7 week time frame you can actually add 5 pounds of actual muscle (good luck in a steroid free trained athlete). This means that the other 18 pounds of weight will be FAT. Is there a reason you're trying to double your bodyfat levels in the next 50 days? (Although personally I doubt the 8% level as I've found most people are pretty far off when they guestimate their BF%.)

The whole, huge supp stack combined with such a truncated timeline reeks of yet another 'magic pill' scenario. It takes time to build muscle and add weight. Ironicly, building muscle is a marathon not a sprint. Consistent performance over time yields results. Not crazy stacks and 50 day programs.

True but as i said before i am all up for debates on anything including what i am taking,(supplement wise) i linked good with the bad on purpose. Show you i know the studys that point both ways and when somethings 50/50 i find best way to find out if its BS on not is to use it and come to my own conculision. As for the true secret in my bulking this faze( its x-factor) look it up.(seriously because its hard to link everything.


Anyways til next time
Judo-kid

 

[Tap112]

Like i said before list what is bullshit,

Like I said before, you ignored my original post.

Colostrum is bullshit, HMB is bullshit, Relax-All is bullshit, Xtend is bullshit, Im stopping there just because I havent had the time to look into the other supplements listed.

Please name anything else you would like me to explain , you say that i'm taking alot of the same thing just with diffrent names? Care to elaberate?

A ton of the stuff you're taking gives you a full dose of glutamine for example. Just look at the labels and you will see similar ingredients.

 

[Fedorable]

whey 20 g's once every other day (work-out days).
fish oil for joints.

I've gained 20 lbs this year, but I still look almost the same.

 

[Fedorable]

Like I said before, you ignored my original post.

Colostrum is bullshit, HMB is bullshit, Relax-All is bullshit, Xtend is bullshit, Im stopping there just because I havent had the time to look into the other supplements listed.
A ton of the stuff you're taking gives you a full dose of glutamine for example. Just look at the labels and you will see similar ingredients.

is colostrum the yellow milk that comes out of the breasts right after (a month?) a child is born?

 

[Tap112]

is colostrum the yellow milk that comes out of the breasts right after (a month?) a child is born?

I guess so, I dont know the color. Its the first milk the mothers breasts produce in the first few days of breastfeeding. Its different from mature milk.

here's all the info:
http://www.lalecheleague.org/FAQ/colostrum.html

 

[Judo-kid]

Like I said before, you ignored my original post.

Colostrum is bullshit, HMB is bullshit, Relax-All is bullshit, Xtend is bullshit, Im stopping there just because I havent had the time to look into the other supplements listed.
A ton of the stuff you're taking gives you a full dose of glutamine for example. Just look at the labels and you will see similar ingredients.

I see yet you havent sited why its bullshit, Btw why is Relax-all bullshit> why is xtend bullshit there are alot of studys showing alot of success with BCAA. We already discussed Colostrum and HMB i think you are starting to show some ignorence towards supplements.


Please like i posted above explain to me why its bullshit and site your proof studys etc.

 

[Tap112]

I see yet you havent sited why its bullshit, Btw why is Relax-all bullshit> why is xtend bullshit there are alot of studys showing alot of success with BCAA. We already discussed Colostrum and HMB i think you are starting to show some ignorence towards supplements.


Please like i posted above explain to me why its bullshit and site your proof studys etc.

Im not being ignorant, but I do apologize if I was offensive in tone. I'm very busy today, so Ill post again later when I have time to go into detail.

 

[Tap112]

Im not being ignorant...Ill post again later when I have time to go into detail.

Actually, I looked back at my first post and I already explained why they were bullshit:

Relax-ALL = ...if you're stressed out punch a pillow or listen to music.

Xtend = waste of money. bottom line. its just a BCAA product with glutamine. buy BCAA's and ctrulline malate in bulk and save your money.

magnolol and honokiol are in the relax-all. they are extracted from magnolia officinalis - which is banned in some countries for causing adverse health issues. canada had magnolia bark on its health alert list a few years ago. Honestly, its probably not that bad, but with all the other pills you're taking you should just drop this one and learn how to sleep, learn how to deal with being sore. I have had tremendous trouble sleeping throughout my entire life, many times I would not get a good nights sleep for days at a time. I have tried tons of sleeping/relaxation pills and I was not satisfied with any of them. This is just another pill. Ive found that natural methods are the best.

Z-MAT, probably just as well of taking zinc and vitamin b6.

5-HTP is going to make you drowsy and have a loss of apetite - something you def. dont want if you are trying to bulk up.

Policosanol..are you trying to lower your cholesterol? because thats what this is for.

Green Phyto Foods. why dont you just eat vegetables?

Some of the stuff, I dont know what you are taking it for. Like the Aniracetam powder, if you're taking that to concentrate, then its a waste of money. If you're taking it to chill and make you drowsy, then it works.

You're taking some NO supplements, for that I will direct you to this thread which has enlightened me: http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?t=292084. In any event, the only effect the NO might have would be simply cosmetic.

Taking multiple supplements to make you focus. If you have severely extreme ADD then I guess its worth it. Taking multiple supplements to wake you up. Why dont you just stop taking the things that make you drowsy?

Im tired now so Im stopping with this thread.

Really man, I only pointed out the stuff that I can fully explain. I can go through most of that list and say which ones might work and which ones are bull, but you're asking for scientific analysis for each one and I dont have a PhD.

And even if everything you're taking was well worth it, all that stuff added up is a whole lot of dough to be shelling out. I aint no senator's son. maybe you are.

 

[marine]

Goal:Cut and retain muscle

supplements:
Egopharm Amp-to give me energy, and appitate suppression
Sesathin-to burn the fat and block it
Green tea extract-to aid the sesathin in fatloss and energy, and other health benifets
Whey protein-to aid in keeping my muscle while i cut, maybe even help me get more mass

 

[Judo-kid]

Actually, I looked back at my first post and I already explained why they were bullshit:
magnolol and honokiol are in the relax-all. they are extracted from magnolia officinalis - which is banned in some countries for causing adverse health issues. canada had magnolia bark on its health alert list a few years ago. Honestly, its probably not that bad, but with all the other pills you're taking you should just drop this one and learn how to sleep, learn how to deal with being sore. I have had tremendous trouble sleeping throughout my entire life, many times I would not get a good nights sleep for days at a time. I have tried tons of sleeping/relaxation pills and I was not satisfied with any of them. This is just another pill. Ive found that natural methods are the best.

Z-MAT, probably just as well of taking zinc and vitamin b6.

5-HTP is going to make you drowsy and have a loss of apetite - something you def. dont want if you are trying to bulk up.

Policosanol..are you trying to lower your cholesterol? because thats what this is for.

Green Phyto Foods. why dont you just eat vegetables?

Some of the stuff, I dont know what you are taking it for. Like the Aniracetam powder, if you're taking that to concentrate, then its a waste of money. If you're taking it to chill and make you drowsy, then it works.

You're taking some NO supplements, for that I will direct you to this thread which has enlightened me: http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?t=292084. In any event, the only effect the NO might have would be simply cosmetic.

Taking multiple supplements to make you focus. If you have severely extreme ADD then I guess its worth it. Taking multiple supplements to wake you up. Why dont you just stop taking the things that make you drowsy?

Im tired now so Im stopping with this thread.

Really man, I only pointed out the stuff that I can fully explain. I can go through most of that list and say which ones might work and which ones are bull, but you're asking for scientific analysis for each one and I dont have a PhD.

And even if everything you're taking was well worth it, all that stuff added up is a whole lot of dough to be shelling out. I aint no senator's son. maybe you are.

I explained a few of the supplements you sited again, i understand where your coming from at least in the cost department. As far as the supplements i am using, I have found to work fairly well, so theres no doubt that somethings working and wether or not all of what i'm taking is neccary thats debateable . But hey if you got alittle extra cash and want to try improve yourself why not.


BTW < not a senators son........


anyways thanks for the respones, I'd like to say keep watching my log should give you a idea of how things are going with the stack, i am writing it as honest as possible.


thanks
Judo-kid

 

[KOU In3]

I have found to work fairly well, so theres no doubt that somethings working and wether or not all of what i'm taking is neccary thats debateable .

The problem is that you have no control group. In a one man study, you have nothing to measure your gains against. I for one contend you could make the same gains without any of the stack.

If I remember correctly, you're 19 right? Your body is going to respond and adapt to pretty much any training at that age. Your typical hormone levels are so high naturally in a 19 year old male that you'll make gains from almost any regime.

How do you know that the lifting and eating are what's working and that the supplements are actually slowing down your progress for instance (I'll admit to playing devil's advocate a bit on that last statement though)?

BTW, what is your monthly supplement bill?

 

[bacon]

Maintaining 175 and improving my power to weight ratio.
I take a multivitamin.......that is all.

 

[Tap112]

Goal:Cut and retain muscle

supplements:
Egopharm Amp-to give me energy, and appitate suppression
Sesathin-to burn the fat and block it
Green tea extract-to aid the sesathin in fatloss and energy, and other health benifets
Whey protein-to aid in keeping my muscle while i cut, maybe even help me get more mass

Dont take the egopharm more than a few days per week or you could build up a tolerance to it. The only thing I would worry about with the sesathin is that I've heard it can kill your sex drive. I think sesathin gets too much hype and you'd be just as well off with fish oil - but I havent taken it so Im not one to judge.

I explained a few of the supplements you sited again, i understand where your coming from at least in the cost department. As far as the supplements i am using, I have found to work fairly well, so theres no doubt that somethings working and wether or not all of what i'm taking is neccary thats debateable . But hey if you got alittle extra cash and want to try improve yourself why not.

Alright. Im not going to try to 'convince' you anymore. Keep in mind that you are only 19 and your hormones are already raging. Adding all this stuff into your body might not be beneficial.

BTW < not a senators son........

I couldn't help the CCR reference.

anyways thanks for the respones, I'd like to say keep watching my log should give you a idea of how things are going with the stack, i am writing it as honest as possible.

Honesty is always appreciated.

 

[Madmick]

Does this really need to go on?

Judo-Kid, you could spend 5% of the money and retain 98% of the usefulness of your stack.

Protein, carbs, Omega-3's, creatine, mulivitamin. Simplify, dude.

 

[Fyodor Biznitch]

Ya'll check me out and tell me if anything is unnecessary.

I'm currently bulking. My main source of calories are whole food, potatoes, bagels, lean beef (I dont' eat much chicken), eggs, cheese, yogurt, etc...

My supplements are:

GNC Brand Creatine Monohydrate Powder Unflavored
Muscle Milk (I have Cookies and Creme and Strawberry milkshake sitting on my freezer now)
Cytogainer (Chocolate Mint currently)
GNC Multi for Men over 40 (heh i'm only 20 but I bought this cause the packs are convient to carry plus I wanted to try some DHEA and Saw Palmetto since my dad has prostate problems and I give him the 2 pills at work in the morning when I take mine so we both don't forget )

Thats it. I'm thinking pretty hard about adding Superdrol but being only 20 everyone says that you should wait till you are at least 21. All the talk of delayed gyno from BB.com forums has me a bit gun shy with it. Anything else I should be adding?