Lifting weights really helps punching power?

[apizur**]

Thru plyometrics??

 

[Q mystic]

This has been on my mind bothering me for a while now. I have read a lot on f13 that lifting heavy can increase the force of your punch, but isn't force equal to mass times acceleration? Yes, lifting heavy may make you a little faster but wouldn't there be better ways of increasing speed? Like punching a lot? Or explosive/ ballistic training? Please help clear up my confusion. Am I missing an important factor?

you can hit harder by just hitting a bag and packing on another 10, 15, 20lbs from weightlifting. But, if you want more than just to hit hard you have to strike a decent balance for your goals.

My buddy who is a decent boxing coach does something like this, iirc. In your off-season(typically summer) of boxing comp you will train to develop your strength and stamina to the best you can. That's about 2-3 months and that's going to result in your base, say 100. During the same 3 months your boxing will be strictly devoted to increasing your technical ability. Lots of volume in learning and reps, but low intensity.

Then, after this you will train differently and enter comps that aren't really that important, just to start to put your new skills to work and transition your new-found strength and stamina into it's proper path.lol Developing your base to more practical, you should still maintain maybe 95% of your strength base because you are still going to be doing strength-like exercise, but less. You are transitioning that base strength into boxing tech, speed, timing..etc. gradually growing to more explosive stuff.

You get the idea. The result should end up with you still having near 80-90% of your base strength when you hi-comp it in the hopes of having the hardest punch you could have, along with near top aerobic base as well, in case it takes more than one.lol.

Next summer, repeat.

 

[apizur**]

^No.

And:

In your off-season(typically summer) of boxing comp

Does not exist.

You're not wrong on your opening thesis, but you're right in the same way a doctor is right by saying "removing the leg will stop knee pain". The rest is inexperience speaking.

 

[bowlie]

^No.

And:



Does not exist.

You're not wrong on your opening thesis, but you're right in the same way a doctor is right by saying "removing the leg will stop knee pain". The rest is inexperience speaking.

Why? Sounds good to me. Start with lest sport specific stuff, lifting weights and long runs, transition to the most sport specific stuff before a fight, i.e. intervals on a heavy bag and sparring.

 

[apizur**]

The problem with F13 is most people look at every sport like it's weight lifting. Showing up conditioned doesn't mean you win fights. The technically superior and experienced fighters win fights. Lifting isn't necessary to gains the things he mentions. I didn't lift through 75% of my boxing endeavors and I somehow developed power. Sherdog scientists are still researching me.

On top of the fact that Q mystic isn't putting up his own experience, he's combining his guess with his interpretation of a memory of what a boxing coach told him. Like I said, is he totally wrong? No. Is there a much better way? Yes.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

- Yes lifting weights helps
But technique is important, see the gif below

 

[SummerStriker]

There is more to punching power than weight training, but there is more to self defense than punching power.

When I first got interested in BJJ everyone could shove me around. I had never lifted weights.

Now, my one rep max on bench press is up to 240 and I do sets of 5 on deadlift at 225 which is good for me because of my back injuries as a medic. I'm not even strong, especially not for my size, and not when compared to real athletes. That said, very few people even in competitive gyms can push me around now. That gives me much more freedom to do the things I want in MMA sparring - like throwing harder strikes and standing my ground instead of constantly retreating.

I don't know if weight training is important for punching power, especially when you can lower your body fat and fight people your own size, but for self defense and free sparring without weight classes, I don't think there is a replacement for it.

 

[Eric Brown]

The problem with F13 is most people look at every sport like it's weight lifting. Showing up conditioned doesn't mean you win fights. The technically superior and experienced fighters win fights. Lifting isn't necessary to gains the things he mentions. I didn't lift through 75% of my boxing endeavors and I somehow developed power. Sherdog scientists are still researching me.

Has someone actually stated that if you show up conditioned you automatically win? I realize a lot of stupid shit gets said here every day, but I missed this one.

And of course you can develop power without lifting, largely through increases in technical proficiency. This has never (to my knowledge) been doubted. So I really do not see what you are saying here.

The question posed was "does lifting weights increase punching power?" And, when done as part of a proper training program, the answer is quite simple: yes.

Of course, it is not the only way, but that is not the question either now, is it?

 

[miaou]

In no particular order:

A stronger muscle is a faster muscle.

No.

who are you?

at any rate tough guy. if you read all my threads (like you seem to do), you would know that I always show proof - High speed preformance a new approach to assessment and prediction

thats the study I referred to on earlier today....

This doesn't seem to support what you were saying earlier.

Yes but it slows down your boxing.

Not necessarily. Depends on how you do it.

He would, if he had the technique to do so.

No.

Lifting heavy and slow eventually will slow you down given enough time.

Strawman. Lifting weights isn't necessarily limited to "lifting heavy and slow".

What is fast for a powerlifter is still way too slow for a boxer.

Not necessarily: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8444715

The problem with F13 is most people look at every sport like it's weight lifting. Showing up conditioned doesn't mean you win fights. The technically superior and experienced fighters win fights. Lifting isn't necessary to gains the things he mentions. I didn't lift through 75% of my boxing endeavors and I somehow developed power. Sherdog scientists are still researching me.

Strawman and lol.

Honestly, I think just establishing a solid strength base is enough with boxing. I really view strength as low on the totem pole when talking about boxing.

Yes.

 

[Eric Brown]

In no particular order:

Should have been a bit more particular.

Freakin' slacker.

 

[miaou]

Should have been a bit more particular.

Freakin' slacker.

Lol. I was planning on staying out of this thread, but it became way too much of a clusterfuck to not at least make one comment, however non-particular. :icon_chee

 

[apizur**]

wut mean strawman?

EDIT:
This?
http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/what-is-a-straw-man-argument.aspx

 

[apizur**]

Oops, extra post.

 

[Q mystic]

The problem with F13 is most people look at every sport like it's weight lifting. Showing up conditioned doesn't mean you win fights. The technically superior and experienced fighters win fights. Lifting isn't necessary to gains the things he mentions. I didn't lift through 75% of my boxing endeavors and I somehow developed power. Sherdog scientists are still researching me.

On top of the fact that Q mystic isn't putting up his own experience, he's combining his guess with his interpretation of a memory of what a boxing coach told him. Like I said, is he totally wrong? No. Is there a much better way? Yes.

You are correct that this is a ruff idea that I got from him but we've talked a lot. Could you fill me in on what parts I got wrong? Just for my own correction.

Regarding off-season, that was just a vague example that I used from judo just to get the cycle point across. Also, I don't think he's a pro-weights coach for power all that much actually; and, in fact, just sees the weights for boxing, and judo, as just more for structural balance and injury prevention. However, he did mention that each new cycle should bring about strength and other performance increases.

Of course showing up conditioned doesn't mean winning fights. That's kinda what I meant by, 'strike a decent balance'.



p.s. not entirely on topic but interesting is my cuz, who has a recent degree in sports something from a cool university mentioned that off-season base conditioning not only helps for the obvious, but that it is also considered a large factor in psychological recovery for athletes. OT kinda but just thought I'd mention it as it seemed interesting and that I've never actually heard or read that before.

 

[apizur**]

You are correct that this is a ruff idea that I got from him but we've talked a lot. Could you fill me in on what parts I got wrong? Just for my own correction.

Regarding off-season, that was just a vague example that I used from judo just to get the cycle point across. Also, I don't think he's a pro-weights coach for power all that much actually; and, in fact, just sees the weights for boxing, and judo, as just more for structural balance and injury prevention. However, he did mention that each new cycle should bring about strength and other performance increases.

Of course showing up conditioned doesn't mean winning fights. That's kinda what I meant by, 'strike a decent balance'.



p.s. not entirely on topic but interesting is my cuz, who has a recent degree in sports something from a cool university mentioned that off-season base conditioning not only helps for the obvious, but that it is also considered a large factor in psychological recovery for athletes. OT kinda but just thought I'd mention it as it seemed interesting and that I've never actually heard or read that before.

From the bottom up, yes, I've heard of weeks (one or more) off for recovery, particularly in endurance athletes. So I can see a month or more... but I personally wouldn't think strength training would be "time off"... but I'm sure he's way more immersed in the subject than myself.

You should not abstain from sparring or any sport specific work, no matter the intensity. If you can get sparring, and you're not pushing injury, you should get it. The fastest way to play good soccer is to play soccer. Everything else is supplementary in contrast to sport specific work. So I would not put any s.s.w. on the back burner with the exception of rest weeks and injury time. Also, in my experience of the sport, you will lose a formidable amount of strength in a matter of a month or two if you don't stay lifting. So I would not expect to see someone lift, and 6 months later recognize the gains they made. They would need to stay lifting. The periodization scheme lends itself more to intensity if you'd like to oversimplify it. I've seen transitions from stength training to plyometrics... but for blocks measured in mere weeks.

 

[Q mystic]

From the bottom up, yes, I've heard of weeks (one or more) off for recovery, particularly in endurance athletes. So I can see a month or more... but I personally wouldn't think strength training would be "time off"... but I'm sure he's way more immersed in the subject than myself.

You should not abstain from sparring or any sport specific work, no matter the intensity. If you can get sparring, and you're not pushing injury, you should get it. The fastest way to play good soccer is to play soccer. Everything else is supplementary in contrast to sport specific work. So I would not put any s.s.w. on the back burner with the exception of rest weeks and injury time. Also, in my experience of the sport, you will lose a formidable amount of strength in a matter of a month or two if you don't stay lifting. So I would not expect to see someone lift, and 6 months later recognize the gains they made. They would need to stay lifting. The periodization scheme lends itself more to intensity if you'd like to oversimplify it. I've seen transitions from stength training to plyometrics... but for blocks measured in mere weeks.

Can I ask you if you were an elite for a short period of time, a while ago? Just asking and nothihg bad, api. Seems to me you know what you're talking about but on a more 'experienced' pov level. I think, that anyone else who commits will find the details out for themselves and do fine. That said, I'm not against you talking. Good stuff and always well worth consideration, imo.:icon_lol:

^ that doesn't mean anything bad, I promise. Regarding strength tho, I think they are capable of maintaining pretty good. There was a 'project' done in Canada on an Olympic boxer and you really do make a lot of sense in other ways tho, for the result. I don't know for sure but I am convinced. Other tops talk shiot about overwhelming and whatnot but who is to say?

Personally, I would take your opinion just fine. Not that I think it is the best way, either, but that it is close enuff for anything practical. If you are really good 1/2 way, you should typically be taken care of. I'm older too, tho.lol Old school myself.lol Do wish I had done more weights tho. For longevity. My judo pipes smoked boxers anyway tho.:icon_lol:

fastest way to play good soccor?lol. Of course.

p.s. I'm wasted. Yes, you should refrain from sport specific opportunity. That goes to each individual tho. Don't get caught in concept.

Here's a reasonably concise pov from some pretty elite judoka, for judo in Canada and I think there is a lot of transference to boxing.

http://www.judocanada.org/long-term-athlete-development-model/

Long Term Development Model. And we weren't that, api.:icon_lol::icon_lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--wAw7gBQxU

 

[apizur**]

You seem to be a well mannered person, but here's my thing:
For you to write a hefty, confident write up... and then say "Its a ruff idea" and "I think anyone who commits will find out... for themselves [anyway]" makes me wonder why you wrote it so confidently in the first place. It's not a periodization scheme I would use, and have yet to see anyone implement (in boxing, I do not fight MMA). You could be half the world away for all I know. Here in New York, I have yet to see it.

 

[Q mystic]

You seem to be a well mannered person, but here's my thing:
For you to write a hefty, confident write up... and then say "Its a ruff idea" and "I think anyone who commits will find out... for themselves [anyway]" makes me wonder why you wrote it so confidently in the first place. It's not a periodization scheme I would use, and have yet to see anyone implement (in boxing, I do not fight MMA). You could be half the world away for all I know. Here in New York, I have yet to see it.

No confidence, api. Just chat. I did say, 'speaking from another'. I do believe that there is a good scientific way, but do believe your way(from what I gather) is the jist of it...until you hit it reasonably...with time, money or mass confidence from other elite coaches.

Confident write-ups are fine, imo. They get smoked if off too terribly.

My buddy is a pretty good ammy boxing coach and we use to chat pretty ruff. I just said what I got from him. Sounded a lot like judo comp.

I'm playing tunes...too loud maybe.lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWubhw8SoBE

p.s. I forgot. Good sparring is fine. No extra brain damage necessary. Same goes for judo throws/chokes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_rhnHpRSXQ

 

[selfcritical]

^No.

And:



Does not exist.

You're not wrong on your opening thesis, but you're right in the same way a doctor is right by saying "removing the leg will stop knee pain". The rest is inexperience speaking.

If you're an amateur training for golden gloves or an olympic quad, it does.

 

[apizur**]

Q, I'm completely distracted by your paradoxical method of "confrontation" and find it way more interesting than the topic at hand lmao