Media Lift Logic: Why Muay Thai Fails In MMA.

Harlekin said:
He is talking mostly about TRADITIONAL Muay Thai.
Modern Muay Thai Champs incorporate a lot of boxing footwork, defense and more.
Boxing evolved a lot more over time. Maybe because of money, PED, tapes, internet, more world wide of a sport.
While Thailand was still not that developed as a country in the 90s.
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What I spoke of is traditional Muay Thai. Even in the 90s Thai fighters switched to boxing and still won world titles... The thais are some bad motherfuckers and muay Thai isn't just one style. Dieselnoi who is one of the most legendary Thai fighters had a Muay khao style, lerdsilla and Saanchai have a Muay femur style. My point stands correcte because the guys knowledge on muay Thai is elementary level at best
 
The problem with MT is that the vast majority of them don't have the right footwork to transition over to MMA. There's no getting out of range, just stand and bang. ONE's friday night cards are mostly just all this. Combine that with small gloves that slip past the guard easier and these MT guys get wrecked easily.

I feel like I see a lot of russian MT guys now who do actually use footwork and do pretty well.
 
Maybe I am a MT snob but most of those guys aren't traditional MT. They all adapt parts of MT to their game. It is MMA. It is rare to see people really know how to clinch or catch/sweep. Even someone like Khalil is adapted MT. He is more of a blitz fighter.
 
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europe1 said:
There a lot of nitwits in MMA fandom.
A few highwits.
But a genuine midwiter? Now that's rare. That's what this guy is.
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I would point out three things

1: I think he ignores the most decisive factor in the fight, footwork. Look at the distance between Garry and Prates. Its almost the same throughout the fight. Garry is constantly manuvering his feet to keep them at this distance. Retreating when Carlos advances and persuing when Carlos backs off.

Why? Because this is the ideal range for Garry to fight. Firstly, its to long a distance for Carlos to uncork his left straight (his killer punch). Neutralizing Carlos's most potent offense.

Meanwhile, Garry can pick away at him with singular kicks or punches. Notice this. Seldom does Garry hurt him. But he constantly chips away at Carlos racking up points. He only uses singular techniques because he wants to reastablish distance as soon as possible. Carlos can strike at range too but doesn't have volume or venom. He often falls short or walks into stuff. All because Garry's footwork controls the distance.

2: The close-quarters fighting.

Carlos vs Garry is a bad example of this. Traditionally, in MMA, what Muay Thai specialists struggle against is the jab. Think Fiziev vs Justin 1, Masvidal vs Cowboy, Barboza in several fights, Gilbert Burns vs Usman and Chimaev, even Aldo was having fits as Homnick just kept pumping one out (heck even Jon Jones repeatedly getting bopped by Gus). The jab is just one of those punches that doesn't exist in Muay Thai the same way it does Boxing. Its straight and snappy and doesn't come with any build up. Oftentimes Thais just aren't built to defend against it. It takes them by surprise. The high-guard is to dedicated a defence to deal with such a snappy weapon.

But this isn't what felled Carlos versus Garry. Ian never bopped him with a jab that Carlos couldn't see comming. Instead Garry racked up points throwing big singular punches or kicks from range. Because, again, footwork gave him the victory, not close-quarters fighting.

3: Think his comments on Carlos's TDD is just off. Its not Carlos's strenght or fast-twitch that enabled him to remain upright. Plenty of fighters are athletic and fail in situation like that. Carlos repeatedly going for Garry's hamstring just shows its a trained technique, a go-to manuver. The immediacy with which he repeatedly persues this all but proves it. The same way Jose Aldo would always feed his opponent the low-single because that's what he's an expert at defending against.
 
Didn't watch the video. I actually got into Muay Thai because the striking was clearly the most consistently effective in MMA.

Obviously just trying to use Muay Thai in an Mixed Martial Arts fight is going to fail. The stance is too upright and vulnerable to TDs. But the leg kicks, teeps, knees, and elbows are excellent tools.
 
taugrim said:
Didn't watch the video. I actually got into Muay Thai because the striking was clearly the most consistently effective in MMA.

Obviously just trying to use Muay Thai in an Mixed Martial Arts fight is going to fail. The stance is too upright and vulnerable to TDs. But the leg kicks, teeps, knees, and elbows are excellent tools.
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Exactly. That's why many UFC fighters still go over to train in Thailand pretty regularly. When it comes to transferring heavy power from kicks, elbows and knees, MT is the best at that. The traditional MT stance however, is too tall and susceptible to takedowns, and only works if you're cool with being put on your back like Charles.
 
i'm not even watching the video. his clickbait title of his video is already enough for me to look at him like an idiot. brather, we knew all this shit 20 yrs ago. just because you were born in 2008 or whatever doesn't mean the world was too.
 
Pancake Sprawl said:
i'm not even watching the video. his clickbait title of his video is already enough for me to look at him like an idiot. brather, we knew all this shit 20 yrs ago. just because you were born in 2008 or whatever doesn't mean the world was too.
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2007*
 
I'd like to see someone use the Thai plum effectively again in UFC

Who was the last guy to do it well?
 
BowserJr said:
I'd like to see someone use the Thai plum effectively again in UFC

Who was the last guy to do it well?
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Mighty Mouse. It looked different vs their first fight. Their first fight showcased MM's wrestling. The second fight was MM drowning Dodson in the clinch. He even did leaping Ong Bak moves. The AMC team definitely works on the clinch game. They at least know the basics. Josh Barnett is part of that team too.

 
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Pierce 34 said:
I used moo aaah thai against my mom once and i still got my ass beat.

so yeah it doesnt work
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but your mom having a belt or a hanger makes the results bullshit. I say without any weapons and with your marial arts you win a sub 2 min TKO over your mom
 
xhaydenx said:
The problem with MT is that the vast majority of them don't have the right footwork to transition over to MMA. There's no getting out of range, just stand and bang. ONE's friday night cards are mostly just all this. Combine that with small gloves that slip past the guard easier and these MT guys get wrecked easily.

I feel like I see a lot of russian MT guys now who do actually use footwork and do pretty well.
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It's ONE's ruleset and the way they want their refs to push the action. They don't allow fighters to move backwards or evade and the refs encourage the brawl. The fights are also shorter and scoring criteria is different. It's not traditional MT. They discourage sweeps and clinching. Scoring in ONE is based on damage instead of effective striking. The fighters brawl too because they want the Chatri bonus. The ONE fights are not technical at all. It's fast paced MT that is easier to digest for regular audiences.

The glove size isn't that much of a big deal. They don't use a shell for defense. Thais fight in 6oz gloves.
 
NoSmilez said:
It's ONE's ruleset and the way they want their refs to push the action. They don't allow fighters to move backwards or evade and the refs encourage the brawl. The fights are also shorter and scoring criteria is different. It's not traditional MT. They discourage sweeps and clinching. Scoring in ONE is based on damage instead of effective striking. The fighters brawl too because they want the Chatri bonus. The ONE fights are not technical at all. It's fast paced MT that is easier to digest for regular audiences.

The glove size isn't that much of a big deal. They don't use a shell for defense. Thais fight in 6oz gloves.
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They're still allowed to move backwards and evade lol. There's some foreigners who fight like that and don't get punished for it. And they do well.

Are normal MT fights not 3x3 min rounds like in ONE?

They don't discourage sweeps from what I've seen, but you're right about the clinch. You hardly ever see any locked on clinch work in ONE lol. Ref's break that up almost instantly. They give them like 1-2 knees and then break.

The brawling for the bonus thing lol. I wonder if it's more than what they get paid to actually fight. It does seem like that because Chatri just hands them out for any and all finishes.

Basing scoring on damage is bullshit. I remember seeing a girl fight where one girl got absolutely whooped for 3 rounds, but because she landed one jab that knocked the other girl off balance for a "knockdown" and never actually got knocked down herself, she won the fight because her round automatically became a 10-8, and because they don't do draws it goes to whoever was closest to finishing the fight, which technically was her. Ridiculous.
 
xhaydenx said:
They're still allowed to move backwards and evade lol. There's some foreigners who fight like that and don't get punished for it. And they do well.

Are normal MT fights not 3x3 min rounds like in ONE?

They don't discourage sweeps from what I've seen, but you're right about the clinch. You hardly ever see any locked on clinch work in ONE lol. Ref's break that up almost instantly. They give them like 1-2 knees and then break.

The brawling for the bonus thing lol. I wonder if it's more than what they get paid to actually fight. It does seem like that because Chatri just hands them out for any and all finishes.

Basing scoring on damage is bullshit. I remember seeing a girl fight where one girl got absolutely whooped for 3 rounds, but because she landed one jab that knocked the other girl off balance for a "knockdown" and never actually got knocked down herself, she won the fight because her round automatically became a 10-8, and because they don't do draws it goes to whoever was closest to finishing the fight, which technically was her. Ridiculous.
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Muay Thai is 5 rounds, 3 min per round. ONE absolutely discourages sweeps and clinching. It's not outright banned or anything, but refs don't allow much clinching and judges don't score sweeps the same way they would be in stadium fights/traditional muay.
 
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