Leglocks - why so neglected?

where i train, achilles locks are legal, but kneebars and heelhooks are reserved for the purps and up iirc.
 
Gsoares2 said:
You cant blame people for giving you so much shit. You are awfuly cocky. Your talking as if your the next bjj mesiah and you have no crudentials... except i guess a purple belt gave you a leg and you latched on like a starving child and he tapped because he knew he had some rookie hanging on one of the two apendages he uses to Stand, Walk, and basicly live a normal life.


If you have "developed" such a good ground game.. quit working on your keyboard skills and we will see you winning the next Adcc........ see you there.
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Hey, it wasn't me who came up with the idea of saying maybe I'm the next BJ Penn. That just seems the more logical of the three. As for my "credentials" names Jason Pair, you can email me when I'm world champ. As for me being "some rookie who latched onto a leg" if you want to talk shit I'd be more than happy to drive down to Atlanta, you can drive up to Atlanta. Somewhere in between, and I would be MORE than happy to train.

Like I said I do not do heelhooks or twisting footlocks in training, and the only possible way you are going to hurt a guys leg with an achilies ankle lock is IF you do it correctly. Do you even know what an achilies ankle lock is? I've let rookies hold me in trying to work for an achilies for a while just to work on the position before countering. Like I'm sure I said, do not talk about technique you do not understand..

And from your attitude the only way you're going to see me there is when you are in the stands watching me.
 
Dirty feet make me think twice about leg locks...I dunno, nobody at my place sees them any different than any other attack.
 
Some of you are seriously offended by the idea of a relative beginner not getting tooled on.

Look, I never started this thread bragging about any skills I have. So the replies saying stuff like "You noob who get heel hooks, you'd get destroyed in a real competition." I never said I was some prodigy because I tapped a couple of purple belts. I had a background in wrestling, which keeps me from getting swept easily, and I happened to have a pretty quick toehold.

As far as how long I've been doing it goes, in the 6 months I've done MMA, I live and breathe it. I haven't missed more than a day of training in almost a year. I'm always out running, lifting, and on the mat, I spend as much time as possible sparring and rolling. I'm constantly taking the opportunity to roll with instructors and guys who absolutely tool on me. If I didn't get my ass kicked at the gym, I consider the night to be unsuccessful. So I improve at a fast rate. My 6 months have been more intense than some of your 1 years. Don't underestimate someone because of their size or experience level.

My point being, the thread was started because I noticed that PROFICIENT (read: not high level belts) level grapplers seems to neglect leglocks. My question seems to have been answered, that they prefer to work more on the positioning game first, before going for leglocks.

I like to go for moves like leglocks because they pace the match faster overall. While I am looking to win, I also look to make my fights entertaining (I'm talking about tournaments too, I'm not talking about the gym). If you're a boring fighter, and you're really good, the only respect you have is your status in rankings. If you're an exciting fighter, you kind of have that leeway, where even if you lose, people still respect you, and are willing to watch you fight again. Plus, it is supposed to be fun. Laying on top of a guy to wait out the end of a round or match is not really fun.

Thanks for your input, and seriously, stop getting so offended if someone mentions that they don't completely suck. Do you really care how good they say they are?
 
FiendishOne said:
Actually yes, that's what I was thinking. It's the reason I went to other schools.. Also I never talk about tapping guys I train with. I only talk shit about tapping guys from other schools.
QUOTE]


gotcha.
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FiendishOne said:
Hey, it wasn't me who came up with the idea of saying maybe I'm the next BJ Penn. That just seems the more logical of the three. As for my "credentials" names Jason Pair, you can email me when I'm world champ. As for me being "some rookie who latched onto a leg" if you want to talk shit I'd be more than happy to drive down to Atlanta, you can drive up to Atlanta. Somewhere in between, and I would be MORE than happy to train.

Like I said I do not do heelhooks or twisting footlocks in training, and the only possible way you are going to hurt a guys leg with an achilies ankle lock is IF you do it correctly. Do you even know what an achilies ankle lock is? I've let rookies hold me in trying to work for an achilies for a while just to work on the position before countering. Like I'm sure I said, do not talk about technique you do not understand..

And from your attitude the only way you're going to see me there is when you are in the stands watching me.
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more cockyness...... your so full of shit.
 
Gsoares2 said:
more cockyness...... your so full of shit.
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How would that be cockiness? Even so it does not say if I am full of shit or not. If any one is you're the one full of shit. You talk shit, call me a "rookie" so I just offer something reasonable such as meeting up about halfway between Tennessee and Flordia to train. Balls in your court to drop, I'm not the one talking shit here.

Or maybe you should just try to learn all aspects of the ground game before getting all offended that there are people in the real world much better than you naturally, technically, and mentally.

If I am full of shit call me on it and meet up to roll. Because I surely will be there.
 
I tapped a black belt with a double flying kneebar. Beat that.
 
Soid said:
I tapped a black belt with a double flying kneebar. Beat that.
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Back flip into an RNC! It was off the hook man. I've only been practicing it like a couple of hours too...

;)
 
no, there are nothing wrong with belts. The problem is that us americans have a natural gift to fuck things up (martial arts wise) Brazil is as "western" as america and have no problem with belts. Why you ask? Because bjj is not watered down in brazil. If you have a population where the belt is a true reflection on your techinical ability then there is no problem. Places where belts are a problem have many high ranking belts that don't deserve them.
 
Hate to burst your bubble, but there are plenty of high ranking belts around the world that we would have difficulty considering earned. This includes Brazil. You're noticing those in the US because you have more information about them.
 
blanko said:
no, there are nothing wrong with belts. The problem is that us americans have a natural gift to fuck things up (martial arts wise) Brazil is as "western" as america and have no problem with belts. Why you ask? Because bjj is not watered down in brazil. If you have a population where the belt is a true reflection on your techinical ability then there is no problem. Places where belts are a problem have many high ranking belts that don't deserve them.
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The problem with belts are that people, read not the people who have them, put too much stock in them. People who have no experience in any martial arts watch some movie, see some black belt beating everyone and dodging bullets, and start thinking, "this is what it means to be a black belt."

The problem is there is no way to do a belt system without some subjectiveness. Even if you do it on how much of a bad ass someone is there is still a problem. People get injured. They stop training. They age. They have kids and stop training as intensely. Whatever.

We live in the real world and not some martial arts movie or video game where rankings work out perfectly.
 
I try to go for leglocks sometimes, but I try not to go for them so often that others get use to me doing them and defend against it. I usually try to get them to think I am going for another move such as a standing guard pass then I slap an ankle lock or kneebar on them. I do not put any pressure for the kneebar because once they feel it the damage may have already been done. I can always get them on whitebelts, but the purplebelts usually stop me. I agree studying leglocks and their defences are a good idea but just be careful applying them, you do not want to be known as the douchbag (not applying to you) that broke some guys ankle.
 
TheHighlander,
there is no bubble to burst. Do i think that there are high belts all over the world that can be questioned? Ofcourse. I also think that the US has a serious case of "McDOJO" sickness that causes belts to be "watered down" even more. Look at the boards, every now and then people ask "how long does it take to be a black belt?" and say "that's nonsese, it takes too long ect" and they are mostly americans. IT's the mentality of alot of americans.
 
I have been doing leglocks for a long while now and when I started BJJ I also tapped my instructor with heel hooks and kneebars. I really think leglocks should be studied alot before you get to brown belt which I understand is the level when other leg locks than the sraight ankle lock can be used in competition.
 
blanko said:
TheHighlander,
there is no bubble to burst. Do i think that there are high belts all over the world that can be questioned? Ofcourse. I also think that the US has a serious case of "McDOJO" sickness that causes belts to be "watered down" even more. Look at the boards, every now and then people ask "how long does it take to be a black belt?" and say "that's nonsese, it takes too long ect" and they are mostly americans. IT's the mentality of alot of americans.
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You can't draw that kind of conclusion when the populations you are sampling are of such disparate size. Belt systems are inherently flawed, but they are useful for giving a general indication of skill level. Having rolled with both American and Brazilian black belts I haven't felt that a difference that correlates with the nationality; they are all different.
 
I have a theory on why these days, you don't see too many leg/ankle subs in MMA. I should point out that I don't train, so this is purely a guess ... anyway, I THINK that the problem with these moves are, they're a bit "doe or die" By that I would use the example of Ken Vs Royce 1. I think Ken was confident that he could tap Royce so he left himself open to the choke, and went for the leg. Royce defended it well and sunk in the choke. I think that's the bottom line - only a wizard like Frank and Ken in their prime would really look for that kind of hold, and probably most others would use it if the ideal situation happened, whatever that might be. Am I close?
 
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