Economy Labour is Renationalising British Rail, and considering Renationalising Buses

[650lb Sumo]

History

The railways were nationalised into British Rail in 1948, and reprivatised in 1997, except in Northern Ireland. Note this is a short sentence, obviously books have been written about exactly what this means regarding all aspects of rail transport, if you consider manufacture, maintenance, rolling stock, stations, who owns the rails and land beside them, degree of government oversight etc. etc.

In Great Britain buses were largely nationalised between 1969 and 1986, when they were largely reprivatised. In Northern Ireland they were largely nationalised earlier, from at least 1935, and have not been reprivatised.


Public Discontent with Private Ownership and Control of Utilities and Infrastructure

Here's a list of some national organisations privatised in the UK. I put the biggies and trains, buses and coaches in red.

Spoiler

1970s

British Petroleum (1977, 1979, 1981, 1983, 1987)
British Sugar (1977, 1982)
International Computers Limited (1979)
Lunn Poly (1971)
Rolls-Royce Motors (1973)
State Management Scheme (1973)
Thomas Cook (1972)

1980s

Amersham International (1982)
Associated British Ports (1983, 1984)
British Aerospace (1981, 1985)
British Airports Authority (1987)
British Airways (1987)
British Airways Helicopters (1986)
British Gas (1986)

British Leyland
Alvis (1981)
Coventry Climax (1982)
Danish Automobile Building (1987)
ISTEL (1987)
Jaguar (1984)
Leyland Bus (1987)
Leyland Tractors (1982)
Leyland Trucks (1987)
Rover Group (1988)
Unipart (1987)

British Rail Engineering Limited (1989)
British Shipbuilders (1985–1989, shipbuilder companies sold individually)
British Steel (1988)
British Telecom (1984, 1991, 1993)
British Transport Hotels (1983)
Britoil (1982, 1985)
Cable and Wireless (1981, 1983, 1985)
Council houses (1980–present, over two million sold to their tenants)
Enterprise Oil (1984)
Fairey (1980)
Ferranti (1982)
Harland and Wolff (1989)
Inmos (1984)
Johnson Matthey Bankers (1986)
Municipal bus companies (1988–present, bus companies sold individually)
National Bus Company (1986–1988, bus companies sold individually)
National Express (1988)
National Freight Corporation (1982)
Passenger transport executive bus companies (1988–1994, bus companies sold individually)
Rolls-Royce (1987)
Royal Ordnance (1987)
Sealink (1984)
Short Brothers (1989)
Travellers Fare (1988)
Trustee Savings Bank (1985)
Vale of Rheidol Railway (1989)

Anglian Water (1989)
North West Water (1989)
Northumbrian Water (1989)
Severn Trent (1989)
South West Water (1989)
Southern Water (1989)
Thames Water (1989)
Welsh Water (1989)
Wessex Water (1989)
Yorkshire Water (1989)

1990s

AEA Technology (1996)
Agricultural Development and Advisory Service (1997)
Belfast International Airport (1994)
Birmingham Airport (1993 – 51%)
Bournemouth Airport (1995)
Bristol Airport (1997, 2001)
British Coal (1994)
British Energy (1996, 2007, 2009)

British Rail
3 rolling stock companies:
Angel Trains (1996)
Eversholt Leasing (1996)
Porterbrook (1996)
6 design office units (1995–1997, sold individually)
6 freight operating companies
Freightliner (1995)
Loadhaul (1996)
Mainline Freight (1996)
Rail Express Systems (1996)
Railfreight Distribution (1997)
Transrail Freight (1996)
6 track renewal units (1995–1997, sold individually)
7 infrastructure maintenance units (1995–1997, sold individually)
25 train operating companies (1996, operations contracted out as franchises)
British Rail Research (1996)
British Rail Telecommunications (1995)
European Passenger Services (1996)
Railtrack (1996) (18 October 2002 went into voluntary liquidation), now in public ownership as Network Rail
Red Star Parcels (1995)
Union Railways (1996)

British Technology Group (1992)
Building Research Establishment (1997)
Cardiff Airport (1995)
Central Electricity Generating Board
National Grid (1990)
National Power (1991, 1995)
Powergen (1991, 1995)
Chessington Computer Centre (1996)
Dairy Crest (1996)
East Midlands Airport (1993)
Export Credits Guarantee Department (1991, short term credit business)
Girobank (1990)
Humberside Airport (1999 – 82%)
Kingston Communications (1999, 2007)
Laboratory of the Government Chemist (1996)
Liverpool Airport (1990, 2001)
London Buses (1994, bus companies sold individually)
London Luton Airport (1997)
London Southend Airport (1993)
Mersey Docks and Harbour Company (1998)
Military houses (1996)
National Engineering Laboratory (1995)
National Savings Bank (1999, back office functions contracted out)
National Transcommunications Limited (1990)
Natural Resources Institute (1996)
Northern Ireland Electricity (1993)
Ballylumford power station (1992)
Belfast West power station (1992)
Coolkeeragh power station (1992)
Kilroot power station (1992)
Property Services Agency (1994)
Regional electricity companies
East Midlands Electricity (1990)
Eastern Electricity (1990)
London Electricity (1990)
MANWEB (1990)
Midlands Electricity (1990)
Northern Electric (1990)
NORWEB (1990)
SEEBOARD (1990)
Southern Electric (1990)
SWALEC (1990)
SWEB Energy (1990)
Yorkshire Electricity (1990)
Royal Dockyards
Devonport Dockyard (1993)
Portsmouth Dockyard (1998)
Rosyth Dockyard (1997)
Scottish Bus Group (1991, bus companies sold individually)
Scottish Hydro-Electric (1991)
Scottish Power (1991)
Severn Bridge (1992)
The Stationery Office (1996)
Student Loans (1998, 1999, 2013, mortgage–style loans)
Transport Research Laboratory (1996)

Trust Ports
Clyde (1992)
Dundee (1995)
Forth (1992)
Ipswich (1997)
Medway (1992)
Tees and Hartlepool (1992)
Tilbury (1992)

2000s

Actis (2004, 2012)
BBC Books (2006 – 85%)
BBC Broadcast (2005)
BBC Costumes and Wigs (2008)
BBC Outside Broadcasts (2008)
BBC Technology (2004)
British Nuclear Fuels Limited
AWE Management Limited (2008)
BNG America (2007)
BNG Project Services (2008)
Reactor Sites Management Company (2007)
Westinghouse Electric Company (2006)
East Thames Buses (2009)
Leeds Bradford International Airport (2007)
London Underground (2003, sale of concession to maintain infrastructure for 30 years)
National Air Traffic Services (2001 – 51%)
Newcastle Airport (2001 – 49%)
Partnerships UK (2000, 2011)
Qinetiq (2002, 2006, 2008)
South Eastern Trains (2006)
Teesside International Airport (2003 – 75%)
UKAEA Limited (2009)

2010s

BBC Audiobooks (2010, 2014)
BBC Magazines (2011)
Behavioural Insights Team (2014, 2021)
Bio Products Laboratory (2013, 2016)
British Waterways (2012)
Constructionline (2015)
Defence Support Group (2015)
Dr Foster Intelligence (2015)
East Coast Trains (2015)
Eurostar International Limited (2015 – 40%)
Fire Service College (2013)
Food and Environment Research Agency (2015 – 75%)
Government Pipelines and Storage System (2015)
High Speed 1 (2010; sale of concession to operate for 30 years)
Lloyds Banking Group (2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017)
Manchester Airports Group (2013 – 35%)
Marchwood Military Port (2016; sale of concession to operate for 35 years)
NEC Group (2015)
Network Rail (2019, commercial property business)
Northern Rock (2012)
Northern Rock (Asset Management) (2016)
Remploy (2012, 2013, 2015, factory businesses sold individually)
Royal Bank of Scotland Group (2015, 2018)
Royal Mail (2013, 2015)
Student Loans (2017, 2018, income–contingent loans)
The Tote (2011)
UK Green Investment Bank (2017)
Working Links (2016)

2020s

Bradford & Bingley (2021)
NatWest Group (2021, 2022, 2023, 2024)
NRAM Limited (2021)
Wave Hub (2021)

British Steel is also being considered for renationalisation.

Spoiler: Links

Support for nationalising utilities and public transport has grown significantly in last seven years | YouGov

Large majorities of Britons now want to see water, energy, railway and bus companies nationalised

yougov.co.uk

Support for nationalising the railways disappears if it means ticket prices increasing | YouGov

While two-thirds of Britons favour nationalising the railways in principle, this falls to just 6% if fares continue to rise

yougov.co.uk

[Again, regular (in this context) means at set intervals. It does not mean 'frequent'. YouGov's use is wrong.]

News

Spoiler: Links

Unions hail UK’s rail renationalisation bills as a return to ‘public service’

Separate measures in king’s speech will allow government to take operators into public ownership while Great British Railways is set up

www.theguardian.com

South Western Railway to become first train operator nationalised under Labour

As part of a comprehensive programme of renationalisation, the service will come under public ownership in May

www.theguardian.com

Rail unions have said Britain’s trains will be 'run as a public service, not for private profit, as the new government announced early steps to renationalise the railways in the King’s Speech.

Labour will renationalise rail with two separate bills, decoupling laws to take train services into public ownership from more complex legislation to set up a dedicated public body, Great British Railways (GBR).

The government said that public ownership would be the 'default position' for train operators, while bus services could also be owned and controlled by local councils under other legislation.

The Passenger Railway Services (public ownership) bill will overturn the status quo, under which four of the 14 national train operators are being run by a state-owned 'operator of last resort', which only takes over after a private firm’s failure.

Services will return into state hands as remaining contracts expire over the coming years – or possibly earlier if lawyers advise of potential grounds for breach of contract. Avanti West Coast bosses were put on notice to improve performance in a meeting with the transport secretary, Louise Haigh, on Tuesday. [Louise Haigh resigned after it came to light that she is a convicted fraudster. She has been replaced by Heidi Alexander.]

A separate railways bill will establish GBR in a similar way to the reform proposed under the Conservatives in 2021, creating a 'directing mind' running a 'unified and simplified' rail system, with track and train managed by the same organisation.

Public ownership of buses will also be a possibility under new laws. The better buses bill will extend franchising powers from metro mayors to all local authorities, and remove the bar on contracting municipal bus companies to operate routes. The government said it would enable local leaders to deliver bus networks reflecting the needs of their communities and give councils more control over funding.

South Western Railway will be the first train operator nationalised under the Labour government, ministers are expected to announce this week.

One of the UK’s biggest commuter services, which operates from London Waterloo, it will be taken into public hands in May.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

History

The railways were nationalised into British Rail in 1948, and reprivatised in 1997, except in Northern Ireland. Note this is a short sentence, obviously books have been written about exactly what this means regarding all aspects of rail transport, if you consider manufacture, maintenance, rolling stock, stations, who owns the rails and land beside them, degree of government oversight etc. etc.

In Great Britain buses were largely nationalised between 1969 and 1986, when they were largely reprivatised. In Northern Ireland they were largely nationalised earlier, from at least 1935, and have not been reprivatised.


Public Discontent with Private Ownership and Control of Utilities and Infrastructure

Here's a list of some national organisations privatised in the UK. I put the biggies and trains, buses and coaches in red.

Spoiler

1970s

British Petroleum (1977, 1979, 1981, 1983, 1987)
British Sugar (1977, 1982)
International Computers Limited (1979)
Lunn Poly (1971)
Rolls-Royce Motors (1973)
State Management Scheme (1973)
Thomas Cook (1972)

1980s

Amersham International (1982)
Associated British Ports (1983, 1984)
British Aerospace (1981, 1985)
British Airports Authority (1987)
British Airways (1987)
British Airways Helicopters (1986)
British Gas (1986)

British Leyland
Alvis (1981)
Coventry Climax (1982)
Danish Automobile Building (1987)
ISTEL (1987)
Jaguar (1984)
Leyland Bus (1987)
Leyland Tractors (1982)
Leyland Trucks (1987)
Rover Group (1988)
Unipart (1987)

British Rail Engineering Limited (1989)
British Shipbuilders (1985–1989, shipbuilder companies sold individually)
British Steel (1988)
British Telecom (1984, 1991, 1993)
British Transport Hotels (1983)
Britoil (1982, 1985)
Cable and Wireless (1981, 1983, 1985)
Council houses (1980–present, over two million sold to their tenants)
Enterprise Oil (1984)
Fairey (1980)
Ferranti (1982)
Harland and Wolff (1989)
Inmos (1984)
Johnson Matthey Bankers (1986)
Municipal bus companies (1988–present, bus companies sold individually)
National Bus Company (1986–1988, bus companies sold individually)
National Express (1988)
National Freight Corporation (1982)
Passenger transport executive bus companies (1988–1994, bus companies sold individually)
Rolls-Royce (1987)
Royal Ordnance (1987)
Sealink (1984)
Short Brothers (1989)
Travellers Fare (1988)
Trustee Savings Bank (1985)
Vale of Rheidol Railway (1989)

Anglian Water (1989)
North West Water (1989)
Northumbrian Water (1989)
Severn Trent (1989)
South West Water (1989)
Southern Water (1989)
Thames Water (1989)
Welsh Water (1989)
Wessex Water (1989)
Yorkshire Water (1989)

1990s

AEA Technology (1996)
Agricultural Development and Advisory Service (1997)
Belfast International Airport (1994)
Birmingham Airport (1993 – 51%)
Bournemouth Airport (1995)
Bristol Airport (1997, 2001)
British Coal (1994)
British Energy (1996, 2007, 2009)

British Rail
3 rolling stock companies:
Angel Trains (1996)
Eversholt Leasing (1996)
Porterbrook (1996)
6 design office units (1995–1997, sold individually)
6 freight operating companies
Freightliner (1995)
Loadhaul (1996)
Mainline Freight (1996)
Rail Express Systems (1996)
Railfreight Distribution (1997)
Transrail Freight (1996)
6 track renewal units (1995–1997, sold individually)
7 infrastructure maintenance units (1995–1997, sold individually)
25 train operating companies (1996, operations contracted out as franchises)
British Rail Research (1996)
British Rail Telecommunications (1995)
European Passenger Services (1996)
Railtrack (1996) (18 October 2002 went into voluntary liquidation), now in public ownership as Network Rail
Red Star Parcels (1995)
Union Railways (1996)

British Technology Group (1992)
Building Research Establishment (1997)
Cardiff Airport (1995)
Central Electricity Generating Board
National Grid (1990)
National Power (1991, 1995)
Powergen (1991, 1995)
Chessington Computer Centre (1996)
Dairy Crest (1996)
East Midlands Airport (1993)
Export Credits Guarantee Department (1991, short term credit business)
Girobank (1990)
Humberside Airport (1999 – 82%)
Kingston Communications (1999, 2007)
Laboratory of the Government Chemist (1996)
Liverpool Airport (1990, 2001)
London Buses (1994, bus companies sold individually)
London Luton Airport (1997)
London Southend Airport (1993)
Mersey Docks and Harbour Company (1998)
Military houses (1996)
National Engineering Laboratory (1995)
National Savings Bank (1999, back office functions contracted out)
National Transcommunications Limited (1990)
Natural Resources Institute (1996)
Northern Ireland Electricity (1993)
Ballylumford power station (1992)
Belfast West power station (1992)
Coolkeeragh power station (1992)
Kilroot power station (1992)
Property Services Agency (1994)
Regional electricity companies
East Midlands Electricity (1990)
Eastern Electricity (1990)
London Electricity (1990)
MANWEB (1990)
Midlands Electricity (1990)
Northern Electric (1990)
NORWEB (1990)
SEEBOARD (1990)
Southern Electric (1990)
SWALEC (1990)
SWEB Energy (1990)
Yorkshire Electricity (1990)
Royal Dockyards
Devonport Dockyard (1993)
Portsmouth Dockyard (1998)
Rosyth Dockyard (1997)
Scottish Bus Group (1991, bus companies sold individually)
Scottish Hydro-Electric (1991)
Scottish Power (1991)
Severn Bridge (1992)
The Stationery Office (1996)
Student Loans (1998, 1999, 2013, mortgage–style loans)
Transport Research Laboratory (1996)

Trust Ports
Clyde (1992)
Dundee (1995)
Forth (1992)
Ipswich (1997)
Medway (1992)
Tees and Hartlepool (1992)
Tilbury (1992)

2000s

Actis (2004, 2012)
BBC Books (2006 – 85%)
BBC Broadcast (2005)
BBC Costumes and Wigs (2008)
BBC Outside Broadcasts (2008)
BBC Technology (2004)
British Nuclear Fuels Limited
AWE Management Limited (2008)
BNG America (2007)
BNG Project Services (2008)
Reactor Sites Management Company (2007)
Westinghouse Electric Company (2006)
East Thames Buses (2009)
Leeds Bradford International Airport (2007)
London Underground (2003, sale of concession to maintain infrastructure for 30 years)
National Air Traffic Services (2001 – 51%)
Newcastle Airport (2001 – 49%)
Partnerships UK (2000, 2011)
Qinetiq (2002, 2006, 2008)
South Eastern Trains (2006)
Teesside International Airport (2003 – 75%)
UKAEA Limited (2009)

2010s

BBC Audiobooks (2010, 2014)
BBC Magazines (2011)
Behavioural Insights Team (2014, 2021)
Bio Products Laboratory (2013, 2016)
British Waterways (2012)
Constructionline (2015)
Defence Support Group (2015)
Dr Foster Intelligence (2015)
East Coast Trains (2015)
Eurostar International Limited (2015 – 40%)
Fire Service College (2013)
Food and Environment Research Agency (2015 – 75%)
Government Pipelines and Storage System (2015)
High Speed 1 (2010; sale of concession to operate for 30 years)
Lloyds Banking Group (2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017)
Manchester Airports Group (2013 – 35%)
Marchwood Military Port (2016; sale of concession to operate for 35 years)
NEC Group (2015)
Network Rail (2019, commercial property business)
Northern Rock (2012)
Northern Rock (Asset Management) (2016)
Remploy (2012, 2013, 2015, factory businesses sold individually)
Royal Bank of Scotland Group (2015, 2018)
Royal Mail (2013, 2015)
Student Loans (2017, 2018, income–contingent loans)
The Tote (2011)
UK Green Investment Bank (2017)
Working Links (2016)

2020s

Bradford & Bingley (2021)
NatWest Group (2021, 2022, 2023, 2024)
NRAM Limited (2021)
Wave Hub (2021)

British Steel is also being considered for renationalisation.

Spoiler: Links

Support for nationalising utilities and public transport has grown significantly in last seven years | YouGov

Large majorities of Britons now want to see water, energy, railway and bus companies nationalised

yougov.co.uk

Support for nationalising the railways disappears if it means ticket prices increasing | YouGov

While two-thirds of Britons favour nationalising the railways in principle, this falls to just 6% if fares continue to rise

yougov.co.uk

[Again, regular (in this context) means at set intervals. It does not mean 'frequent'. YouGov's use is wrong.]

News

Spoiler: Links

Unions hail UK’s rail renationalisation bills as a return to ‘public service’

Separate measures in king’s speech will allow government to take operators into public ownership while Great British Railways is set up

www.theguardian.com

South Western Railway to become first train operator nationalised under Labour

As part of a comprehensive programme of renationalisation, the service will come under public ownership in May

www.theguardian.com

Rail unions have said Britain’s trains will be 'run as a public service, not for private profit, as the new government announced early steps to renationalise the railways in the King’s Speech.

Labour will renationalise rail with two separate bills, decoupling laws to take train services into public ownership from more complex legislation to set up a dedicated public body, Great British Railways (GBR).

The government said that public ownership would be the 'default position' for train operators, while bus services could also be owned and controlled by local councils under other legislation.

The Passenger Railway Services (public ownership) bill will overturn the status quo, under which four of the 14 national train operators are being run by a state-owned 'operator of last resort', which only takes over after a private firm’s failure.

Services will return into state hands as remaining contracts expire over the coming years – or possibly earlier if lawyers advise of potential grounds for breach of contract. Avanti West Coast bosses were put on notice to improve performance in a meeting with the transport secretary, Louise Haigh, on Tuesday. [Louise Haigh resigned after it came to light that she is a convicted fraudster. She has been replaced by Heidi Alexander.]

A separate railways bill will establish GBR in a similar way to the reform proposed under the Conservatives in 2021, creating a 'directing mind' running a 'unified and simplified' rail system, with track and train managed by the same organisation.

Public ownership of buses will also be a possibility under new laws. The better buses bill will extend franchising powers from metro mayors to all local authorities, and remove the bar on contracting municipal bus companies to operate routes. The government said it would enable local leaders to deliver bus networks reflecting the needs of their communities and give councils more control over funding.

South Western Railway will be the first train operator nationalised under the Labour government, ministers are expected to announce this week.

One of the UK’s biggest commuter services, which operates from London Waterloo, it will be taken into public hands in May.

That‘s an extremely complex topic on which I have no opinion. What I‘ll say though is that French SNCF and German Deutsche Bahn are both held by the state. The SNCF works pretty well and the DB is a catastrophy. I would need to dig deeper into it but I think that the SNCF is a company ruled by public law while the DB is a corporation held by the state. In the end I am not sure that private/public is the defining factor but rather, the country‘s track record in the management of public infrastructure. France is world class, while Germany is pretty meh in that regard.

 

[Croo67]

The UK transport minister, Heidi Alexander, has no experience in trains or transport in general - in fact, she has no experience in anything as she’s never worked a real job.

I’m sure this will go absolutely brilliantly - ask people in Scotland how their rail network went after the tinpot politicians nationalised it.

I imagine Labour will be dishing out free first class tickets to the illegals whilst nationals are made to stand.

 

[Teppodama]

That‘s an extremely complex topic on which I have no opinion. What I‘ll say though is that French SNCF and German Deutsche Bahn are both held by the state. The SNCF works pretty well and the DB is a catastrophy. I would need to dig deeper into it but I think that the SNCF is a company ruled by public law while the DB is a corporation held by the state. In the end I am not sure that private/public is the defining factor but rather, the country‘s track record in the management of public infrastructure. France is world class, while Germany is pretty meh in that regard.

Its my understanding that there used to be a time in Germany when the trains ran on time.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Its my understanding that there used to be a time in Germany when the trains ran on time.

Was about to reply something then I believe I saw what you did there.

 

[Boxiana]

It would be hard to make the trains in the UK much worse, but I’m sure they’ll manage somehow.

 

[Hugh G Rection]

Anyone old enough to remember British Rail the 1st time round will be shaking their head in disbelief.

While it was defintely cheaper to travel by train when it was nationalised, they were on strike so often that you couldn't reliably travel that way.

 

[The Big Yin]

Its my understanding that there used to be a time in Germany when the trains ran on time.

You're thinking of Italy

 

[The Big Yin]

Extreme price gouging from the private sector Vs extreme incompetence and cronyism of the public sector.

Gee, what a choice

 

[A Very Serious Cat]

The current system isn't great when it can be cheaper to fly to somewhere like Spain than to train to another city in your country. Putting faith in the govt to run bit better however is dubious

 

[no fat chicks]

Good.

 

[ferrisjso]

That‘s an extremely complex topic on which I have no opinion. What I‘ll say though is that French SNCF and German Deutsche Bahn are both held by the state. The SNCF works pretty well and the DB is a catastrophy. I would need to dig deeper into it but I think that the SNCF is a company ruled by public law while the DB is a corporation held by the state. In the end I am not sure that private/public is the defining factor but rather, the country‘s track record in the management of public infrastructure. France is world class, while Germany is pretty meh in that regard.

DB is probably the most beloved railway in the entire world. I don't know wtf you're talking about.

 

[Billy no mates]

Privatization has been shite , public money for private profit even the Conservatives refused to rule out renationalisation in the run in to the 2019 election .

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Excellent.

Do water next, then lets do energy.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

The UK transport minister, Heidi Alexander, has no experience in trains or transport in general - in fact, she has no experience in anything as she’s never worked a real job.

I’m sure this will go absolutely brilliantly - ask people in Scotland how their rail network went after the tinpot politicians nationalised it.

I imagine Labour will be dishing out free first class tickets to the illegals whilst nationals are made to stand.

Jesus Christ you're a miserable cunt.

 

[Croo67]

Jesus Christ you're a miserable cunt.

You’re free to pretend that nationalisation is a win for ‘the people’, but I’ll choose to be realistic.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

You’re free to pretend that nationalisation is a win for ‘the people’, but I’ll choose to be realistic.

How has privatisation improved our rail?

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

DB is probably the most beloved railway in the entire world. I don't know wtf you're talking about.

Are you joking or is your knowledge of the DB limited to some American vloger who liked taking the train in Germany? LMFAO

 

[ferrisjso]

Are you joking or is your knowledge of the DB limited to some American vloger who liked taking the train in Germany? LMFAO

90% of my model train collection is DB. AC model trains are dominated by DB. SBB might be more beloved but Switzerland is small.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

90% of my model train collection is DB. AC model trains are dominated by DB. SBB might be more beloved but Switzerland is small.

Please tell me you are not being serious. Please.