Khamzat Chimaev vs Gordon Ryan in MMA if Khamzat played 'fair' and grappled. How would it go?

[KnightTemplar]

i always thought it was funny that people would say this in an argument about the effectiveness of BJJ.

what happens when the black belt punches a white belt, then? or are jiu jitsu fighters not allowed to punch in this scenario?

When was the last time you saw BJJ fighters punch each other? Unless they cross-train in MMA, Kickboxing etc, they won't have any experience of striking.

 

[shunyata]

When was the last time you saw BJJ fighters punch each other? Unless they cross-train in MMA, Kickboxing etc, they won't have any experience of striking.

In my experience a ton of the guys I've trained with over the years had been cross training MMA or kickboxing by purple belt and beyond. But that was more common with Americans and Eastern Europeans.

The guys I've trained with who never hit a bag, never practiced gnp, and couldn't throw a jab were all Brazilians who were obsessed with the gi and "purity of the art" bs.

Which I always thought was wild, because if you go back a little further in history to the vale tudo era there was a shitload of crosstraining.

 

[koquerelle]

Didn't Couture managed to get a draw against a high-level BJJ guy?

I guess it's possible for Chimaev to get one, but the likely outcome is...

 

[KnightTemplar]

In my experience a ton of the guys I've trained with over the years had been cross training MMA or kickboxing by purple belt and beyond. But that was more common with Americans and Eastern Europeans.

The guys I've trained with who never hit a bag, never practiced gnp, and couldn't throw a jab were all Brazilians who were obsessed with the gi and "purity of the art" bs.

Which I always thought was wild, because if you go back a little further in history to the vale tudo era there was a shitload of crosstraining.

I practice BJJ, and have a great deal of respect for the art/sport. But I'm also aware of it's limitations.

 

[Rallarsvingare]

i always thought it was funny that people would say this in an argument about the effectiveness of BJJ.

what happens when the black belt punches a white belt, then? or are jiu jitsu fighters not allowed to punch in this scenario?

I do think its a bit correct depending on the context, I think the main idea is that if you end up on the ground with a superior BJJ athlete the only option to beat them there is GnP. That BJJ and MMA is a complete different sport and you have to be able to handle other aspects.

But I would also add that the same thing would apply to all styles, wrestling included. Ive trained with a ton of wrestlers, some were great wrestlers, som even became great submissions artists, however a lot of them had problem taking a punch or kick. I had one teammate who was a wrestler, competed at a high national level in BJJ, however he failed miserably in MMA because he panicked when it came to striking, a jab to the face would have him running backwards.

 

[randomg1t]

When was the last time you saw BJJ fighters punch each other? Unless they cross-train in MMA, Kickboxing etc, they won't have any experience of striking.

I do think its a bit correct depending on the context, I think the main idea is that if you end up on the ground with a superior BJJ athlete the only option to beat them there is GnP. That BJJ and MMA is a complete different sport and you have to be able to handle other aspects.

But I would also add that the same thing would apply to all styles, wrestling included. Ive trained with a ton of wrestlers, some were great wrestlers, som even became great submissions artists, however a lot of them had problem taking a punch or kick. I had one teammate who was a wrestler, competed at a high national level in BJJ, however he failed miserably in MMA because he panicked when it came to striking, a jab to the face would have him running backwards.

right, but what are we talking about here?

if the context is a street fight, then why assume that the other guy knows how to do gnp? so the black belt who's spent 15 years grappling has no idea how to throw or block a punch on the ground, but the average joe that's fighting him knows how to bash his face in like fedor without getting triangled?

if the context is an MMA fight, then any black belt who hasn't worked with strikes in preparation for it is an idiot. so clearly, we should assume that they have at least some experience with it.

saying "punch a black belt he becomes a brown belt" in either scenario is silly. gnp isn't easy, it takes a lot of practice and a lot of positional awareness to do effectively.

 

[shunyata]

right, but what are we talking about here?

if the context is a street fight, then why assume that the other guy knows how to do gnp? so the black belt who's spent 15 years grappling has no idea how to throw or block a punch on the ground, but the average joe that's fighting him knows how to bash his face in like fedor without getting triangled?

if the context is an MMA fight, then any black belt who hasn't worked with strikes in preparation for it is an idiot. so clearly, we should assume that they have at least some experience with it.

saying "punch a black belt he becomes a brown belt" in either scenario is silly. gnp isn't easy, it takes a lot of practice and a lot of positional awareness to do effectively.

I'm sorry but I'm dying laughing at the idea of average Josef Emelianenko.

 

[ChickenBrother]

I'm sorry but I'm dying laughing at the idea of average Josef Emelianenko.

 

[Rallarsvingare]

right, but what are we talking about here?

if the context is a street fight, then why assume that the other guy knows how to do gnp? so the black belt who's spent 15 years grappling has no idea how to throw or block a punch on the ground, but the average joe that's fighting him knows how to bash his face in like fedor without getting triangled?

if the context is an MMA fight, then any black belt who hasn't worked with strikes in preparation for it is an idiot. so clearly, we should assume that they have at least some experience with it.

saying "punch a black belt he becomes a brown belt" in either scenario is silly. gnp isn't easy, it takes a lot of practice and a lot of positional awareness to do effectively.

Well from the context Ive first heard about it was wrestler vs bjj matches. From what I understood its always been from the context that you might beat a superior grappler(black belt) with GnP.

But besides that I mostly agree with you.