Karo's no-gi Judo

[Grappler111]

This is absolutely beautiful. People go on an on about wretling being superior to Judo in MMA, but I think it's really the combination of 'nogi' preparation they have already which suits mma and the larger numbers of amateur wrestlers who choose to cross over.

You can see alot of the wrestlers pushing for their supplex and thinking 'just a bit more' and then boom - they are flying 180 degrees through the air.



The more upright stance of Judo is way more applicable for fighting. It allows striking and clinch/dirty boxing alot more.
Again, if no-Gi Judo was a thing in the Judo community it would be I believe an easy choice as a main standing grappling and top control base, with some elements of wrestling as supplementary.

In this forum wrestling = usa folkstyle.
But freestyle wrestling is the bigger style and incorporate a lot of throws banned in folkstyle. I'm speaking about upper body throws and you can see a lot of international wrestlers from Europe with upper stance. A lot of top freestyle wrestlers cross train in greco roman style.

United World Wrestling have different wrestling styles : freestyle/greco, beach wrestling, grappling (freestyle+bjj) and Pankration.

A pair of examples :



A couple of mma wrestling vs judo?

MoLawal (lhw freestyle wrestler) vs Satoshi Ishii (judo HW Olympic gold medal).

Michael Chandler (Ncca) vs Rich Hawn (judo olympian)

Rulon Gardner vs Yoshida
J. Taylor vs Yonn Dong Sik (World class judoka)
Brock Lesnar (mma debut) vs Min soo Kim (judo Olympic medalist).
Lawal vs Teodoras Aukstuolis
Kevin Randleman vs Michiyoshi Ohara
Dan Henderson vs Shungo Oyama
......

Wrestlers have gain a lot of belts in over 30 years of mma. Judo in over 30 years of mma has not a male ufc belt...

 

[Salves sod Iqueac]

But I think we need to clarify - body control is one of the hearts of combat.
Grappling arts focus on this, in that sense Judo, freestyle,Greco and catch are all forms of 'wrestling'.
But this is the difference with regards martial arts- awareness of positions for submissions and strikes.
A clueless amateur wrestler who dives in to 'out wrestle' his opponent for a takedown in a fight but leaves his head exposed to a guilotine is akin to a child attempting to enter the man's world of combat.

Judo has no striking awareness, BJJ does, it is actually what makes BJJ be BJJ and not Judo.

Judo, 'the gentle way' and the code of ethics that Jigoro Kano espoused represents the current that is forever the symbol of the core of martial arts. Almost all who have ever been successful in MMA have been initiated into his system or derivative one way or another as fitting demonstration of this, a claim few if any other systems can make.

Not "or", certainly in a derived one. BJJ.

Universally almost all successful MMA fighters have been initiated into the art of Judo, or one of it's derivatives.

Again. Not "or", but certainly in a derived one. In BJJ.

Wrestlers have gain a lot of belts in over 30 years of mma. Judo in over 30 years of mma has not a male ufc belt...

Exactly, and CACC, which still lives and is practiced and accessible, was part of and influenced the BJJ.

The Gi, the name Jiu Jitsu, and the Japanese "air" remained because it was better for marketing "Karate Kid" type of thing, and probably for nipophilia (love for everything Japanese), Helio was certainly one. Speaking of samurai when talking about Maeda, and the speech after the grappling match between Royce and Yoshida.

I already talked (at least on reddit, I don't know if here) about how CACC influenced Judo back there, Pop Moore was called by Kano himself to teach his students.

The popularity of Judo is due to the Olympics, and most Judo players do not follow any philosophical nonsense. Just look and you will find stories.

The resentful ignorance of it by those uninitiated in it's mysteries, is akin to the foolhardy son acting out his adolescent rebellion against the perennial wisdom of the father.

Judo sucks for MMA, and grappling, and anything other than Judo, with an exception here and there because even a broken watch is right twice a day, so judokas have ... issues ... they had more than their fair share of art practitioners in MMA, at least three medalists, and all have failed, so they need a way to feel better, attacking BJJ is one of them, Basically Just Judo being one of those means (they cannot question BJJ effectiveness soon they say it's judo), it happened that this time the target was wrestling. Welcome to the club I think?

 

[Grappler111]

I coach a freestyle and greco wrestling team. Alot of our best athletes either started in or cross trained in judo. I also had trained there, but hated the gi, and just spent a year figuring out how to incorporate more judo style throws into our curriculum and my repertoire. I love Karos no gi judo. It's amazing. His arm throws are legendary, I don't think anyone besides Rousey and Akiyama have used judo as successfully as Karo did in MMA

See Russian (and ex URSS block) freestyle wrestling system. They have incorporate a lot of no jacket and jacket techniques from traditional styles inside Olympic wrestling. Another example is the mongolian wrestling team and the Turkish wrestling team.
Top freestyle wrestlers cross train in greco and beach wrestling. Beach wrestling is very interesting and underrated style but very effective : upper posture, a lot of clinch and foot sweeps.

 

[Grappler111]

About the title of the tread... Karo (and Ronda Rousey) trains Wrestling with Leo Frincu, the smaller fighter with black shorts in this video :

 

[CinemaKingdom]

Yeah I have trained it before and had some success with it.

 

[Salves sod Iqueac]

About the title of the tread... Karo (and Ronda Rousey) trains Wrestling with Leo Frincu, the smaller fighter with black shorts in this video :

Not only that, Gene LeBell who trained both Karo and Ronda is a CACC wrestler. Ronda also trained BJJ with a member of the Gracie family, Rene Gracie I think, and trained with a Brazilian boyfriend too if I'm not mistaken.

Interesting that both are considered among the best, if not the best, representatives of Judo in MMA ...

 

[Bluesbreaker]

In this thread, I see the arguing skills of a 10 year old... or a Republican.

 

[Salves sod Iqueac]

Almost all who have ever been successful in MMA have been initiated into his system or derivative one way or another as fitting demonstration of this, a claim few if any other systems can make.

Looks more like

"Almost all who have ever been successful in MMA have been initiated into BJJ system, and not Judo, one way or another as fitting demonstration of this."

In this thread, I see the arguing skills of a 10 year old... or a Republican.

This is Sherdog, did you expect different?

 

[Salves sod Iqueac]

Hayastan guys "No-Gi Judo". It is obviously Catch as Catch Can Wrestling, taught by Catch wrestler Gene Lebell.

 

[Q_mystic-0]

yeah, maybe catch.lol. I mean in 40 years of all combat sports and not meeting 1 'catch' fella, that even actually did it, well then, it is superior.

I suspect 'catch' is what they call Judoka/wrestlers that are in not thier 1st bar fight.

 

[Q_mystic-0]

In this forum wrestling = usa folkstyle.
But freestyle wrestling is the bigger style and incorporate a lot of throws banned in folkstyle. I'm speaking about upper body throws and you can see a lot of international wrestlers from Europe with upper stance. A lot of top freestyle wrestlers cross train in greco roman style.

United World Wrestling have different wrestling styles : freestyle/greco, beach wrestling, grappling (freestyle+bjj) and Pankration.

A pair of examples :



A couple of mma wrestling vs judo?

MoLawal (lhw freestyle wrestler) vs Satoshi Ishii (judo HW Olympic gold medal).

Michael Chandler (Ncca) vs Rich Hawn (judo olympian)

Rulon Gardner vs Yoshida
J. Taylor vs Yonn Dong Sik (World class judoka)
Brock Lesnar (mma debut) vs Min soo Kim (judo Olympic medalist).
Lawal vs Teodoras Aukstuolis
Kevin Randleman vs Michiyoshi Ohara
Dan Henderson vs Shungo Oyama
......

Wrestlers have gain a lot of belts in over 30 years of mma. Judo in over 30 years of mma has not a male ufc belt...

Yeah, I did one (albeit with a lot more fights) back in 2009. World level wrestling vs same in judo. Judo had a slight edge.

 

[vcmmafan]

i got that dvd back in 2009 2010 was bit disappointed tbh

it’s also hard to find

 

[LoneLynx]

I'm not sure why you say this. Judo technique carries a certain philosophical natuer which is contrary to wrestling... generalized submission grappling I guess. The gi is an aid to learning the art... and goes way beyond technique. It's HOW O Ouchi gari (in the OP vid) is performed, not 'takedown.' Here's none other than Ronda Rousey with a demo, though she makes for a very poor ambassador of traditional Judo, IHMO.
How to do an Ouchi Gari Grip in Judo | Ronda Rousey’s Dojo #9
310,135 views
•Oct 24, 2019


Ronda Rousey
926K subscribers

Judo Olympian Ronda Rousey goes through the basic ouchi gari technique step-by-step for aspiring judokas. Do it a million billion times because it links to nearly everything!

llllI'll There's Judo lessons in this video. One is most people don't understand that there is different approaches to effecting the throw. This makes it quite versatile in actual application. It also allows for both individual expression in action. Ouchi gari here is done with two different variations on the opening move,,, or subvariations although maybe Ronda doesn't recognize it... she's so hard wired having done the throw a 'billion' times... as the byline states.

A second lesson is that it isn't necessary to get the arm release that Karo goes for in his MMA demo. Not that that isn't a nice wrinkle and only serves to highlight the versatility of the philosophy of the overall through. We spend time with the gi in Judo so as to learn, get, then hone the particular technique. Not get caught up in the equipment or other physical trappings of the art like MMA with it's 'cage control,' etc. So stupid. The global challenge is to control the opponent. The cage is just some ancillary factor.

I feel for me this throw makes a good alternative, but it's not one of my bread & butters. Very smart one to have in your arsenal, however, I totally get with Ronda on that score.

One final word, or lesson. Ronda is practicing with a larger, stronger male. Philosophically, this is the practical aim of Judo... to overcome the greater physical challenge with the philosophy of the art... which does spring from a millions-billion practices. For the Roses of the world,,, you don't try to dodge Andrade,,, you use all her size & strength against her which takes considerably more skill than the great wrestling Jessica does have. On the philosophy end, never rely on technique absent philosophy. It's not about just feeling good... it's about remaining true to the core principles of the art... which makes for one big lesson Ronda whiffed.

It’s cool that Ronda is still doing Judo videos, I didn’t know she did that

 

[StanClarker]

It’s cool that Ronda is still doing Judo videos, I didn’t know she did that

For WMMA... Ronda was the sheet of her time.

What took her down was not having my moderation available....

 

[StanClarker]

It’s cool that Ronda is still doing Judo videos, I didn’t know she did that

MMA is enamored with wrestling. And though I'm judo... I've found the TGF wrestling resources highly interesting.

As you may know, MMA considers wrestling one of the best base arts. And it can be, is. That, however, stems from both certain rule set advantages... and the ignorance about Judo... particularly beginning with the philosophy. For example, in the Rener Gracie / Ronda vid above... Rener says no one has figured out (MMA) how to defend the arm bar.... Ronda's arm bar.

Rener says every position has a defense... which is good coaching. Judo's emphasis on philosophy addresses this... Rener's wisdom has a philosophical origin.

In any event, the wrestling base prized so much by MMA... has definite philosophical disadvantages... some of which are eased by the MMA ruleset. Ronda knows a ton about Judo... if anyone is interested in her training. She explains very well too. Very nice material... the depth goes beyond wrestling. Not sayin do Judo.

Just sayin.

 

[tekkenfan]

it’s also hard to find

not online

 

[Salves sod Iqueac]

Yeah, I did one (albeit with a lot more fights) back in 2009. World level wrestling vs same in judo. Judo had a slight edge.

Still, the coach of Ronda Rousey and Karo Parisyan Gene LeBell is ... a CACC guy.

 

[joyoca9897]

(they cannot question BJJ effectiveness soon they say it's judo)

Hayastan guys "No-Gi Judo". It is obviously Catch as Catch Can Wrestling,

It's funny how this two statements complement each other. What if you cannot question Judo effectiveness so you say it's CACC?

 

[Ryo]

Still, the coach of Ronda Rousey and Karo Parisyan Gene LeBell is ... a CACC guy.

Lol you are so ridiculous. Claiming that Karo and Rondas throwing is good because of CACC.

You say many dumb things throughout your career here on sherdog. Hard to take you seriously. There is a reason Judo Gene took up Judo...

 

[Ryo]

Akiyama would toss Karo gi or no gi.