Karo's no-gi Judo

I wish Jason Morris would make a No-gi judo instructional. He is a Olympic silver medalist in Judo and I beleive he coached Rhonda Rousey for a while. On top of that he is a wrestling all american and a state wrestling champ. Here is a highlight video of him "wrestling". I'd like an instructional on these moves.



This is absolutely beautiful. People go on an on about wretling being superior to Judo in MMA, but I think it's really the combination of 'nogi' preparation they have already which suits mma and the larger numbers of amateur wrestlers who choose to cross over.

You can see alot of the wrestlers pushing for their supplex and thinking 'just a bit more' and then boom - they are flying 180 degrees through the air.

tbh certain things just dont work well in no gi judo especially when comes to mma

o uchi gari the wrestling inside trip way is much better i feel dropping all way down with knee i feel judo guys when they lock up dont feel near as tight as wrestlers do they like to get wrist control a single underhook ad at times collar ties from what i see u rarely see any of the big counter throws like tai toshi mostly u see uchi mata harai goshi or seio nage type throws u dont see other throws outside of those hardly at pro mma level

i just feel if u wana be a no gi takedown guy its best to learn wrestling as wrestlers have better control judo guys like to stand taller wrestlers have lower center of gravity on average so they will have the advantage

The more upright stance of Judo is way more applicable for fighting. It allows striking and clinch/dirty boxing alot more.
Again, if no-Gi Judo was a thing in the Judo community it would be I believe an easy choice as a main standing grappling and top control base, with some elements of wrestling as supplementary.
 
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I coach a freestyle and greco wrestling team. Alot of our best athletes either started in or cross trained in judo. I also had trained there, but hated the gi, and just spent a year figuring out how to incorporate more judo style throws into our curriculum and my repertoire. I love Karos no gi judo. It's amazing. His arm throws are legendary, I don't think anyone besides Rousey and Akiyama have used judo as successfully as Karo did in MMA
 
I coach a freestyle and greco wrestling team. Alot of our best athletes either started in or cross trained in judo. I also had trained there, but hated the gi, and just spent a year figuring out how to incorporate more judo style throws into our curriculum and my repertoire. I love Karos no gi judo. It's amazing. His arm throws are legendary, I don't think anyone besides Rousey and Akiyama have used judo as successfully as Karo did in MMA
I remember Yoshida used it pretty well in a bunch of fights as well.
 
I remember Yoshida used it pretty well in a bunch of fights as well.
Tons of Japanese fighters have. Sakurai is one name that immediately to mind. Mishima, TK are two others. Sakurai has a strong wrestling emphasis from Kiguchi Dojo but his judo was always a major part of his offense.
 
On a technical level I think no-gi Judo gels better with a catch approach. The emphasis on top control and the more explosive pace and submissions of Judo compared to BJJ fits naturally with catch.
Its funny, the UFC recently posted GSP vs Karo on their YouTube channel. You can easily see the CACC influence in Karo's game. Every time GSP locked up with Karo or had Karo on his back Karo was snatching up a submission. Even if it was just to slow GSP down or get to a better position, it all revolved around catch wrestling. Karo had it down but even a green GSP was a nightmare to grapple with.
 
Tons of Japanese fighters have. Sakurai is one name that immediately to mind. Mishima, TK are two others. Sakurai has a strong wrestling emphasis from Kiguchi Dojo but his judo was always a major part of his offense.
Fun fact, Kiguchi gave a prime Dan Gable all he could hand at the AAU nationals back in the day.

This is one reason why Japanese MMA was so awesome. Soooo much crosstraining. Judo, freestyle, greco, shooto, shootboxing, combat wrestling, karate, bjj all thrown in together.
 
its very hard t hit judo throws on good guys inn mma just a fact theirs reason most guys go for double legs body locks and high crotch dump finishes
One of Karo's main training partners from early on was Leo Frincu. World class greco guy (won junior world's). Id have to think he helped Karo make his game suitable for MMA.
 
Fun fact, Kiguchi gave a prime Dan Gable all he could hand at the AAU nationals back in the day.

This is one reason why Japanese MMA was so awesome. Soooo much crosstraining. Judo, freestyle, greco, shooto, shootboxing, combat wrestling, karate, bjj all thrown in together.
You have to throw in the "c" word, my brother. "Catch wrestling." Kiguchi would be upset if you didn't!
 
One of Karo's main training partners from early on was Leo Frincu. World class greco guy (won junior world's). Id have to think he helped Karo make his game suitable for MMA.

yeah people get amd when is ayt his about judo for mma but the stats dont lie they wana brag on ronda but womens mma isnt near as technical talented as mens mma and even ronda phased out she dominated early in womens mma

to me it seems judo is best used defensivly with takedowns than being offensive usually guys hit throws off single leg counters or a guy pushing into them seio nages are like lat drops in when guy is pushing in with his underhook so to me i feel judo isnt enough to use itself as your takedown game and try to be a grappler whos gameplan is to go out and take his man down every fight
 
Thank you to tekkenfan for his PhD level judo knowledge in this thread.
 
This is absolutely beautiful. People go on an on about wretling being superior to Judo in MMA, but I think it's really the combination of 'nogi' preparation they have already which suits mma and the larger numbers of amateur wrestlers who choose to cross over.

You can see alot of the wrestlers pushing for their supplex and thinking 'just a bit more' and then boom - they are flying 180 degrees through the air.



The more upright stance of Judo is way more applicable for fighting. It allows striking and clinch/dirty boxing alot more.
Again, if no-Gi Judo was a thing in the Judo community it would be I believe an easy choice as a main standing grappling and top control base, with some elements of wrestling as supplementary.

i prefer a boxing stance a slight crouch bend in knees and slight hunch forward to get more distance with punches ad can flow easier into takedowns in clinch once get my udnerhook i do stand a bit taller keeping good chest t chest contact
 
Thank you to tekkenfan for his PhD level judo knowledge in this thread.

Lol I was thinking the same. It seems like everytime I see a Judo thread hes inserting that PHD knowledge and telling us (by the numbers lol) all about Judos success.
 
Purple under Gokor and trained with Karo, Gokor, Gene et al for years before moving north.

Did you have any more specific questions about judo for MMA / no gi judo?

It's mostly just adapting to no gi grip fighting then you're good to go.

Collar tie for a high lapel grip, wrist or tricep control for a sleave grip. Over and under hooks, etc.

I like harai goshi and reaping throws alot in nogi but I'm also a tall leggy bastard who uses them in the gi too. In mma against an orthodox kickboxing stance, left sided o soto gari is just right there if you can enter and clinch.
 
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Purple under Gokor and trained with Karo, Gokor, Gene et al for years before moving north.

Did you have any more specific questions about judo for MMA / no gi judo?

It's mostly just adapting to no gi grip fighting then you're good to go.

Collar tie for a high lapel grip, wrist or tricep control for a sleave grip. Over and under hooks, etc.

I like harai goshi and reaping throws alot in nogi but I'm also a tall leggy bastard who uses them in the gi too. In mma against an orthodox kickboxing stance, left sided o soto gari is just right there if you can enter and clinch.

I think you can share alot.
So first up with 'Judo' Gene I think he actually incorporates alot of catch into his game, one of the parallels I mentioned is the pace and explosiveess of Judo and catch compared with BJJ. This is maybe why some pure Judokas who were green at MMA tended to gas early like Pawel Nastula (altho he was really thrown to the Lions due his Judo pedigree). The explosiveness is I believe better for the franzy of real combat also.

I think that fighting in a ring vs cage also makes it easier for wrestlers, since you can just bumrush someone up against the cage and then work from there for a leg takedown.

I think alot of the classical throws such as Ippon seo nage have too much back turning as well, so hip throws with the nearside over or underhook like Uki goshi or Harai or as u mentioned reaping techniques and footsweep or counters from failed takedowns are the way to go.
Even if used primarily as a counterattack approach to complement striking it can be great.

The Hayastan guys are doing an integrated system but then again so is everyone nowadays. Too bad Karo couldn't hold it together mentally or whatever reasons with the pain killers, he should've had much longer run in the UFC we only saw part of his potential.

I feel a guy who adds this level of Judo to his game is like operating on an meta level compared with a standard wrestling approach, so many more opportunities become available.
 
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A man does not get preoccupied by what doesn't concern him.

It's funny; one can find no shortage of people pretty much all over otherwise disparate parts elsewhere in the martial arts world, that each love to bag on the proverbial 'wrestler' in their verbal effusion (a imaginary construct that really exists more in their heads than having anything to do with actual people who happen to participate in wrestling sports); something that is probably not unrelated to the fact of the endemic dominance and winningness in competitive outlets of persons learned in such matters.

Wrestling, broadly construed, is the core and the center and the source of martial arts; it is the primal and the ancient; it is the sinews that hold the varietous limbs of the body of combat together. The resentful ignorance of it by those uninitiated in it's mysteries, is akin to the foolhardy son acting out his adolescent rebellion against the perennial wisdom of the father.
 
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Lol I was thinking the same. It seems like everytime I see a Judo thread hes inserting that PHD knowledge and telling us (by the numbers lol) all about Judos success.
he sure is ufc data doesnt lie about throws in mma
 
A man does not get preoccupied by what doesn't concern him.

It's funny; one can find no shortage of people pretty much all over otherwise disparate parts elsewhere in the martial arts world, that each love to bag on the proverbial 'wrestler' in their verbal effusion (a imaginary construct that really exists more in their heads than having anything to do with actual people who happen to participate in wrestling sports); something that is probably not unrelated to the fact of the endemic dominance and winningness in competitive outlets of persons learned in such matters.

Wrestling, broadly construed, is the core and the center and the source of martial arts; it is the primal and the ancient; it is the sinews that hold the varietous limbs of the body of combat together. The resentful ignorance of it by those uninitiated in it's mysteries, is akin to the foolhardy son acting out his adolescent rebellion against the perennial wisdom of the father.

Such eloquent poetry for sherdog.
But I think we need to clarify - body control is one of the hearts of combat.
Grappling arts focus on this, in that sense Judo, freestyle,Greco and catch are all forms of 'wrestling'.
But this is the difference with regards martial arts- awareness of positions for submissions and strikes.
A clueless amateur wrestler who dives in to 'out wrestle' his opponent for a takedown in a fight but leaves his head exposed to a guilotine is akin to a child attempting to enter the man's world of combat.

In this regard, grappling systems designed with submissions in mind such as Judo are already incorporating that, which is why freestyle wrestlers must learn Judo positions (BJJ) to have any chance at being successful.

I think it was said by Olympic freestyle great Mark Schulz that "wrestling, is supposed to be submission wrestling"

Interestingly Schulz says he went 20 minutes with Rickson without getting tapped even not having submission experience. But he had learned a bit from Judo to keep his elbows in and chin tucked and this was enough to keep him safe.

https://www.bjjee.com/bjj-news/wres...tz-promoted-to-bjj-black-belt-by-pedro-sauer/

In that his point was made, and the history of freestyle in being a watered down version of catch originally supports this. Although I would say that safely controlling and throwing your opponent is an integral part of this also.

This is why one cannot stand seeing a BJJ tourney where one guy is clinging onto an arm while lifted upside down - oblivious to the fact he can be slammed into his head on the floor, utterly ridiculous and as unbalanced as a martial rookie freestyle wrestler leaving his neck open to a choke.

Judo, catch, and wrestlers trained in submissions present the natural return to what grappling was always supposed to be.
 
This is absolutely beautiful. People go on an on about wretling being superior to Judo in MMA, but I think it's really the combination of 'nogi' preparation they have already which suits mma and the larger numbers of amateur wrestlers who choose to cross over.

You can see alot of the wrestlers pushing for their supplex and thinking 'just a bit more' and then boom - they are flying 180 degrees through the air.



The more upright stance of Judo is way more applicable for fighting. It allows striking and clinch/dirty boxing alot more.
Again, if no-Gi Judo was a thing in the Judo community it would be I believe an easy choice as a main standing grappling and top control base, with some elements of wrestling as supplementary.

Some good points. I do almost exclusively NoGi BJJ as I feel its more real world applicable than Gi and have always considered the lack of takedowns to be the big weakness of BJJ in general. Since wrestling is not big here (UK) I have always thought a "street" style of Judo would be popular with a lot of people and a more applicable grappling base for those like me whose background is boxing/MT.
 
yeah people get amd when is ayt his about judo for mma but the stats dont lie they wana brag on ronda but womens mma isnt near as technical talented as mens mma and even ronda phased out she dominated early in womens mma

to me it seems judo is best used defensivly with takedowns than being offensive usually guys hit throws off single leg counters or a guy pushing into them seio nages are like lat drops in when guy is pushing in with his underhook so to me i feel judo isnt enough to use itself as your takedown game and try to be a grappler whos gameplan is to go out and take his man down every fight
Ya know, I'm not so sure judo couldn't be as effective as wrestling in MMA. I remember Chris Leben, after the Akiyama fight saying he trained with a bunch of really good wrestlers for that fight and the fight before it, but the judo was just so much trickier to defend. I'd like to find as many examples as I could and compare. Also, in MMA, I'd say judoka crosstrain wrestling more than wrestlers crosstrain judo. How many fights can u think of that feature judo vs wrestling? Off the top of my head:
Chael vs Bryan Baker in WEC was good.
Karo vs Diego
Lombard vs Boetsch
Akiyama vs Shields
Randleman vs Nakamura
 
It's funny that people in here are obsessing over the idea of Judo VS wrestling while talking about Karo and Hayastan.

At Hayastan it's basically Judo + Sambo + Eastern bloc / Armenian submission wrestling for mma and sub grappling rulesets.

Shut up with your style vs style nonsense and just throw people.

Judo is the art of YEETing humans. I don't care if they have a canvas jacket or not.




Go do a few hundred uchikomi entries no gi, then talk about that.

Don't talk about judo this, wrestling that.
 
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