Economy Justin Trudeau announces 'crack-down' on Airbnbs

[Rob Battisti]

Idk that I'll ever buy into a "woe is the landlord" narrative and I've been pretty convinced that landlords in general are a problem but the idea that AirBnBs are responsible for the housing crisis and that the solution is to crackdown on them represents a far more harmful, anti-market narrative pushed by progressives who want to do anything to fix the housing crisis except the one thing that actually works which is to allow developers to build more housing.

This is, and has always been, a monetary issue. When money debases, you need supplemental income. The safest way to do that is to own and rent a property.

Does this contribute to the housing market shortage? Sure.

However, you can’t disallow this kind of investment without being completely authoritarian AND in trying to do so you do nothing to solve the issue of monetary debasement.

Everyone thinks I’m a landlord but I am not — yet. In 2025 I will likely buy multiple properties so that I can create generational wealth for my family.

 

[Rob Battisti]

Do you think it's a good thing if an individual owns three or four houses and uses them for short-term rental?

Yes

What isn’t good is China buying thousands of properties and using them as AirBNBs.

Even that is a monetary issue due to the Yuan debasing like mad.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Airbnbs are a cancer. They turn into nothing but party houses and areas to run drugs, guns and human trafficking.

Party houses I've heard of but this is the first time I ve ever heard those other things associated with AirBnB.

Its probably varies a lot. I worked on an AirBnB once and the few times I ran into the people renting it out they were fairly normal looking tourists, one a Chinese family and the other a young European couple.

This is, and has always been, a monetary issue. When money debases, you need supplemental income. The safest way to do that is to own and rent a property.

Does this contribute to the housing market shortage? Sure.

However, you can’t disallow this kind of investment without being completely authoritarian AND in trying to do so you do nothing to solve the issue of monetary debasement.

Everyone thinks I’m a landlord but I am not — yet. In 2025 I will likely buy multiple properties so that I can create generational wealth for my family.

Its an issue of a shortage of supply which NIMBYs actively promote. I don't want to ban landlords but we should tax land value heavily to discourage speculative investment in land.

 

[Scerpi]

Do you think it's a good thing if an individual owns three or four houses and uses them for short-term rental?

Why is it your fucking business? It’s their money to invest.

It’s neither good or bad. Just because you’re an envious NPC, it doesn’t mean it’s “evil”

Why has this become an issue now? Why policies have created the conditions that have lead to massively inflated home prices?

Rentals - both long and short, are key pieces of the economy.

I know you dopes see landlords as evil villains. But apartments and home rentals are essential for many people. I rented for almost 15 years before buying my home.

In the end, people like you prefer these to be state run with pricing controls, completely ignoring how these models massively fail over and over.

 

[aerius]

Good. Fuck AirBnBs. If you're gonna rent out your home as a business, it damn well better be taxed as a business and meet all the regulations for being a motel since it effectively is one. Wanna run an AirBnB out of your home? Fine. But you're gonna pay commercial property tax rates and it'll need to meet all commercial accessibility, safety, and liability standards. Oh I'm sorry, it's not profitable anymore? Too fucking bad.

 

[Rob Battisti]

Its an issue of a shortage of supply which NIMBYs actively promote. I don't want to ban landlords but we should tax land value heavily to discourage speculative investment in land.

Which is a punishment because of bad monetary policy.

What’s funny about China buying up property in Canada? It’s a massive issue.

 

[shunyata]

Idk that I'll ever buy into a "woe is the landlord" narrative and I've been pretty convinced that landlords in general are a problem but the idea that AirBnBs are responsible for the housing crisis and that the solution is to crackdown on them represents a far more harmful, anti-market narrative pushed by progressives who want to do anything to fix the housing crisis except the one thing that actually works which is to allow developers to build more housing.

Or we can just make it easier for the market to supply more housing instead of trying to take it from those who already have their own.

Remember when Canada realized it was a problem that Chinese investors were buying up apartments and single family homes all over the greater Vancouver area but then did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about domestic private equity firms buying up housing all over the country to jack up rental rates and housing prices?


It's not the small business landlords manipulating the whole market. It's the companies who gobble up housing like chicken feed.

 

[Wrath of Foamy]

I don't have an issue with AirBnBs on an individual level, but here in the UK, our coastal areas have been slammed because of AirBnB investments and second homes leaving small towns and villages looking like ghosttowns for much of the year.

There should definitely be restrictions.

 

[Scerpi]

You're both wrong, its not because of STRs or immigrants but because of NIMBYs.

Left wing populists want to ban landlords and right wing populists want to ban immigrants but neither of those solutions addresses the core problem of lack of housing supply due to onerous regulations.

Don’t want to ban immigrants. There’s a good medium between zero immigrants and letting immigrates in unabated

But if there’s shortages, need to address them.

Canada and Cali go hand in hand

Cali tries to blames shortages on everything except the massive over-relegation to building housing.

Don’t know if Canada faces similar restrictions

Ever since we here in the Houston area started seeing a massive flow of people from both coasts, there’s been a huge construction boom. Every direction… except out into the Bay.

And the heated housing and rentals prices have cooled off significantly.

I mean, I even saw new housing here where they built bulkheads on Clear Lake to create more land for housing

Government needs to get out of the way in these situations and not be a huge part of the problem. Provide an environment to allow people to create solutions

And I don’t mean ignoring building codes… lol.

Yes, there’s shit landlords

And I know a few people with one or two rentals. And there’s more than few shit renters

Down the street from me, I saw a rental that’ was practically destroyed and had to be gutted because of renters. It took almost 6 months to evict them

 

[UberHere]

Do you think it's a good thing if an individual owns three or four houses and uses them for short-term rental?

Not if you’re a communist

 

[Islam Imamate]

Why is it your fucking business? It’s their money to invest.

It’s neither good or bad. Just because you’re an envious NPC, it doesn’t mean it’s “evil”

Why has this become an issue now? Why policies have created the conditions that have lead to massively inflated home prices?

Rentals - both long and short, are key pieces of the economy.

I know you dopes see landlords as evil villains. But apartments and home rentals are essential for many people. I rented for almost 15 years before buying my home.

In the end, people like you prefer these to be state run with pricing controls, completely ignoring how these models massively fail over and over.

If I'm a homeowner and I want to convert my garage into an STR for the added revenue stream a progressive would look at that new unit as being "taken off the market" without realizing it would've never existed in the first place had I not had the option to convert the garage into an STR. In the future I might sell my house and those two units might get rented out as a long term rental to two different households. That's one way to slowly add housing supply over time.

Which is a punishment because of bad monetary policy.

But its not either of those things. Monetary policy is not the issue, lack of supply due to onerous regulations is the core issue.

What’s funny about China buying up property in Canada? It’s a massive issue.

Its not. Its already being addressed and hasn't had an impact

Canada's move to keep foreigners out of its property market for two more years will do little to alleviate acute housing shortages, as non-residents were never the main driver fuelling property demand, economists and realtors say.

The surprise announcement on a Sunday morning last month to extend the ban that was first imposed in 2022 has been labelled by some as a political stunt to quell opposition pressure and show that the government is taking action on the property market, they added.

"The politics is more important than the impact on the economics," said Craig Alexander, president of Alexander Economic Views, an independent economic research organization.
Foreign ownership of houses in Canada has dropped to a single percentage point from 2-3% two years ago, economists and realtors estimate in the absence of any official data beyond 2021. The numbers hovered in the same range even before the pandemic, data from Statistics Canada showed.

Realtors also say foreigners scooped up prime and top-end residential units in the bustling localities of Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal. Hence, the extension of the ban will not increase supply for first-time home buyers, who account for close to half of all people buying houses, realtors say.

https://www.reuters.com/world/ameri...tate-buyers-labelled-political-not-2024-02-26

Remember when Canada realized it was a problem that Chinese investors were buying up apartments and single family homes all over the greater Vancouver area but then did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about domestic private equity firms buying up housing all over the country to jack up rental rates and housing prices?


It's not the small business landlords manipulating the whole market. It's the companies who gobble up housing like chicken feed.

In the US the vast majority of investors in real estate are small time investors with nine or fewer properties. Foreigners and institutional investors account for a small portion of overall investment and ownership. I bet its similar in Canada.

Just let people build houses and you'll have more housing, its as simple as that.

Don’t want to ban immigrants. There’s a good medium between zero immigrants and letting immigrates in unabated

But if there’s shortages, need to address them.

Canada and Cali go hand in hand

Cali tries to blames shortages on everything except the massive over-relegation to building housing.

Don’t know if Canada faces similar restrictions

Ever since we here in the Houston area started seeing a massive flow of people from both coasts, there’s been a huge construction boom. Every direction… except out into the Bay.

And the heated housing and rentals prices have cooled off significantly.

I mean, I even saw new housing here where they built bulkheads on Clear Lake to create more land for housing

Government needs to get out of the way in these situations and not be a huge part of the problem. Provide an environment to allow people to create solutions

And I don’t mean ignoring building codes… lol.

Yes, there’s shit landlords

And I know a few people with one or two rentals. And there’s more than few shir rentals

Down the street from me, I saw a rental that’ was practically destroyed and had to be gutted because of renters. It took almost 6 months to evict them

I don't think immigrants are really part of the issue and they are even part of the solution as they help bring housing costs down. That said I mostly agree with your take aside from that point. I've said before that some red states are absolutely outperforming blue states when it comes to really important initiatives like housing and even green energy and its because NIMBYs are weaker in red states due to less red tape. Texans aren't really gung ho about green energy but if they're still building a lot more solar and wind plants than Cali and its because its more economically feasible to do so absent the red tape. I can't know this but I think this is a not insignificant part of the reason the Democrats lost the 2024 elections even at the national level, bad governance at the local and state level by Democrats tarnished the wider brand.

 

[Sweater of AV]

Dude's massacred his country and created unprecedented housing issues, and this is what he comes up with?

 

[aerius]

The problem with landlords is inherent to landlords and not specific to large ones. If your BIL owns three houses in a well off area he is a wealthy landlord and I seriously do not want to hear that type of person claim "woe is me"

Idk want to derail the thread because addressing the very dumb progressive idea that cracking down on short term rentals(STRs) will fix the housing crisis is very important but if you're interested look into Georgism and specifically this article which summarizes the position. If you want an even shorter summary of the problem with landlords there's this satirical billboard from the early 20th century that succinctly makes the point

Spoiler

As for this cockamamie idea that the problem is because we have too many STRs, I wholly reject this. The issue in Canada is NIMBYism and specifically their terrible idea of Vancouverism whereby the only type of multifamily housing allowed are towering skyscrapers concentrated in the city center and the rest of the city's residential land is locked up in single family homes by NIMBYs who refuse to allow more housing to be built. Crack down on them by forcing these neighborhoods to allow more dense, affordable housing instead of governing the country in the interest of Boomer homeowners.

Housing supply is definitely a problem, we heavily incentivize single family homes and luxury condos because that's where the money is, no one wants to build affordable housing since you can't get rich from that. I'm on record as stating we need some kind of public or public/private system to build the equivalent of Commie blocks everywhere so that we have enough housing units.

But that's only the supply side of the equation. We also need to temper demand by taking the financialization out of housing and making homes a place to live rather than an investment or financial instrument. Our system as it exists encourages people to use their homes as ATMs, homes are flipped & HELOC'd all over the place, short term rentals are rampant, and all those zero down low interest mortgages makes it easy for people to take out massive loans to buy & flip homes. All this shit massively drives up the cost of housing, so to end it, we need to end the financialization as well. All mortgages are now 20% down, no more than 30% debt payment to income ratio, and secondary properties shall be taxed at higher rates with no tax benefits or rebates. This instantly kill all the parties buying up blocks of housing to rent out or flip since they'll have a much harder time coming up with the downpayment and dealing with the carrying costs.

More supply, crash the speculative demand, and housing comes back to its historical price of around 2-3 times the median annual income.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Housing supply is definitely a problem, we heavily incentivize single family homes and luxury condos because that's where the money is, no one wants to build affordable housing since you can't get rich from that. I'm on record as stating we need some kind of public or public/private system to build the equivalent of Commie blocks everywhere so that we have enough housing units.

No, those are the only homes that get built because of NIMBYs who only allow SFHs in their neighborhoods and the few times an apartment complex goes up it only makes sense if its luxury due to the added costs the delays and red tape imposes on construction.

Make it easier to build and you will see owners entering the affordable market niche.

But that's only the supply side of the equation. We also need to temper demand by taking the financialization out of housing and making homes a place to live rather than an investment or financial instrument. Our system as it exists encourages people to use their homes as ATMs, homes are flipped & HELOC'd all over the place, short term rentals are rampant, and all those zero down low interest mortgages makes it easy for people to take out massive loans to buy & flip homes. All this shit massively drives up the cost of housing, so to end it, we need to end the financialization as well. All mortgages are now 20% down, no more than 30% debt payment to income ratio, and secondary properties shall be taxed at higher rates with no tax benefits or rebates. This instantly kill all the parties buying up blocks of housing to rent out or flip since they'll have a much harder time coming up with the downpayment and dealing with the carrying costs.

More supply, crash the speculative demand, and housing comes back to its historical price of around 2-3 times the median annual income.

That would make home ownership far less affordable than it is now which necessarily means pushing people to rent or live at home longer. You're right that it would reduce demand and thus make housing affordable for those in the upper middle class who are overall well off but might struggle to buy a home purely because of the high level of demand and lack of supply but lower middle class folks will be priced out.

Not saying that's inherently bad but in the context of North America where home ownership is sacrosanct it would be electoral suicide to suggest that kind of policy.

 

[Rob Battisti]

Why is it your fucking business? It’s their money to invest.

It’s neither good or bad. Just because you’re an envious NPC, it doesn’t mean it’s “evil”

Why has this become an issue now? Why policies have created the conditions that have lead to massively inflated home prices?

Rentals - both long and short, are key pieces of the economy.

I know you dopes see landlords as evil villains. But apartments and home rentals are essential for many people. I rented for almost 15 years before buying my home.

In the end, people like you prefer these to be state run with pricing controls, completely ignoring how these models massively fail over and over.

Because individuals shouldn’t be able to rent, only mega corporations. Just like small businesses shouldn’t be open during Covid, only mega corporations.

 

[Rob Battisti]

Remember when Canada realized it was a problem that Chinese investors were buying up apartments and single family homes all over the greater Vancouver area but then did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about domestic private equity firms buying up housing all over the country to jack up rental rates and housing prices?


It's not the small business landlords manipulating the whole market. It's the companies who gobble up housing like chicken feed.

Yeah tell @Islam Imamate that

But it’s not either of those things. Monetary policy is not the issue, lack of supply due to onerous regulations is the core issue.

My brother, if you don’t think it’s is all a result of monetary policy, please think it through again.

Its not. Its already being addressed and hasn't had an impact

Wrong.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Because individuals shouldn’t be able to rent, only mega corporations.

See you're being facetious here but in a sense you do believe that. If someone in your neighborhood owned a single family home and wanted to convert it to a duplex to rent out the other unit you would be against that. In other words, you want to make it harder for individuals to rent out units.

My brother, if you don’t think it’s is all a result of monetary policy, please think it through again.

Why don't you walk me through it?

Wrong.

Can you see why it might be annoying on my end that I put the effort into finding a reputable source to back up my claim and quoted the relevant parts only to have you have waive it away without addressing any of the points made at all?

 

[Rob Battisti]

See you're being facetious here but in a sense you do believe that. If someone in your neighborhood owned a single family home and wanted to convert it to a duplex to rent out the other unit you would be against that. In other words, you want to make it harder for individuals to rent out units.

Just because I’m against ADUs in the suburbs has nothing to do with me being against individuals being able to be able to rent properties.

Please explain why someone can’t hold both of those positions as they are completely separate from one another.

Why don't you walk me through it?

As money debases, individuals need vehicles to ensure they don’t lose purchasing power. Inflation necessitates individuals park their fiat in stores of value, otherwise they will essentially be stolen from due to the monetary policy of their country.

One of the best stores of value is physical property. However, being that property is much more difficult to transfer back into fiat, buying additional properties allows you to both have your value stored AND create cash flow.

In US, our money debases by about 14% a year, in order to come out ahead of that, you need to be in assets that beat 14%. One of the best ways to do that is STRs or LTRs. Rental properties are one of the only and best ways to create generational wealth.

If money was harder, there would be less need to need to find vehicles such as STRs and LTRs to offset the debasement.

This is a monetary issue.

Can you see why it might be annoying on my end that I put the effort into finding a reputable source to back up my claim and quoted the relevant parts only to have you have waive it away without addressing any of the points made at all?

Yes. That was hacky of me. I apologize. I was at a store and was inconsiderate.

 

[aerius]

No, those are the only homes that get built because of NIMBYs who only allow SFHs in their neighborhoods and the few times an apartment complex goes up it only makes sense if its luxury due to the added costs the delays and red tape imposes on construction.

Make it easier to build and you will see owners entering the affordable market niche.

NIMBYism is a factor, but I'd argue the financial side is just as important if not more so.

That would make home ownership far less affordable than it is now which necessarily means pushing people to rent or live at home longer. You're right that it would reduce demand and thus make housing affordable for those in the upper middle class who are overall well off but might struggle to buy a home purely because of the high level of demand and lack of supply but lower middle class folks will be priced out.

Not saying that's inherently bad but in the context of North America where home ownership is sacrosanct it would be electoral suicide to suggest that kind of policy.

No, it wouldn't. The vast majority of housing is purchased with mortgages, limit the amount which can be loaned out and prices shall fall accordingly. Every housing bubble in history has been fueled by easy money and the widespread ability to take out massive loans at ridiculously low carrying costs, when every minimum wage worker can take out a $600k mortgage, guess what your average housing unit is going to cost? The easier you make it to take out a loan and the more you allow them to take out, the higher the prices go. It's happened in housing, it's happened in education, it's happened everywhere where cheap loans & easy money are available.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Just because I’m against ADUs in the suburbs has nothing to do with me being against individuals being able to be able to rent properties.

Please explain why someone can’t hold both of those positions as they are completely separate from one another.

You can hold both positions but just know you actively make it harder for people to create extra revenue streams through renovating their property.

As money debases, individuals need vehicles to ensure they don’t lose purchasing power. Inflation necessitates individuals park their fiat in stores of value, otherwise they will essentially be stolen from due to the monetary policy of their country.

One of the best stores of value is physical property. However, being that property is much more difficult to transfer back into fiat, buying additional properties allows you to both have your value stored AND create cash flow.

In US, our money debases by about 14% a year, in order to come out ahead of that, you need to be in assets that beat 14%. One of the best ways to do that is STRs or LTRs. Rental properties are one of the only and best ways to create generational wealth.

If money was harder, there would be less need to need to find vehicles such as STRs and LTRs to offset the debasement.

This is a monetary issue.

Whatever you have to tell yourself to avoid addressing the root issue just like ole Trudeau in the OP.