"Junior Dos Santos Was Never The Same After The Cain Trilogy"...

[NoContest]

This is a very reasonable opinion. He ate bombs from Stipe for 5 rounds and was fine. If anything, the Cain trilogy and the Stipe fight was what ruined him. Neglecting to mention Stipe is kinda disrespectful to him as well.

In what way did his confidence waver when he was fighting Miocic and trading bombs?

Exactly. JDS has wins over the UFC's 2 best HWs in their prime. After that loss Stipe steamrolled through the division. 3 wars like those would take their toll on anyone.

 

[Miokink026]

TS makes good points, no doubt. But....you can use numbers to make an alternative argument.

JDS won 10 straight, 16 of 18, before the final Cain fight. He was not fighting bums.

JDS lost 6 of his next 11 fights after the Cain fight. Two of these wins came against guys outside the top 10.

I like JDS, he is tough as hell, but you could argue that the final two Cain fights may have shook his confidence and maybe damaged his chin. Honestly, the last Cain fight was hard to watch; JDS took way too many shots.

Yes, that's reasonable but they're saying JDS was never the same after Cain which meant he started declining right after Cain won the third fight, not that JDS's decline was hastened. To those people I ask, how did he decline mentally and physically? Have they even seen the Stipe war? I really doubt they've even seen it. Can they even describe what happened?

Cain taking chunks out of his chin + USADA = a slower, less brutal, more fragile JDS.

You mean more fragile immediately after the Cain got his hand raised in the third fight? Do you know that he ate Stipe's best shots for over 5 rounds straight and was completely fine?

Cain beat the life out of jds and he was never the same again. I almost quit watching mma after that brutal extended and unessesary mauling. It made me sick to watch that fight as the towel should have been thrown in long before that fight ended. It was one of the saddest things ive ever seen.

JDS will suffer permanent long term damage from that fight alone. Im sure it took years off of his life too. It was just terrible.

This is exactly the type of comment I'm talking about. In what way was he "never the same again"? Do you know how he won against Stipe in their first fight?

Sorry to disagree, but JDS was not the same guy after Cain. Just watch his fight before and after. His reflexes just weren't has sharp anymore.

It has nothing with JDS being weak, he just took a shit load of damage.

Can you describe what happened in the first Stipe fight and in what way did JDS's reflexes decline? Don't just say "he became slower" or anything as vague as that, I can just as easily say he didn't so we should just describe the fight and what happened.

 

[Dionysian]

TS, in order to make a compelling argument you shouldn't just say "X is wrong." You have to say "X is wrong, because Y is right"

You told us that you don't think JDS declined after the last Cain fight. Ok. But in your OP you state clearly that you DO think JDS declined (is not in his prime form today). Ok... pretty much anyone agrees with that statement.

So if it wasn't after the trilogy... when exactly WAS this noticeable decline?

 

[norsuu]

is the jds going to fight in bellator?
i would love to see barnett, AO, and jds in bellator

 

[Deleted member 110072]

This is a very reasonable opinion. He ate bombs from Stipe for 5 rounds and was fine. If anything, the Cain trilogy and the Stipe fight was what ruined him. Neglecting to mention Stipe is kinda disrespectful to him as well.

Really the problem for Jnr I'd say was that when Cain exposed his weakness to being backed up he started to depend on his chin ALOT, the four fights around that time, two against Cain, Hunt and Stipe he took punishment in all of them.

That was never going to be sustainable long term, ironically he probably would have aged better if he had a chin like Reems and had lost all those fights.

 

[StoneWT]

The Cain beatings weren't your average beatings. They were hellacious and equivalent to being brutalized in a torture porn movie like making it through several traps in Saw without being killed.

 

[Miokink026]

Really the problem for Jnr I'd say was that when Cain exposed his weakness to being backed up he started to depend on his chin ALOT, the four fights around that time, two against Cain, Hunt and Stipe he took punishment in all of them.

That was never going to be sustainable long term, ironically he probably would have aged better if he had a chin like Reems and had lost all those fights.

That too. Miocic tried to copy the Cain gameplan to a tee in the first fight but JDS trained for Cain, Stipe trying to be Cain didn't work out so hot but everyone knew JDS's weakness now. Stipe also adapted in their rematch. He exploited the same weakness but instead of wrestling he boxed JDS along the fence.

 

[WHITE ANDERSON]

you're right because he was always the same fighter
daddy's punching bag GADOOSH go have fun with your fake wrestling

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

But he wasn’t

 

[Doughie99]

As a massive JDS fan, this is the most annoying popular opinion. So many people regurgitate this line and have zero idea what they're taking about. They see clips of the fights and the aftermath then look at his record and immediately assume JDS fell off. This is extremely disrespectful and dead wrong.

Tony Ferguson accumulated damage for over a decade before the war with Justin, which was the final straw. Chuck was an iron chinned monster spanning entire eras before the accumulated damage from multiple wars finally caught up with him. JDS isn't some fragile little boy who had a accident and can't play ball anymore. He was relatively unscathed before the Cain wars and you think he could go from fresh fighter to past his prime just like that? How weak do you think he is?

Good thing we can easily see that this belief is completely wrong. Immediately after the second Cain fight he went to war with Stipe and his cardio, his speed, his power, his durability... he looked truly amazing there against a very dangerous opponent.

As for his record, Junior is a dynamic, heavy handed fencing type boxer with great grappling and takedown defense. Before the Cain trilogy his best opponents were

• old Cro Cop
• still green in striking Werdum
• powerful but slow Roy Nelson
• Gonzaga
• the always dangerous Shane Carwin
• BJJ specialist Frank Mir

Not saying they're not good wins. Werdum and Mir were dangerous but JDS's elite grappling defense was good enough to keep it on the feet. They are all good wins and dangerous men but JDS is JDS; he was just better than them or his abilities countered their styles.

After Cain, who did he lose to?

• Alistair Overeem
• Champion Stipe Miocic

These days it's clear he's a shadow of the man he used to be, but his decline did NOT start immediately after Cain had his hand raised in their third fight. What's more, although JDS is far weaker now than he used to be he's still a top 15 UFC HW who only lost to the best. Even now he has a chance of becoming champion in any organization outside the UFC. Unless of course, the four straight losses deteriorated his chin too much but we don't know that.

• ONE: Arjan Bhullar. JDS destroys him.
• Bellator: Valentin Moldavski: great fight but IMO JDS is better on the feet and Moldavski wouldn't be able to get it to the ground
• PFL: Philipe Lins won one. If JDS enters, he'd be a huge favorite.

I agree Dos Santos used to be great, and agree he declined a lot, and became chinny.

I think on the whole, Dos Santos AND Alistair Overeem fell victim (by being cut) to the UFC's recent policy of trying quite hard to CLEAR their roster of older fighters who get paid a LOT (UFC Heavyweights tend to get paid a lot : 500k to 800k seems to be about the rate for these people) and hire in newer, younger, cheaper fighters in their place.
This policy I think is DRIVEN by the owners IMG/WME who I believe have given Dana White clear instructions on profit targets per annum and these profit targets mean that Dana and his team have been obliged to look at the roster and slowly cut the "old guard" of 'expensive' fighters to reduce their fighter-payout costs.
That's what I think has been happening and obviously Dos Santos's 4 losses in a row (all to very good opponents) was the end for him.

 

[Deleted member 510671]

USADA happened. Nothing else. He fought very well against Stipe and Hunt post-Cain. He immediately deteriorated post USADA, starting with the embarrassing Overeem fight where he was now a completely different fighter.

Go look at fighter portraits of him on gettyimages. Go to some old dates in fight weeks. Then more recent ones(or just the ones after USADA). He changed immensely, transformation was almost Vitor-like. It's not rocket science what happened.

 

[Miokink026]

The Cain beatings weren't your average beatings. They were hellacious and equivalent to being brutalized in a torture porn movie like making it through several traps in Saw without being killed.

Then it's a relief JDS isn't an average human and went on to have an absolute war with Stipe where he traded bombs for five rounds, showing his cardio, power, chin and heart were still as tough as ever.

 

[Raymundo Alvarado Guevara]

Yes

 

[Miokink026]

TS, in order to make a compelling argument you shouldn't just say "X is wrong." You have to say "X is wrong, because Y is right"

You told us that you don't think JDS declined after the last Cain fight. Ok. But in your OP you state clearly that you DO think JDS declined (is not in his prime form today). Ok... pretty much anyone agrees with that statement.

So if it wasn't after the trilogy... when exactly WAS this noticeable decline?

That's... that's not even remotely how it works.
It's like saying I have to prove who murdered X because proving Y didn't commit the crime isn't enough to prove... Y didn't commit the crime. That makes absolutely no sense.

JDS declined, like everyone does, through a combination of being in many wars, age and being figured out and didn't change. I have no idea why you want me to tell you exactly why when where and how JDS declined when the point is the idea that "JDS was never the same after the Cain trilogy" or "JDS was weaker after the Cain fights" is wrong since looked as good as ever in the first Stipe fight which was right after the trilogy.

 

[Reapzz]

Nah bruh. He immediately looked like a changed man after the final fights vs Cain. Cain put it on him. Shit was brutal...

 

[Miokink026]

Nah bruh. He immediately looked like a changed man after the final fights vs Cain. Cain put it on him. Shit was brutal...

Sir, can you perhaps describe how the fight immediately after the third Cain fight went and in what aspect of the fight did JDS show to you that he declined in whatever way?

Let's see if you're simply regurgitating opinions or came to that conclusion yourself through observation.

 

[Deleted member 577981]

Yes, that's reasonable but they're saying JDS was never the same after Cain which meant he started declining right after Cain won the third fight, not that JDS's decline was hastened. To those people I ask, how did he decline mentally and physically? Have they even seen the Stipe war? I really doubt they've even seen it. Can they even describe what happened?


You mean more fragile immediately after the Cain got his hand raised in the third fight? Do you know that he ate Stipe's best shots for over 5 rounds straight and was completely fine?


This is exactly the type of comment I'm talking about. In what way was he "never the same again"? Do you know how he won against Stipe in their first fight?



Can you describe what happened in the first Stipe fight and in what way did JDS's reflexes decline? Don't just say "he became slower" or anything as vague as that, I can just as easily say he didn't so we should just describe the fight and what happened.

I know what I saw and I saw a person having his life beaten from his body. And he never looked the same again to me and I don't just mean in his fights I mean looking at his face, he just looks different and has from that fight forward.

And it was a terrible fight to witness and and it made me question my involvement in mixed martial arts. I'm sure that it took years off of his life and it was very sad to see.

Frankly after watching that fight I find it absurd that anybody could say it didn't damage JDS.

 

[Miokink026]

I know what I saw and I saw a person having his life beaten from his body. And he never looked the same again to me and I don't just mean in his fights I mean looking at his face, he just looks different and has from that fight forward.

And it was a terrible fight to witness and and it made me question my involvement in mixed martial arts. I'm sure that it took years off of his life and it was very sad to see.

Frankly after watching that fight I find it absurd that anybody could say it didn't damage JDS.

Sir, can you perhaps describe how the fight immediately after the third Cain fight went and in what aspect of the fight did JDS show to you that he declined in whatever way?

Let's see if you're simply regurgitating opinions or came to that conclusion yourself through observation.

 

[Leviticus]

It really was the absolute beating of a lifetime - like being in a car crash.

 

[Deleted member 577981]

Sir, can you perhaps describe how the fight immediately after the third Cain fight went and in what aspect of the fight did JDS show to you that he declined in whatever way?

Let's see if you're simply regurgitating opinions or came to that conclusion yourself through observation.

I'm not even thinking about his performance as a fighter although obviously hes not the same fighter he once was. It declined him as a human being and took time off of his life. nobody can sustain that kind of brain injury without being damaged.

That was one of the most unnecessary prolonged and brutal beat down I've ever seen it should have never happened somebody should have thrown in the towel.