"Junior Dos Santos Was Never The Same After The Cain Trilogy"...

[Miokink026]

I'm not even thinking about his performance as a fighter although obviously hes not the same fighter he once was. It declined him as a human being and took time off of his life. nobody can sustain that kind of brain injury without being damaged.

That was one of the most unnecessary prolonged and brutal beat down I've ever seen it should have never happened somebody should have thrown in the towel.

Sir, the entire point of this is evaluating JDS's performance as a fighter immediately after Cain won the trilogy so again, can you perhaps describe how the fight immediately after the third Cain fight went and in what aspect of the fight did JDS show to you that he declined in whatever way?

 

[Deleted member 110072]

That too. Miocic tried to copy the Cain gameplan to a tee in the first fight but JDS trained for Cain, Stipe trying to be Cain didn't work out so hot but everyone knew JDS's weakness now. Stipe also adapted in their rematch. He exploited the same weakness but instead of wrestling he boxed JDS along the fence.

He mostly boxed in the first fight as well, that was the main difference compared to Cain who mixed in more wrestling and clinching which IMHO gave him time to rest were as Stipe started to tire after the first couple of rounds.

In the rematch JDS just didnt have the chin to take that kind of punishment anymore,

 

[Miokink026]

He mostly boxed in the first fight as well, that was the main different compared to Cain who mixed in more wrestling and clinching which IMHO gave him time to rest were as Stipe started to tire after the first couple of rounds.

In the rematch JDS just didnt have the chin to take that kind of punishment anymore,

Exactly. The type of punishment JDS took without flinching in the first fight rocked JDS in the second. The Cain wars and first Stipe fight massively shortened his prime and the UFC did him no favors with his parting matchups.

If only the UFC weren't so selfish as to squeeze him dry and destroy his stock they could've had JDS lose to Ngannou and Blaydes and or even Bigi Boy, then gave him Shamil or Alexey then cut him. This would give JDS a good looking record and more power in negotiations while establishing he's not as good as their top fighters. If JDS went on to win in other organizations it would've made Ngannou and Blaydes look even better but now it just looks like the four men beat a fossil around.

Good job UFC, you overdid it and turned impressive wins into nothing, just to decrease JDS's stock as a fighter. Idiots.

 

[mjfan23]

He beat Stipe after

 

[pride_rules]

We all know the real reason for decline...

He went from this wife
View attachment 885766
To this one View attachment 885767

Probably spent a lot more time at the gym during the first marriage.

i get my wife back and my belt back

 

[Shoguns Prodigy**]

He was definitely effected by the trilogy heavy. Man was not the same fighter. He never turtled in a fight until Cain after that it basically became his habit to turtle after taking a big shot.

 

[xHeadx]

I was there live for 1 & 3. Cain took his soul by the 3rd. TLDR that wall of text too. Fucking rookies.

 

[Azor]

After the 2nd fight, I would say that JDS was fine and in fact wanting to avenge his loss even more. The way he took out Mark Hunt? Man I will never forget that shit, merciless.

I respect JDS, he wanted that 3rd fight more than anything, and unfortunately for him, Cain gave it to him.

 

[Miokink026]

I was there live for 1 & 3. Cain took his soul by the 3rd. TLDR that wall of text too. Fucking rookies.

Okay sir, instead of a wall of txt here's a simple one: can you perhaps describe how the fight immediately after the third Cain fight went and in what aspect of the fight did JDS show to you that he declined in whatever way?
Let's see if you're simply regurgitating opinions or came to that conclusion yourself through observation.

 

[mkt]

Before the Cain trilogy his best opponents were

• old Cro Cop
• still green in striking Werdum
• powerful but slow Roy Nelson
• Gonzaga
• the always dangerous Shane Carwin
• BJJ specialist Frank Mir

You can play this game with any fighter. Fedor's best wins were Cro-Cop and Big Nog, both of whom declined in world-record time as soon as they signed a UFC contract in their early 30s. Everyone else he beat was old/one-dimensional (Coleman), a LHW/MW, a freak show or an ex-UFC fighter past their best days (Sylvia).

Prime JDS was very good. Cain was a bad match-up for him, though. I can see prime JDS holding the HW belt much longer in other UFC HW eras.

 

[shh]

USADA fucked him, Cain fucked him, age fucked him. All of these things is why he declined so bad.

 

[Qays Stetkevich]

IMO OP has way, way oversanalyzed something quite simple.

JDS took BRUTAL beatings, got *multiple concussions/KOS*, and acquired (understandably) a psychological block, i.e., trigger-shyness and a lack of confidence. These things seem fairly obvious post-trilogy. Rashad suffered similarly after Machida took his soul (even though his chin held up better than JDS).

 

[mkt]

The funny thing is, after the 3rd JDS fight, Cain lost to Werdum, beat Browne, then lost to Ngannou and that's it. Just 3 fights total going 1-2. Meanwhile, JDS fought another 11 times and picked up wins over Stipe, Lewis, Rothwell and Tuivasa.

Cain is one of those athletes who was very injury-prone. That might have affected his mental game as well. JDS was quite durable (especially considering the Cain beatings) but had a more typical slow, grinding decline. However, Cain is less likely to suffer CTE than guys like JDS, Overeem, Hunt, Nelson, etc. who suffered repeated beatings and/or KOs over the years.

 

[mkt]

IMO OP has way, way oversanalyzed something quite simple.

JDS took BRUTAL beatings, got *multiple concussions/KOS*, and acquired (understandably) a psychological block, i.e., trigger-shyness and a lack of confidence. These things seem fairly obvious post-trilogy. Rashad suffered similarly after Machida took his soul (even though his chin held up better than JDS).

As a Machida fan, I'd like for him to get credit for taking Rashad's soul, but I'm not sure about that. Rashad looked very good a few years later when he dominated Phil Davis and put up a pretty good fight with Jones. In fact, he was the first title challenger to go 5 rounds with Jones. He stopped an 8-win finishing streak that Jones had (and yes, I'm counting Jones "loss" to Hamill as one of his finishes).

 

[Simple Southerner]

 

[Aberlour]

Yes, that's reasonable but they're saying JDS was never the same after Cain which meant he started declining right after Cain won the third fight, not that JDS's decline was hastened. To those people I ask, how did he decline mentally and physically? Have they even seen the Stipe war? I really doubt they've even seen it. Can they even describe what happened?


You mean more fragile immediately after the Cain got his hand raised in the third fight? Do you know that he ate Stipe's best shots for over 5 rounds straight and was completely fine?


This is exactly the type of comment I'm talking about. In what way was he "never the same again"? Do you know how he won against Stipe in their first fight?



Can you describe what happened in the first Stipe fight and in what way did JDS's reflexes decline? Don't just say "he became slower" or anything as vague as that, I can just as easily say he didn't so we should just describe the fight and what happened.

No I mean what my comment said, USADA came in 2015, so after the Stipe fight you mentioned. The damage Cain did to him + USADA = JDS fighting like a shell of his former self.

 

[daniel san]

You physically can't be the same after taking those beatings he took from Cain. Did he become a chinny can after the Cain fights? No, of course not, but he definitely was not the same even though it's impossible to prove it. Also not sure if Iceman comparison makes sense - he got "chinny" when he started fighting better strikers. Every punch that he took would have knocked out most fighters at LHW except in his most recent fight against Ortiz.

 

[Qays Stetkevich]

As a Machida fan, I'd like for him to get credit for taking Rashad's soul, but I'm not sure about that. Rashad looked very good a few years later when he dominated Phil Davis and put up a pretty good fight with Jones. In fact, he was the first title challenger to go 5 rounds with Jones. He stopped an 8-win finishing streak that Jones had (and yes, I'm counting Jones "loss" to Hamill as one of his finishes).

All true, but I still hold that during that time (when, admittedly, Rashad wasn't bad), he WAS gun-shy, and that became suddenly apparent after his Machida loss. It's obviously not all-or-nothing, but one reason he (may have) survived Jones for 5 rounds was because....he took almost no chances in the striking department. I don't blame him or any fighter that happens to, Rashad had aggression and KO power, and then it got spooked out of him. Like you say, he was elite for years to come, but never as exciting (..which, again, may have helped with him not getting KOd). As opposed to JDS, who became gun-shy but *also* acquired a rubber-chin (and worse striking defense?)

 

[textwarrior]

As a massive JDS fan, this is the most annoying popular opinion. So many people regurgitate this line and have zero idea what they're taking about. They see clips of the fights and the aftermath then look at his record and immediately assume JDS fell off. This is extremely disrespectful and dead wrong.

Tony Ferguson accumulated damage for over a decade before the war with Justin, which was the final straw. Chuck was an iron chinned monster spanning entire eras before the accumulated damage from multiple wars finally caught up with him. JDS isn't some fragile little boy who had a accident and can't play ball anymore. He was relatively unscathed before the Cain wars and you think he could go from fresh fighter to past his prime just like that? How weak do you think he is?

Good thing we can easily see that this belief is completely wrong. Immediately after the second Cain fight he went to war with Stipe and his cardio, his speed, his power, his durability... he looked truly amazing there against a very dangerous opponent.

As for his record, Junior is a dynamic, heavy handed fencing type boxer with great grappling and takedown defense. Before the Cain trilogy his best opponents were

• old Cro Cop
• still green in striking Werdum
• powerful but slow Roy Nelson
• Gonzaga
• the always dangerous Shane Carwin
• BJJ specialist Frank Mir

Not saying they're not good wins. Werdum and Mir were dangerous but JDS's elite grappling defense was good enough to keep it on the feet. They are all good wins and dangerous men but JDS is JDS; he was just better than them or his abilities countered their styles.

After Cain, who did he lose to?

• Alistair Overeem
• Champion Stipe Miocic

These days it's clear he's a shadow of the man he used to be, but his decline did NOT start immediately after Cain had his hand raised in their third fight. What's more, although JDS is far weaker now than he used to be he's still a top 15 UFC HW who only lost to the best. Even now he has a chance of becoming champion in any organization outside the UFC. Unless of course, the four straight losses deteriorated his chin too much but we don't know that.

• ONE: Arjan Bhullar. JDS destroys him.
• Bellator: Valentin Moldavski: great fight but IMO JDS is better on the feet and Moldavski wouldn't be able to get it to the ground
• PFL: Philipe Lins won one. If JDS enters, he'd be a huge favorite.

It was like one day his precise striking left and never came back. It was weird but Canelo and Khabib said once you take time off it never comes back so you have to constantly work to keep your prime.

 

[NenadRS]

TS good points, it is more complex than just Cain fights, but it did have a big role, we will never know, but without those two wars, maybe he would have kept going strong longer (speed, chin wise). Cain too.

Those two fights were some of the toughest fights in the UFC, for both fighters, they took a lot of damage. So many punches were absorbed, both of them had crazy chins at the time. It was too much for both of them.