"Junior Dos Santos Was Never The Same After The Cain Trilogy"...

[JustBleed69]

Nah Cain isn't overrated. He isn't a top 5 HW GOAT for sure like many people say he is, but 2 Title wins + 2 Defences + destroying JDS/Bigfoot twice and slapping Brock isn't overrated. I agree his resume isn't impressive as compared to JDS though but overrated is a far stretch. Still comfortably a top 10 HW ever.

You're contradicting yourself. You're saying he's not overrated, but he's not even close to GOAT HW.
Tons of people have him top 2-3 GOAT Heavyweights.
That's overrated.

 

[TerrorTimmy]

Sir, can you perhaps describe how the fight immediately after the third Cain fight went and in what aspect of the fight did JDS show to you that he declined in whatever way?

Let's see how your "eyes" hold up against real facts.

JDS went from leveling people quickly to winning a competitive decision over a green Stipe, who he should have steamrolled.

What's your next question? Is it about how you think being mauled by a 245 pound high level athlete for 50+ minutes doesn't have any detrimental effect on your health? Because you're just saying "he won his next fight so he was actually fine and then started losing and looking like shit for absolutely no reason immediately after that" over and over again and not really proving any point other than that JDS won his next fight. That's not a point. That's you looking at Wikipedia and deciding you know everything.

 

[sss133]

People also forget that first Stipe fight was pretty brutal. JDS probably went through a motivation issue and a similar Rory MacDonald situation. Each time he started taking damage seemed like he was hesitant due to knowing the recovery would suck.

Then there’s the general wear and tear. He definitely wasn’t as crisp in his later fights

 

[JonJonesNeedle]

This game is as much mental as it is physical.

Getting beaten round after round after round in 2 fights against the same guy will mentally hurt you. Especially when that guy was someone you beat in about a minute the first time you fought him.
And of course the chin damage.

 

[Miokink026]

JDS went from leveling people quickly to winning a competitive decision over a green Stipe, who he should have steamrolled.

What's your next question? Is it about how you think being mauled by a 245 pound high level athlete for 50+ minutes doesn't have any detrimental effect on your health? Because you're just saying "he won his next fight so he was actually fine and then started losing and looking like shit for absolutely no reason immediately after that" over and over again and not really proving any point other than that JDS won his next fight. That's not a point. That's you looking at Wikipedia and deciding you know everything.

Nice try dodging the question sir, too bad it didn't work.

Sir, can you perhaps describe how the fight immediately after the third Cain fight went and in what aspect of the fight did JDS show to you that he declined in whatever way? This isn't a trick question.

 

[Cooliox]

Noob TS, please watch fights first... then comment

 

[HHJ]

"bla bla bla the damage he took against cain had no effect whatsoever,same w ferguson and Justin"

ACTUALLY IT DID

 

[HHJ]

This is some goofy posting right here

Yes,TS one beating can make all the difference,let alone two. This is not about weakness,its about not being invincible.

 

[abject]

JDS after the cain beatdown went on to defeat prime stipe. Prime Cain would beat prime Stipe into a living death. This much is certain.

 

[RockyLockridge]

As a massive JDS fan, this is the most annoying popular opinion. So many people regurgitate this line and have zero idea what they're taking about. They see clips of the fights and the aftermath then look at his record and immediately assume JDS fell off. This is extremely disrespectful and dead wrong.

Tony Ferguson accumulated damage for over a decade before the war with Justin, which was the final straw. Chuck was an iron chinned monster spanning entire eras before the accumulated damage from multiple wars finally caught up with him. JDS isn't some fragile little boy who had a accident and can't play ball anymore. He was relatively unscathed before the Cain wars and you think he could go from fresh fighter to past his prime just like that? How weak do you think he is?

god what an emotional and stupid post.

ANYWAYS

people say that because he is a HEAVY WEIGHT not a LIGHT WEIGHT like Tony Ferguson

Also in TWO fights with CAIN VELASQUEZ he absorbed a total 487 strikes. Almost 200 of them signifcant strikes to the head.

That is a lot. especially for a hw to absorb in two fights. you say he was unscathed for his career at that point, but that literally caught up with him in two fights.

 

[RockyLockridge]

His wins over Bigfoot, Travis Browne, and JDS are totally GOAT worthy!

He massacred them though. he also beat cheick, lesnar and bignog

You're a bit off base with this one though man, cain pretty much beats any ufc HW ever, he's an absolute cardio freak, there is no hw that can output like cain. he is STILL number 3 in most significant strikes landed as a hw. only behind arolovski (who has had 3x more fights than him) and stipe, who has been in almost twice as many 25 minuite fights than cain and still neither are that far ahead of cain. He was different, we Wont see another HW like cain for a long time.|


I wont call him the goat hw or anything silly like that, He wasn't around for long enough. he h ad too many injuries unfortunately. But personally i wil say i believe he is the BEST MMA fighter of all time. I would pick prime cain velasquez against anyone. Jones, Fedor, Ngannou anyone.

 

[RockyLockridge]

Nice try dodging the question sir, too bad it didn't work.

Sir, can you perhaps describe how the fight immediately after the third Cain fight went and in what aspect of the fight did JDS show to you that he declined in whatever way? This isn't a trick question.

You've been told multiple times, he was less agressive and willing to engage or take the center of the octogon, he was much less likey to move forward and strike and also after the stipe fight he took enough damage to really cap him off. after than he was even less willing to engage. all of this has been said on the first page of this close to 100 post thread already.

 

[HHJ]

JDS after the cain beatdown went on to defeat prime stipe. Prime Cain would beat prime Stipe into a living death. This much is certain.

From what i recall JDS didnt look that great in that fight,and managed to land some bomb on stipe that shut him down for the rest of the fight,and saved JDS' ass

 

[Miokink026]

You've been told multiple times, he was less agressive and willing to engage or take the center of the octogon, he was much less likey to move forward and strike and also after the stipe fight he took enough damage to really cap him off. after than he was even less willing to engage. all of this has been said on the first page of this close to 100 post thread already.

So you can't describe the fight with your own words and only tried checking other people's opinions hoping they are right? Bless your heart...

Do you know why JDS didn't take the center stage? Because that's his style's weakness. When you pressure him, he gives ground and backs up in a straight line. Even when he attacks he moves on a line. I've already addressed that in the first every comment here. That's not "JDS has never been the same". That's the exact opposite you silly goose.

Anything else? If JDS was "never the same", I'm assuming you'd think his chin/power/speed/reflexes/cardio/skills diminished. You tried to argue that he was less aggressive in the Stipe fight but failed. Would you like to try again?

REMEMBER:
I never claimed he didn't diminish. I am merely saying anyone who thinks JDS immediately looked different immediately after Cain won the third fight is dumb since he looked just as good in the Stipe fight afterwards. I'm not saying JDS's prime wasn't vastly shortened by the trilogy, I'm not talking about after the Stipe fight since that wouldn't be immediately after, I'm talking about immediately after the Cain trilogy. The belief that Cain could beat a fresh relatively unscathed hasn't even hit his prime yet JDS into a lesser fighter, doing more damage than decades of wear and tear is ridiculous.

 

[NDiaz209]

I'd love to see how JDS fares in Bellator.

 

[Richard Fannin]

I think one of the reasons people now believe that Cain was the end of prime JDS, was the Ubereem loss.

When Alistair was on a roll, KOing everyone in kickboxing and MMA, the consensus on Sherdog was that the only heavyweight in the UFC that would beat him 10 times out of 10 was Junior Dos Santos.

"JDS is waaay too technical a striker, and he's a big and strong guy, Ubereem won't be able to bully him against the cage, he wouldn't be able to submit him, plus AO has a weak chin and JDS' boxing is as crisp as they come at HW, he would KTFO of Overeem in MMA, he's simply a nightmare match-up for him."

So when they fought (holy shit, already 6 years ago??) and Overeem ran through Junior, that belief was shattered and most fans never really looked at JDS the same way IMHO


Seriously, read some old threads about this match-up, it's like today with, let's say N'Gannou/Gane vs Jon Jones.
The consensus is that both these guys would beat Jones, and that N'Gannou in particular is a nightmare match-up and would knock him out 9 times out of 10.

And for Ubereem/JDS, that was a belief that lasted for years, that he was the guy to stop AO in his tracks.

 

[RockyLockridge]

So you can't describe the fight with your own words and only tried checking other people's opinions hoping they are right? Bless your heart...

Do you know why JDS didn't take the center stage? Because that's his style's weakness. When you pressure him, he gives ground and backs up in a straight line. Even when he attacks he moves on a line. I've already addressed that in the first every comment here. That's not "JDS has never been the same". That's the exact opposite you silly goose.

Anything else? If JDS was "never the same", I'm assuming you'd think his chin/power/speed/reflexes/cardio/skills diminished. You tried to argue that he was less aggressive in the Stipe fight but failed. Would you like to try again?

REMEMBER:
I never claimed he didn't diminish. I am merely saying anyone who thinks JDS immediately looked different immediately after Cain won the third fight is dumb since he looked just as good in the Stipe fight afterwards. I'm not saying JDS's prime wasn't vastly shortened by the trilogy, I'm not talking about after the Stipe fight since that wouldn't be immediately after, I'm talking about immediately after the Cain trilogy. The belief that Cain could beat a fresh relatively unscathed hasn't even hit his prime yet JDS into a lesser fighter, doing more damage than decades of wear and tear is ridiculous.

I already explained it to you. Also i summarized the first 20 post for you and I never read this post only the first 20 words of it. I also never read your op post. Just the first 2 sentences

 

[BLIND]

glosssing over the fact that he looked not great in most wins after that as well. Lewis, Ivanov, Ngannou, Tuivasa, etc he looked unbalanced, and like he could get put away at any moment. His confidence got shot i think. He started literally turning and running waaaayyyy more. Before that i think the first Stipe fight was the only time i saw him do that

 

[Miokink026]

I already explained it to you. Also i summarized the first 20 post for you and I never read this post only the first 20 words of it. I also never read your op post. Just the first 2 sentences

Here are the main points from the conversation:

• You: he was less agressive and willing to engage or take the center of the octogon
• Me: This is nothing new and does nothing to prove "JDS was never the same". In fact, this is simply stating what he always do and it's been his weakness from day 1.

So I will ignore this attempt at trying to make it seem like I didn't destroy your little explanation and ask again, do you have any proof that JDS looked weaker immediately after the Cain trilogy?

 

[kenetics]

I strongly disagree.
Not everyone responds to damage the same way. One fighter might be okay going through wars over and over again and others might be toast after one tough beating.

I also kind of think you're missing the argument of the initial claim; it's not that he magically left his prime in the sense that he lost his attributes, it's more of a psychological thing.
The beating was so bad on him 2xs in a row that it mentally fucked him up.
I don't have the stats on hand to back this up, but purely from the eye test and his up and down record JDS went from being a super confident striker to being much more tentative.
That's one of the tell-tale signs of a fighter being past it, having an unwillingness to throw.

He did have some good wins after Cain , like Mark Hunt and Derrick Lewis, but he was very clearly more aggressive and accurate pre-Cain.

Side Tangent: Cain is the most overrated fighter in the UFCs history. His resumé is nothing spectacular at all and it's harious to me when people include him in HW GOAT conversations.

No HW has had Cains cardio until this day. Cain was also one of the few HW that could throw kicks from different angles and relentless grappler.

His skill carry on until this day for current HW if he was actually healthy.