Judo techniques: Why don't they beat wrestlers?

[Kaffe]

GSP is what he wants to be, he is a wrestler/ Jiu-jitsu fighter that's what he is announced as. Its up to what you want to be called really. As long as it checks out.

When the entire thread discusion has been based around the idea that having a wrestling background before doing MMA is an indicator of success, it is kind of weird to refer to him as a wrestler, no?

But no matter. Still a moot point considering this is not about individuals. Personally I agree that wrestling is a better base for MMA than judo as long as you are able to pick up submissions fairly well.

 

[Crossface9]

In that case all grappling is a type of wrestling, even judo, sambo and BJJ.

Different rules, different results.

Not true at all, Catch is just as much wrestling as folkstyle. No-gi is a combination of everything.

 

[Q mystic]

Depends on your skillset, a wrestler is not in his natural enviroment when inside someones guard, his skill is not necesarily better than that of a freestyle wrestler and lower than that of a judoka or samboist of the bat.

Stop acting like somehow you can teach a wrestler in 2 months to fight and win at the best of MMA, wrestler that succeed are because they took the striking and groundwork to a high level, not only wrestling.

In fact pure wrestler tend to suck as seen in PRIDE.

I didn't mean that. I should have looked at the context of your messages prior.:icon_lol:

I was thinking mma vs mma but yeah, wrestlers typically get subbed pretty fast w/o crosstraining.

 

[Rod1]

Not true at all, Catch is just as much wrestling as folkstyle. No-gi is a combination of everything.

FILA disagrees.

 

[Crossface9]

I think there is such a thing as submission wrestling without pins, but it should be two wrestlers, not guard pullers or butt scooters. It has to be wrestling based not BJJ based. Like Combat Wrestling.

 

[Uchi Mata]

I think there is such a thing as submission wrestling without pins, but it should be two wrestlers, not guard pullers or butt scooters. It has to be wrestling based not BJJ based. Like Combat Wrestling.

Take away pins, add submissions, and the guard becomes essential. If you don't care about being on your back, why would you not play guard if taken down?

 

[Q mystic]

Fact is that if you were to take 50 top U.S. wrestlers and 50 top Russian judoka (to keep training and genetic levels even) right off the mat and stuck them in the cage, the judoka would smoke 'em.

Certainly that's gotta be in agreement. My judoka wrestler coaches have all agreed (at differing times) and some were even in both, at high levels.

So if wrestling is greater for mma, how does learning mma benefit a wrestler more than a judoka? I mean, it's about time & learning for these elite, right. When the wrestler is learning the sub game, the judoka is developing shot defence right? Who is going to learn quicker?

The American wrestler is a physical monster, so is the Russian judoka, tho. It just so happens that the UFC is based in America. The best MMA training, by FAR, is in America.

Elite judo, freestyle and folk are soo similar that in a fight, it isn't going to make a diff after your training. Except, where and who you train with. Primarily wrestlers in America.

That said, you would prolly score more favor from girls with judo.

Also, the fuel systems of wrestling seem better for UFC than the judo fuel system does. That's a big part of rules..as much a plus 1 for wrestling, of course.. lol

 

[Rod1]

Fact is that if you were to take 50 top U.S. wrestlers and 50 top Russian judoka (to keep training and genetic levels even) right off the mat and stuck them in the cage, the judoka would smoke 'em.

Certainly that's gotta be in agreement. My judoka wrestler coaches have all agreed (at differing times) and some were even in both, at high levels.

So if wrestling is greater for mma, how does learning mma benefit a wrestler more than a judoka? I mean, it's about time & learning for these elite, right. When the wrestler is learning the sub game, the judoka is developing shot defence right? Who is going to learn quicker?

The American wrestler is a physical monster, so is the Russian judoka, tho. It just so happens that the UFC is based in America. The best MMA training, by FAR, is in America.

Elite judo, freestyle and folk are soo similar that in a fight, it isn't going to make a diff after your training. Except, where and who you train with. Primarily wrestlers in America.

That said, you would prolly score more favor from girls with judo.

Also, the fuel systems of wrestling seem better for UFC than the judo fuel system does. That's a big part of rules..as much a plus 1 for wrestling, of course.. lol

I think its just the facts that the Russians are just good at combat sports.

I mean look at Nurmagomedov, he completely tooled Healy on the wrestling department and Healy was a div 2 wrestler, its not like Nurmagomedov was competing in anything his father was a judo/sambo/wrestling guy but Nurmagomedov biography doesnt mentions anything about him actually competing at anything.

Fedor could had been much more if he had come to America after PRIDE ended, he was a beast and he was basically in the army until 1997 then competed in judo 3 years and then he was into MMA.

 

[Kaffe]

Nurmagomedov is a world champion in Combat Sambo with a black belt in judo on the side for shits and giggles, Rod1.

 

[Q mystic]

I think its just the facts that the Russians are just good at combat sports.

I mean look at Nurmagomedov, he completely tooled Healy on the wrestling department and Healy was a div 2 wrestler, its not like Nurmagomedov was competing in anything his father was a judo/sambo/wrestling guy but Nurmagomedov biography doesnt mentions anything about him actually competing at anything.

Fedor could had been much more if he had come to America after PRIDE ended, he was a beast and he was basically in the army until 1997 then competed in judo 3 years and then he was into MMA.

I agree.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2jjnkNP6ik

for sure, I think their judoka will beat their wrestlers, tho.

 

[Rod1]

Nurmagomedov is a world champion in Combat Sambo with a black belt in judo on the side for shits and giggles, Rod1.

Really? info on him is pretty scarce or in russian, he looks like a god damn beast.

 

[Rod1]

I agree.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2jjnkNP6ik

for sure, I think their judoka will beat their wrestlers, tho.

Yes, it also seems in all street fighting videos that all russians know how to fight, except when they are drunk on vodka.

 

[Q mystic]

Yes, it also seems in all street fighting videos that all russians know how to fight, except when they are drunk on vodka.

I heavily beat down and then saved a Russian guy before in StarCraft. He might have ben drunk, tho. He didn't type worth shiot.

 

[Bluesbreaker]

GSP is what he wants to be, he is a wrestler/ Jiu-jitsu fighter that's what he is announced as. Its up to what you want to be called really. As long as it checks out.

If GSP is a wrestler/jiu jitsu fighter, then so is everyone else, as it's just part of their training. Chael Sonnen is a Vale Tudo fighter apparently.

 

[lechien]

. Chael Sonnen is a Vale Tudo fighter apparently.

Nah, I think that the english dude Michael Bisping.

 

[Bluesbreaker]

Nah, I think that the english dude Michael Bisping.

I believe they've both been announced as one, no? If anybody is though, it's gotta be Kongo.

 

[lechien]

I believe they've both been announced as one, no? If anybody is though, it's gotta be Kongo.

somehow I doubt chael would use any brasilian terminology to describe his fighting style.

 

[Rod1]

What about Dragon balll jiu jitsu?

 

[SFCFighter]

lol @ russian judokas beating russian wrestlers or judo guys beating wrestlers in MMA if there is no crosstraining

i have met a ton of people who were very good wrestlers, transitioned into judo late in life, and reached a national or international level very quickly.. ive met russian wrestlers who placed at judo nationals in russia (junior nationals) and they had never put on a gi in their entire lives before competing

i dont think the same would be likely in reverse.

 

[Bluesbreaker]

somehow I doubt chael would use any brasilian terminology to describe his fighting style.

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