Judo techniques: Why don't they beat wrestlers?

[Uchi Mata]

lol @ russian judokas beating russian wrestlers or judo guys beating wrestlers in MMA if there is no crosstraining

i have met a ton of people who were very good wrestlers, transitioned into judo late in life, and reached a national or international level very quickly.. ive met russian wrestlers who placed at judo nationals in russia (junior nationals) and they had never put on a gi in their entire lives before competing

i dont think the same would be likely in reverse.

Name two. If Judo were that easy, why aren't there a flock of wrestlers who can't quite make their national teams medaling in Olympic Judo? Wrestling may be a better base for MMA (I tend to agree that it is), but the idea that wrestlers can put on a gi and beat experience Judoka at Judo is ludicrous. I've had high school champs and D1 team members put on gis and do Judo with me, and while they have great balance and are hard to throw they have no gi grip fighting skills, and are really vulnerable to throws like uchi mata, tomoe nage, and various foot sweeps due to their stance.

If Judo were so easy to get good at quickly, you'd see a lot of wrestlers transitioning because who doesn't want an Olympic medal? But you don't, because it's no easier to transition to Judo from wrestling than it is to transition from wrestling to BJJ. Related but very different skill sets.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

lol @ russian judokas beating russian wrestlers or judo guys beating wrestlers in MMA if there is no crosstraining

Wrestling doesnt have subs, so without cross-training they would likely fare as well as the HH guys.

 

[Rod1]

lol @ russian judokas beating russian wrestlers or judo guys beating wrestlers in MMA if there is no crosstraining

i have met a ton of people who were very good wrestlers, transitioned into judo late in life, and reached a national or international level very quickly.. ive met russian wrestlers who placed at judo nationals in russia (junior nationals) and they had never put on a gi in their entire lives before competing

i dont think the same would be likely in reverse.

I call total BS on this.

 

[Steveston]

A lot of techniques require a Gi in Judo some don't but a lot of them do, My dad is a 2nd degree black belt it's a very good base to start with I think it's underrated. Despite the techniques requiring the empathizes to use the Gi, you can still dominant without using Gi Ronda Rousey is perfect proof.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

I would say a lot of throws dont necessarily require a gi. If you can get double overhooks or one overhook and an underhook or good grip with the other hand you can pull them off.

 

[Bluesbreaker]

And this is the key. Wrestling is more directly applicable to MMA than both judo and BJJ because it doesn't need to be adapted to no-gi.

BJJ is often adapted to it, whereas judo is rarely adapted. It can be done, but how often is no-gi specific judo trained?

 

[Dirty Holt]

Out of the 10 UFC current champs (including interim) only 3 wrestled in college but 9 are BJJ blackbelts.

Again, this is horseshit. 5/8 champions come from a strictly folkstyle background. That is Johnson, Cruz, Weidman, Jones, and Velasquez. Dont try to be tricky.

You want more stats? Out of your top 3 guys in each weight, 14/24 come from strictly folkstyle backgrounds.

For whatever your reasons are that make it invalid that folkstyle wrestlers dominate the sport, the stats dont lie.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

And this is the key. Wrestling is more directly applicable to MMA than both judo and BJJ because it doesn't need to be adapted to no-gi.

BJJ is often adapted to it, whereas judo is rarely adapted. It can be done, but how often is no-gi specific judo trained?

nop, bjj is best suited to MMA than judo because it focuses strictly in one aspect of the game, the ground, normally fighters train wrestling for stand up, so right now, bjj is an specialization, where judo runs vs wrestling for stand up, and the nature of wrestling (no gi) plus the folky rules makes wrestling a better suited stand up art for MMA, and Judo ground game is just way inferior to bjjs, whether you like it or not, it is. (I know I know, in the UK every judo guy is a wizard on the ground )

 

[Bluesbreaker]

nop, bjj is best suited to MMA than judo because it focuses strictly in one aspect of the game, the ground, normally fighters train wrestling for stand up, so right now, bjj is an specialization, where judo runs vs wrestling for stand up, and the nature of wrestling (no gi) plus the folky rules makes wrestling a better suited stand up art for MMA, and Judo ground game is just way inferior to bjjs, whether you like it or not, it is. (I know I know, in the UK every judo guy is a wizard on the ground )

Try some judo one day, instead of just spurting you judo hate around here.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Try some judo one day, instead of just spurting you judo hate around here.

well, again, was anything wrong in my post?

lets see...

my post said.

Wrestling translates better to mma as a stand up art than judo, right or wrong? ( based on what I said in my previous post)
Bjj is a superior ground art for mma, right or wrong? (based on what I said on my previous post)

I dont hate judo, I dont like to train it though, never said I did, I rather train wrestling for stand up, but that doesnt change the fact that what I said is true, as much as that hurts your Taliban judo ass...

 

[Bluesbreaker]

I have this theory that a judo player once stole your girlfriend or split up your parents' marriage. Which one is it?

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I have this theory that a judo player once stole your girlfriend or split up your parents' marriage. Which one is it?

and Im still waiting for your answer of my post, its fairly easy to answer.

 

[Einarr]

I have this theory that a judo player once stole your girlfriend or split up your parents' marriage. Which one is it?

"He was busily preaching the virtues of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu to his bored girlfriend when out of nowhere . . . OSOTO GARI! He woke up seeing stars and with his butt hurting terribly. Through the blur he saw a tall, handsome, Mizuno-clad man walking away into the sunset hand-in-hand with his beloved. At that moment he turned to the heavens and cried out his oath to Helio that he would have his revenge . . . at that moment he became BJJ_Rage."

True story.

 

[Dirty Holt]

Name two. If Judo were that easy, why aren't there a flock of wrestlers who can't quite make their national teams medaling in Olympic Judo? Wrestling may be a better base for MMA (I tend to agree that it is), but the idea that wrestlers can put on a gi and beat experience Judoka at Judo is ludicrous.

I agree with you, but it isnt ludicrous. One wrestler even put on a gi and won the Olympics, one that I know of won the world championships.

Tuvshinbayar Naidan won the Olympics for Mongolia when I was training for the Beijing Games.

Kenny Hashimoto also did it for USA when I was there as well. He was a resident at the OTC when I was after wrestling in HS and for UNC. He was a national champion and Olympic alternate for us.

USA's best Judoka ever was Jimmy Pedro who was a highschool folkstyle state champ and wrestled for Brown in college. After college he switched to judo and won the world championships and took bronze in the Olympics as well as a bunch of other accolades that I cant really remember.

The judokas used to come cross train with us in Colorado Springs. They trained hard and were fairly tough considering they werent wrestling on a daily basis. I would imagine in a gi they would be much tougher to beat. I would imagine a world level judoka would be impossible to beat in the gi without leg attacks if our greco guys just walked into the world championships and put on a gi. However, with training, it has been possible for wrestlers who have tried.

 

[Uchi Mata]

I agree with you, but it isnt ludicrous. One wrestler even put on a gi and won the Olympics, one that I know of won the world championships.

Tuvshinbayar Naidan won the Olympics for Mongolia when I was training for the Beijing Games.

Kenny Hashimoto also did it for USA when I was there as well. He was a resident at the OTC when I was after wrestling in HS and for UNC. He was a national champion and Olympic alternate for us.

USA's best Judoka ever was Jimmy Pedro who was a highschool folkstyle state champ and wrestled for Brown in college. After college he switched to judo and won the world championships and took bronze in the Olympics as well as a bunch of other accolades that I cant really remember.

The judokas used to come cross train with us in Colorado Springs. They trained hard and were fairly tough considering they werent wrestling on a daily basis. I would imagine in a gi they would be much tougher to beat. I would imagine a world level judoka would be impossible to beat in the gi without leg attacks if our greco guys just walked into the world championships and put on a gi. However, with training, it has been possible for wrestlers who have tried.

Both Naidan and Pedro trained Judo essentially their whole lives while also training wrestling. Given that Pedro is a 10x Jr. National Judo Champ, he didn't 'switch' to Judo after college. His dad is a well known Judo coach, Pedro was doing Judo as soon as he could walk. ( http://jimmypedro.com/blog/jimmy-pedro/ if you want to check for yourself). Hashimoto also did both from a young age.

I'm not saying wrestling isn't helpful for Judo. Hell, any grappling is probably helpful for any other grappling art. But please don't act like these guys were only wrestlers prior to putting on a gi at a late age and dominating national level events. That's simply not the case. They all trained Judo alongside wrestling for years before making national teams and winning international medals.

 

[ChainFlow]

Naidan did Bohke. Which is farther away from folk style wrestling than judo is.

 

[QingTian]

Both Naidan and Pedro trained Judo essentially their whole lives while also training wrestling. Given that Pedro is a 10x Jr. National Judo Champ, he didn't 'switch' to Judo after college. His dad is a well known Judo coach, Pedro was doing Judo as soon as he could walk. ( http://jimmypedro.com/blog/jimmy-pedro/ if you want to check for yourself). Hashimoto also did both from a young age.

I'm not saying wrestling isn't helpful for Judo. Hell, any grappling is probably helpful for any other grappling art. But please don't act like these guys were only wrestlers prior to putting on a gi at a late age and dominating national level events. That's simply not the case. They all trained Judo alongside wrestling for years before making national teams and winning international medals.

In addition Hashimoto did Judo his whole life as well. It's more correct to say they switched to wrestling from Judo, than wrestling to Judo.

 

[Dirty Holt]

If you want to put a bunch of stulipulations on it that's fine. You can interpret it to fit your argument all you want. You asked for two wrestlers who did well in judo at a high level. I gave you two college wrestlers and a Mongolian who was on the freestyle national team who went on to win world and Olympic titles after quitting wrestling. If that's not good enough then don't even ask. No country will even allow a wrestler to walk off the mat, arbitrarily award himself a black belt and jump on the world team on a whim.

 

[QingTian]

If you want to put a bunch of stulipulations on it that's fine. You can interpret it to fit your argument all you want. You asked for two wrestlers who did well in judo at a high level. I gave you two college wrestlers and a Mongolian who was on the freestyle national team who went on to win world and Olympic titles after quitting wrestling. If that's not good enough then don't even ask. No country will even allow a wrestler to walk off the mat, arbitrarily award himself a black belt and jump on the world team on a whim.

I don't think it's stipulations and argument fitting when the players mentioned have done more years of Judo than wrestling. Even the Mongolian too (that country has strong Judo).

 

[Dirty Holt]

I don't think it's stipulations and argument fitting when the players mentioned have done more years of Judo than wrestling. Even the Mongolian too (that country has strong Judo).

really? You think 2 college wrestlers had less time on the wrestling mats by the time they were 22 than judo? College wrestling is 2x a day for 4-5 years and once a day for 7 years of scholastic. That's not even counting peewee.