Jon's legacy is already aging poorly

BigNick100 said:
Most people want him to take the fight because they want to see him lose, more than see Tom win.

With that said, if he beats Tom, those same haters that wanted him to lose will continue to trash him, they will still bring up steroids and his outside the cage antics like the hit and run or the wife incident.

So no I don’t think him fighting Tom and losing is better than not fighting Tom at all, if he loses to Tom the little haters will be 10times worse saying he was never the goat and all that junk.

Its actually lose lose for Jones not a win win IMO
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Than he needs to be stripped or Vacate.

I was never a Jones hater before this annoying ass saga.
 
RockyLockridge said:
Jones legacy is cured cement, only twisted deranged perspectives will see something else
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That's a weird view.

Personally I don't care much one way or the other about his legacy. But thinking someone "deranged" for having at least a nuanced view of it is bizarre.

The obvious comp would be like a Barry Bonds in baseball. Undeniable talent that helped make him an all time great, but clearly cheated with PED use to where the lines got extremely blurred on how much of his success could be attributed to the juicing. And his "legacy" is that those who matter won't allow him into the HOF and a significant % of people disqualify him instantly in any GOAT talks.

I think with Jones the personal issues he's had aren’t relevant to his in cage "legacy", but the cheating is. And I don't think either position (having him as the GOAT or disqualifying him outright) are unreasonable. I get both arguments.
 
volcom5 said:
You new fans has been making a mockery of this forums for the last 5 years with your constant whining and crying. You weirdos can’t even enjoy a night of fights with crying and complaining.
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Well as it happens I started watching around 2007, that’s a year after your sign up date, does that make me invalid as a fan? I don’t even know what you’re trying to say there but let’s stick to the point. You endorse a steroid cheater who cherry picks fights. Then you guys have the audacity to pretend this guy is the greatest of all time. You expose yourself in doing that and that’s why you get a lot of flack, and rightly so. The guy has selfishly denied another fellow fighter his opportunity out of sheer fucking selfishness and fear. That’s why you get shit on.
 
mkess101 said:
That's a weird view.

Personally I don't care much one way or the other about his legacy. But thinking someone "deranged" for having at least a nuanced view of it is bizarre.
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retroactively picking through a career that has been 14 years long without losses in a half hearted attempt to say it has aged is absolutely derranged. fullstop.

nothing that you said, at all, has ANYTHING to do with his resume aging. which is the topic of this converation, not how goated he is. I completely understand and endorse anyone who wants to wants to bar him from the list. but legacy is again, cemented and is not aging or chaging or deteriorating in anyway. that is pure bullshit. If you wanna claim his legacy is "tainted" fine. That's not the argument here though
 
ThaiSexPills said:
Than he needs to be stripped or Vacate.

I was never a Jones hater before this annoying ass saga.
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Fair enough. Jones's ego is so massive, he wont vacate lol.

It's on the UFC, not sure what they're waiting on if Jones is gonna retire or not fight Tom...but the ball is in the court of the UFC...

Could be they still think they can convince Jones, or it has to do with the new TV deal they will be negotiating..

But regardless is old and played out now...
 
I think whether his legacy ages well or badly is pretty irrelevant to me.

It's just difficult to see anything positive in JBJ's behavior. And accordingly, there will always be people who will denigrate his successes from this perspective, especially because of PEDs.

And there will always be people who question the successes of any fighter. That's human nature.
You can include his out-of-cage actions or not. That should be up to each individual.

But PEDs are simply a no-go for many. And if people have the opportunity to question his legacy because of that, they will. And no one can blame them for that either.

Who cares about Lance "super PED" Armstrong's seven Tour de France victories? Or the home run fight between Bonds and Sosa?
Neither Armstrong, Bonds, nor Sosa will receive their sport's highest honor, the Hall of Fame. Their legacys are fucked.
Was it worth taking PEDs then?

It's all tainted, I just wonder why it should be any different in MMA?
 
Jones killed his legacy with "real" mma fans. He'll have his fanboys though and the general masses will not be informed about his behavior, ducking and cheating.
 
sickness666 said:
I think whether his legacy ages well or badly is pretty irrelevant to me.

It's just difficult to see anything positive in JBJ's behavior. And accordingly, there will always be people who will denigrate his successes from this perspective, especially because of PEDs.

And there will always be people who question the successes of any fighter. That's human nature.
You can include his out-of-cage actions or not. That should be up to each individual.

But PEDs are simply a no-go for many. And if people have the opportunity to question his legacy because of that, they will. And no one can blame them for that either.

Who cares about Lance "super PED" Armstrong's seven Tour de France victories? Or the home run fight between Bonds and Sosa?
Neither Armstrong, Bonds, nor Sosa will receive their sport's highest honor, the Hall of Fame. Their legacys are fucked.
Was it worth taking PEDs then?

It's all tainted, I just wonder why it should be any different in MMA?
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In a sense it was worth it money and exposure wise till it lasted. Legacy wise you’re screwed, but you made millions thx to PEDS. Without them no one would even know about Armstrong and he’d prob just be an unknown poor farmer.

Jones without PEDs would have been a nobody.
 
I think Ariel said it best:

"Yes, a legacy is built over time, but you've certainly been doing a lot of damage to it for the past year"
 
bjjwar said:
In a sense it was worth it money and exposure wise till it lasted. Legacy wise you’re screwed, but you made millions thx to PEDS. Without them no one would even know about Armstrong and he’d prob just be an unknown poor farmer.

Jones without PEDs would have been a nobody.
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I dont know about the situations of Sosa or Bonds. But with Armstrong, who came back from cancer and winning 7 Tours, it was a cinderella story till he got busted. Cycling isn´t that popular in the US but in Europe he was really a hero even before he got his first Tour. Now his legacy in Europe is more than tainted. It feels like calling his name is already an insult. But that has probably to do with the fact that he pranked them for so long.
I doubt that he has that much money left after all that legal trouble he had afterwards.

I have a hard time to fully agreeing with your last sentence. At the time he came up he was a raw but unique talent. Nobody knows how long he took em.
And to assume that he has done this throughout his entire career is, in my opinion, no better than the argument: everybody is on something.
 
loisestrad said:
Tom is a good fighter. Is he a great fighter? We don't know. He hasn't got a single win against someone considered better than "good".

Now, I'm not blind to the fact that Jones is in part to blame for that by not giving Tom the opportunity to fight someone great, aka Jones himself.
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Jones is a good fighter at HW. Is he great at HW? We have no idea. If he gave himself the opportunity to fight the top contenders, maybe we would find out.

'Great fighter' is always relative to the competition of the time and HW is unlike any other division. To say that Tom has to beat Jon to prove he's great is ridiculous. It's quite the opposite.
 
He's a huge bitch
Strip him from his title and be done with "The Barry Bond of this sport"
UFC don't need his geriatric old ass anymore

And for legacy purpose: GSP is the GOAT anyway
 
Captain Herb said:
Jones is a good fighter at HW. Is he great at HW? We have no idea. If he gave himself the opportunity to fight the top contenders, maybe we would find out.
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You misspelled "contender." When you get past Jones and Aspinall, the current HW division is the second weakest division in modern UFC history after Women's FW, with the same issue of having one or two top fighters and a bunch of scrubs who might get thrown into a title fight and could theoretically even win but who will never be contenders.
 
there's a small but annoying minority that is going to be really surprised how poorly his career will age when he's gone and not fighting anymore. the erosion has already begun just because he's hilariously inactive. just wait until he's not fighting at all and all you're left with is his constant fuckups. his legacy is gonna age like a banana, sad to say. he did it to himself, and if he doesn't care neither do I
 
JBJ was here said:
You misspelled "contender." When you get past Jones and Aspinall, the current HW division is the second weakest division in modern UFC history after Women's FW, with the same issue of having one or two top fighters and a bunch of scrubs who might get thrown into a title fight and could theoretically even win but who will never be contenders.
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Like Aspinall, Jones can only fight who's put before him...or not.

One's a contender, the other's a pretender
 
TempleoftheDog said:
I’m trying to figure out how anybody says he has any legit “legacy”, at all?

He has not won a single UFC fight. Without a huge asterisk beside it.
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His peers see him as an all time great. That’s all it takes to have a legitimate legacy.
 
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