Jones would rather fight 45 yr old fossil Stipe than cement his legacy against Tom

[King in the North]

His legacy was cemented years ago he doesn’t need the fight

 

[krelianx]

Why do you think people will give him the benefit of the doubt and not see it that way? You think the dude has created that much good will with the public? It's clear to anyone that follows the sport that Tom is the bigger challenge, than Stipe. Jon is very clear about not wanting to fight Tom. Big names and all that BS is an argument for the casuals who are only impressed by a few names they can recognize. It's a clear excuse from Jon. Dude is the interim champ for fucks sake, that's more than enough justification for him to face Jon and Jon knows that.

Also, why do people accept this whole retirement BS excuse from him? Dude is not that old, especially not for HW and he has been very inactive, so milage isn't that bad even though he was the youngest champ and all that. It's not like he is Stipe who is well into his 40's and has been in brutal wars one after another and got KTFO! And even had serious damage done to his eyes by DC. Of course, now he has a serious injury, but this retirement talk has been going on for ages now. It's likely also just a bargaining tactic to create leverage and in a sense create interest from the fans, IMO, which is smart.

If he wants to retire it's not because he has declined that much, IMO. But because he can't handle all the pressure of being who is anymore, which he obviously was never that great at.

I don't see how hypothetical future losses have anything to do with his decision, besides just looking for reasons to justify not wanting the bigger challenge and rightful challenger to the belt.

Of course it will last. It's the age of the internet. People don't forget. Everything is easily accessible. Tom will be in the history books regardless, because he will likely be the next undisputed champ after Jon retires. People will not just stop watching MMA after Jon retires. Tom will be in the spotlight and in the history books as the champ who followed Jon up. And the way it's getting drawn out with this injure only will make it a bigger page or maybe several pages of the history books This is not some obscure matter that people won't remember.

And you can't convince me that Jon values the casual opinions more, than the opinions of people who actually want to understand the sport. Because that's what it comes down to when you talk about legacy.

I think if he wins the Stipe fight and retires the wealth of his accomplishments will outshine not having fought Aspinall at the last turn, particularly if he has a good showing. The majority of fans will give him a pass, UFC mediatic spectacle will do so, and there will be a conciliatory narrative about how Jones had hurdles but in the end was the GOAT. You forget that while Jon has many haters and detractors (myself included) he is also one of the most popular fighters, and many fighters, analysts, and fans consider him the undisputed GOAT already, regardless of what happens with Stipe. I think if he beats Stipe and retires that subset of the fanbase and MMA world will outspeak the detractor end.

I don't think the retirement talk is a tactic; 36yo is not a terrible age to retire since one is likely already in decline, and Jon is coming off an injury. It's not as if Stipe or DC looked great into their 40s. And frankly Jones hasn't looked particularly good in the majority of his last outtings: Smith, Santos, Reyes... Gane was a short fight, but the three prior to that were very mediocre performances, two of which were toss-up decisions. He is clearly past his prime, is coming from injury, competing at a higher weight class and won't be going back to LHW, and is older.

Concerning the future of Aspinall, I am making a point about longer term perception. If Aspinall loses his next two fights and never gets the title again, people will retrospectively say he never was that good, and that people who thought he could be the next 'big thing' were wrong. He will be forgotten in that narrative. That's the way of the sport. And that will affect how people perceive Jon's decision. Yes, he is likely be the next undisputed champ, but we don't know this to a certainty, and even then we don't know if he would manage to defend his title once or twice. So, I understand Jon for thinking this is a fight that is too risky for too little in return. Aspinall is simply not a household name, doesn't have the titles, or cemented value for Jon at this juncture.

Would I prefer to see it? Sure. Would it be objectively more meaningful than Stipe? Sure. But the wider fanbase does not concur, and the fact remains Stipe will make bigger numbers, is an easier fight and more consolidated name. More money, easier fight, more historical prestige (at least to the eyes of most).

I would normally think this is BS but since it is Jon's retirement fight, I'm fine with it. I don't think this will affect how I rank Jones at all, however.

 

[MMAJunkie]

Dude has no wrestling/ Jiu Jitsu. It wasn’t even a fight it was mma vs kickboxing.

But yet your boy Tom is ducking Gane.
See what I did there.

Tom needs to fight. And stop talking. He is only on a 2 fight win streak.

 

[Popnfresh]

They rescheduled a whole event for Jon when he refused to face Chael on short notice. Chael Sonnen, at LHW.

True, it's not his fault that Henderson got injured though. Just like it's not Stipe's fault that Jones got injured. Stipe not wanting to fight Aspinal is a nearly parallel to that.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

Yeah the Stipe you remember might beat those guys.

Current Stipe will be a shell of himself. Otherwise no fighters would ever retire

Based on what? If you think age I can understand yet 40 isn't insane for a HW. So many have said "Stipe was KO'd dead in his last fight" as if he got KO'd by Tito Ortiz like Chuck. Getting KO'd dead cold by Frank isn't due to his age and isn't due to him slowing down. It was due to Frank hitting like a Ford Escort.

Stipe hasn't got a ton of mileage on his body from wars in the octagon and being off for 3 years might well be a huge benefit. Even if Stipe is only 90 or 80% of what his peak was that is still better than many on the list at their peak.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

True, it's not his fault that Henderson got injured though. Just like it's not Stipe's fault that Jones got injured. Stipe not wanting to fight Aspinal is a nearly parallel to that.

Difference is Stipe isn't holding the "Undisputed" title and refusing a fight with an Interim title holder. Jon's "Undisputed" status evaporated the moment an Interim title was created, it literally Disputes Jon's championship status.

 

[Bigmoney4166]

Tells you everything you need to know. Jon doesn’t have a warriors spirit. He’s happy to feather his nest and lie to his own fans. I mean sure he puts in a lot of time training in the gym which not everyone can do, but as far as his character and how he reacts to struggles inside and outside the cage, he’s not an example to follow. Genuinely don’t know how this guy has any fans. From the first time I heard him speak I knew he was a fake guy, you could hear how contrived his words were. This was when he was in his religious holier than thou phase lol, remember that.

The Jones hate is starting to get embarrassing.

 

[pick999]

Jon has already proved it long ago hes just doing side quests now

 

[Ace70 V2]

What’s this supposed to mean?

His legacy is already cemented is what it means. And it is.

 

[Popnfresh]

Difference is Stipe isn't holding the "Undisputed" title and refusing a fight with an Interim title holder. Jon's "Undisputed" status evaporated the moment an Interim title was created, it literally Disputes Jon's championship status.

The interim belt was the UFC's choice, not Jones'. He had a fight already lined up with Stipe and then he got injured. They're just postponing a fight that 2 people had already agreed to do. If anyone is at fault, it's the UFC for mismanaging their belts.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

The interim belt was the UFC's choice, not Jones'. He had a fight already lined up with Stipe and then he got injured. They're just postponing a fight that 2 people had already agreed to do. If anyone is at fault, it's the UFC for mismanaging their belts.

I agree the UFC fucked this all up but Jon is not off the hook for it. Imagine if the UFC said to him "Jon we are making an Interim fight so you can choose to either a) defend against the winner or b) vacate and fight Stipe for the "Legacy" belt. No way Jon agrees to that IMO. He is too fragile mentally. The guy freaks out on Twitter over P4P rankings and other little crap. The UFC are walking on eggshells to keep Jon happy as they want to get the last PPV out of him as he is retiring.

 

[Popnfresh]

I agree the UFC fucked this all up but Jon is not off the hook for it. Imagine if the UFC said to him "Jon we are making an Interim fight so you can choose to either a) defend against the winner or b) vacate and fight Stipe for the "Legacy" belt. No way Jon agrees to that IMO. He is too fragile mentally. The guy freaks out on Twitter over P4P rankings and other little crap. The UFC are walking on eggshells to keep Jon happy as they want to get the last PPV out of him as he is retiring.

I have a feeling he'll do one more fight after Stipe. I just don't know if it will be a contender, or another legacy fight. I don't feel he's scared of anyone but USADA and replacement opponents. I think he just really likes the Stipe matchup and thinks it will be good for his highlight reel. Stipe is a scary old man that has tricks that go deep into the fight, though. While I strongly believe Jon will pull it off, Stipe is tricky and has a chance. If Stipe wins, I'll be laughing like crazy along with Aspinal.

 

[Roids]

Aspinall became Interim champion after the original fight got cancelled, beating him doesnt really add to Jones legacy, Stipe does, even if he is old and basically retired,

How does beating Stipe who has not fought in 3 years, and was knocked out in his last fight add to his legacy? You think just a name regardless of context adds to legacy? Thats such a casual take.

We are thinking from a fan's perspective. I and most people want Jones to fight the best in the world. Jones however wants to retire but in his eyes, he wants to cement his legacy by fighting the guy that is considered the best UFC heavyweight of all time at least from a record perspective. To him, that's the cherry on the sundae.

We all understand Jones perspective, he wants to cherry pick a name on his resume to fool the idiots rather than actually really accomplishing something like beating the top ranked interim champion who is on a tear. Will anyone really be excited for the Stipe Jones fight? What a waste of time.

 

[Poirierfan]

Tells you everything you need to know. Jon doesn’t have a warriors spirit. He’s happy to feather his nest and lie to his own fans. I mean sure he puts in a lot of time training in the gym which not everyone can do, but as far as his character and how he reacts to struggles inside and outside the cage, he’s not an example to follow. Genuinely don’t know how this guy has any fans. From the first time I heard him speak I knew he was a fake guy, you could hear how contrived his words were. This was when he was in his religious holier than thou phase lol, remember that.

Jones is poison, like seriously.

 

[MawrSeneca]

I don't know why people are getting this upset about the situation. Fighting Aspinall does nothing for Jones. His legacy is set. The history books won't say that Jones beat a washed Stipe, it'll be a W next to the UFC HW GOAT. Anyone thinking Jones has to fight Aspinall is just deluding themselves.

If I'm Tom I try to get a fight soon and start raking in those PPV points until Jones officially vacates. He can fight Gane, Blaydes, Almeida.

 

[fedorthegoat777]

Jones did fight a lot of killers.

Yes, for his final fight he is looking for an easy give me fight. Arthritic old man Stipe will provide that.

 

[JonnyBonesPharmacist]

Best heavyweight in UFC history, or an interim champ who nobody knows. You gotta be kidding

 

[Ibm]

Fossil Stipe would still have beaten Jones!

 

[GOATtalks]

Half a decade is a significant difference at that stage (36 and 41) when it comes to professional sports.

Lol. I was calling out TS on exaggerating Stipe’s age by half a decade, yet you seem fine with that. Ridiculous.

DC was 39, while Stipe was 35 when they first met and DC KO’ed him. 4-5 years isn’t a big age gap.

Also Jones has actually more mileage than Stipe.

And we’ve had champions at that age beating younger opponents plenty of times.

44 year old Couture beat 28 year old Gonzaga.
42 yo Glover beat 38 yo Jan.
39 yo DC beat 33 yo Lewis.
38 yo Jan beat 31 yo Izzy.
37 yo Werdum beat 32 yo Cain.
36 yo Woodley beat 25 yo Till.
36 yo Poatan beat 31 yo Jiri.

 

[Satchm0]

His legacy is cemented. Stipe would be icing on the cake, and is a very winnable fight. Not wanting to fight a newcomer who is not a household name, hasn't got a significant belt, and who is much younger and more dangerous doesn't make sense for Jones. It's like GSP fighting Whitaker after winning the belt with Bisping. The risk reward just isn't there.

I would much rather see Aspinall and think it would mean more, but Stipe is a much bigger fight sales wise and in the eyes of most. Most fans don't know who Aspinall is yet.

I don't like Jones and think he is a cheater and thus disqualified from GOAT contention, but it is also highly ridiculous to say he doesn't have a warrior's spirit if you look at who he has fought. That he wants a legacy fight for his retirement and is trying not to tarnish his undefeated status at the tail end of the journey is not lacking a warrior's spirit, it is being intelligent.

Agreed. Wheelchair or Rollator Stipe is a very winnable fight.