Jones: better or worse than he seems?

[TheToqueville]

When I look at a champ like Khabib, I see complete and utter dominance. He makes guys quit in the ring, and makes it look easy. His wrestling is so damn good that I can't see any other lw on the planet beating him, other than with a fluke KO.

Jones, on the other hand, has a significant amount of very close wins.

DC 1 was a slugfest, with neither fighter looking great by the end. DC 2 was a close match up until the KO (hell DC might have even been winning until that point).

OSP fight was unimpressive. Santos fight was very close, and the guys legs were shot. Gus 1 was very close. Gus 2 jones had a great game plan for, so I'll give him that one.

With all these close wins, is Jon overrated / lucky ? He clearly isn't very dominant. Other than Gus 2, I haven't seen him put on a Khabib style one sided beatdown in a while.

Or is all of this on purpose? As he leaves his athletic prime, maybe he has just adopted a much more careful and meticulous style (like Kobe in his 30s), meaning he is content to get the close wins ? Maybe he is just that good and all this is part of the plan?

Which one is it?

Fun fact about Gus 1 that everyone loves to forget...jon jones broke and dislocated his big toe 6 months before that. Most people arent even walking normally after that kind of injury in 6 months, let alone fighting.

The second time around, he had 2 working feet....

 

[Dbreiden83080]

No offense to Smith but the guy is a can. Gus retired, that's not a big win.

Khabib Has beat enough cans to last a lifetime. Honestly his resume is not very impressive. How many Hall of Fame level fighters are on there? Almost 0.

 

[TheToqueville]

Worse. With his lack of a conscience, we don't know what atrocities he's capable of.


Oh, you're talking about fighting?
Who knows, man. Can't tell until he stops pulsing. When the pictograms stop living in his system, he'll show us what he's really got. Could take six years for that shit to die, though - so we've got awhile to wait.

In 6 years will you stop being butthurt about Jones sleeping your favorite fighter?

 

[DivineMind]

Khabib Has fought a lot of tomato cans. So the comparison is bullshit.

Yes but he looked ridiculously dominant vs two top tier fighters in Poirier and Mcg.

Jon has fought many true middleweights.

 

[ermac88]

I'm not talking about accomplishments or GOAT status.

I merely am pointing out that current version of Jones seems like he's been skating on thin ice recently. Khabib looks like a monster that can't be defeated.

I guess I'm wondering whether Jones, having lost his physical dominance, is likely to lose soon.

Or are his intangibles just that good that he's still leagues above everyone else?

Khabib has 2 title defenses.
why draw such an odd comparison?

maybe compare to some other brand new champs with similar title defenses like Izzy or Usman.

 

[Dbreiden83080]

Yes but he looked ridiculously dominant vs two top tier fighters in Poirier and Mcg.

Jon has fought many true middleweights.

Conor Took out Dustin in like 30 seconds. What was Dustin’s greatest win exactly? Max? Max just lost his championship belt to a midget.

 

[Genisys]

Ya but I'm talking about recent bouts. Smith wasn't close but given how trash Smith is the performance should have been much better.

Jones was super dominant early on. Had some amazing finishes against killers. Tooled a lot of people.

DC 2 I had DC up before the KO. And headkick KOs are a little fluke-ish. DC got sloppy and paid for it

Smith is not trash. I don't know where you got that idea. He finished Gus and Volkan. He may not be the best fighter in the world, but he is a top tier fighter. You have to look at more than just a record to judge a fighter. Most of his losses came when he was pretty green. He's only 31 and has 3 losses since 2014.

 

[ermac88]

Yes but he looked ridiculously dominant vs two top tier fighters in Poirier and Mcg.

Jon has fought many true middleweights.

he beat more lhw and hw champions though.

 

[DivineMind]

Khabib Has beat enough cans to last a lifetime. Honestly his resume is not very impressive. How many Hall of Fame level fighters are on there? Almost 0.

Jones has beat very few HOF fighters at their peak as well.

There's DC... Andddd ?

 

[Dbreiden83080]

Khabib has 2 title defenses.
why draw such an odd comparison?

maybe compare to some other brand new champs with similar title defenses like Izzy or Usman.

And if he loses to Tony his entire record is slammed. Because Tony probably represents the toughest test of his career. Stylistically anyway.

 

[Dbreiden83080]

Jones has beat very few HOF fighters at their peak as well.

There's DC... Andddd ?

Lol yeah ok

Jones was a fucking baby when he was beating these all-time legendary fighters. He was not in his prime. He was not even close to being in his prime. Watch Jones at 23 and tell me his striking is anywhere near the level it is today.

 

[No Skill Gap]

Except that Khabib has struggled against guys like Tibau (arguably lost the fight on rounds), Iaquinta (sort of), Michael Johnson (standing) and hasn't really defended at all compared to Jones.

Khabib won the title off Iaquinta, which is a joke. He's defended twice since then and has faced two guys in McGregor and Porier who aren't wrestlers, albeit two good wins.

Jones has defened his belt 10 times, and also fought in 4 title fights (one interim) outside of that. Yeah Jon Jones hasn't killed people lately but he did in the earlier portion of his career. Not even comparable, Jones has a way better resume' and it's the exact opposite of what you're saying.

Khabib won the belt off Iaquinta. His best wins are McGregor and Porier probably, his 3rd best is like...Barboza? Where as Jones has beat DC twice (draw for one), Bader, Shogun, Rampage, Machida, Evans, TRT Belfort, Glover, Gus twice, OSP...I mean he just has a superior resume' it's not really debatable.

 

[DivineMind]

Lol yeah ok

Jones was a fucking baby when he was beating these all-time legendary fighters. He was not in his prime. He was not even close to being in his prime. Watch Jones at 23 and tell me his striking is anywhere near the level it is today.

Um his physical prime, yes. He was at PPP (peak pulsing power). Actually, scratch that, the dude wasn't pulsing, he was straight up gushing with roids.

 

[Private Whatley]

Ya but I'm talking about recent bouts. Smith wasn't close but given how trash Smith is the performance should have been much better.

Jones was super dominant early on. Had some amazing finishes against killers. Tooled a lot of people.

DC 2 I had DC up before the KO. And headkick KOs are a little fluke-ish. DC got sloppy and paid for it

Smith smashed Shogun and Rashad and subbed Volkan and Gus. While the former two are well past their prime, the latter two were top contenders coming off respective title shots. Hell, Volkan arguably beat Reyes in his next fight. Smith is way better than people seem to think and Jones toyed with him.

 

[DivineMind]

Except that Khabib has struggled against guys like Tibau (arguably lost the fight on rounds), Iaquinta (sort of), Michael Johnson (standing) and hasn't really defended at all compared to Jones.

Khabib won the title off Iaquinta, which is a joke. He's defended twice since then and has faced two guys in McGregor and Porier who aren't wrestlers, albeit two good wins.

Jones has defened his belt 10 times, and also fought in 4 title fights (one interim) outside of that. Yeah Jon Jones hasn't killed people lately but he did in the earlier portion of his career. Not even comparable, Jones has a way better resume' and it's the exact opposite of what you're saying.

Khabib won the belt off Iaquinta. His best wins are McGregor and Porier probably, his 3rd best is like...Barboza? Where as Jones has beat DC twice (draw for one), Bader, Shogun, Rampage, Machida, Evans, TRT Belfort, Glover, Gus twice, OSP...I mean he just has a superior resume' it's not really debatable.

Ur missing the point of my thread though.

I'm just wondering how good Jones intangibles are, since it seems like he's out of his physical prime. Has the dude just been lucky, lately? Is he due for a loss? Or is his skill just that good that it'll carry him for a few more years?

 

[Dbreiden83080]

Um his physical prime, yes. He was at PPP (peak pulsing power). Actually, scratch that, the dude wasn't pulsing, he was straight up gushing with roids.

Facing other guys that were also gushing with Roids. Some that were known cheaters by the way.

Sonnen
Vitor

 

[DivineMind]

Smith smashed Shogun and Rashad and subbed Volkan and Gus. While former two are well past their prime, the latter two were top contenders coming off respective title shots. Hell, Volkan arguably beat Reyes in his next fight. Smith is way better than people seem to think sand Jones toyed with him.

Volkan is his only good win. Gus was only given the shot because there were no other good fights to give Jones at the time. He ended up retiring after.

He's a glorified gatekeeper, the guy isn't good.

 

[ermac88]

Jones has beat very few HOF fighters at their peak as well.

There's DC... Andddd ?

well Shogun was 29 defeated the undefeated Machida.
Rashad had 1 career loss (to champ)
Lyoto had 1 career loss (to champ)
Rampage was 32 and recent champ
TRT Vitor was in his 3rd prime.
Gus had 1 career loss.

All but Gus are HOF and I know I know, 1 loss they were over the hill at that point

 

[DivineMind]

I should have given you guys my view.

@Dbreiden83080

Jones physicality is in the top 3-7 range, he's no longer the most physically imposing guy at his weight class. But he's always been a student of the sport. I think his high skill level and excellent game planning is keeping him alive.

But any day now, an up and comer is gonna really hurt him. Maybe not this year, but the next I think he will get his first loss.

 

[blaseblah]

He's lost a lot more rounds than Khabib and Khabib wins a lot more 10-8 rounds in a way more stacked division.

Jones has more of an ego and wants to beat fighters at their own game, while Khabib's game plan is to takedown and smash in every fight. That's the main difference between them.