Jon Jones is not the GOAT. Here's why

tat2man5k said:
In b4 TLDR
That said, JBJ is probably the GOAT. Can't be (practically) undefeated in the UFC all these years if he wasn't. Did he get some out of prime guys? Sure. Did he still beat them? Yep. Did he arguably lose his fights against Gus, Santos and Reyes? Yep. All these things, to me, mean nothing. The only things that tarnished his legacy to me are the steroids.
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He made a name fighting over the hill legends with big names whilst juiced to the neck and eyeballs and cheating and dirty fighting.
 
BigOlJeet said:
He made a name fighting over the hill legends with big names whilst juiced to the neck and eyeballs and cheating and dirty fighting.
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I hear you, and i get it. And let's be real here, I can't stand the guy, BUT he beat every one of them. And like i said, to me, the steroids (and the dirty fighting, which i didnt put in my original post) DQ him.
 
Anyone who pisses hot can’t be the goat - period



Neither is Mighty Mouse though - don’t know where the fuck that came from - “we want picks” maybe
 
Jones is probably the GOAT of the sport. Nobody else has his longevity. I don't care about steroids because all the greats were on it.
 
SnakeBites said:
TLDR: If you don't want to read all this, please scroll down to the end for the TLDR.

First of all don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he is not in the debate for GOAT, I'm saying he is not the undisputed GOAT like the UFC are making him out to be. Let's be honest, Jones kind of got lucky that even though he beat a lot of great fighters in his division, a lot of these fighters were past their best. Very fortunate. Before he faced them, Rashad had been knocked out by Machida. Machida had been knocked out by Shogun. Shogun was a shell of his former self in Pride. Rampage was past his best. Belfort was past his best. He did have impressive victories no doubt. But this is were my disdain comes in. He lost his last two fights at light heavyweght to Santos and Reyes. I don't care what anyone says he lost those fights. He knew it which is why he dropped the belt soon after. He knew his time was coming. He was scared. What true great runs away from competition? Then we heard nothing from him and as soon as Ngannou left the UFC and Stipe got old, here comes the scaredy cat again knowing the HW is a weak division he can conquer. Beat a nobody to get the belt. And isn't it not surprising that he absolutely refuses to fight Tom Aspinall? He wants no parts of him because he knows he is a threat. I'm sorry I can't call a scaredy cat like Jones the GOAT.

Also, why is it that Dana and the UFC have forgotten about other GOATs like Anderson Silva and Fedor. I'll tell you why. It's because they fought on too long after they got old. Had they retired while at the top, they would be in these GOAT conversions, but all people remember are their losses when they got washed up. But I tell you one thing, Fedor and Anderson never backed down from a threat, they faced all challengers, these is what a true GOAT is made of. Not those scaredy cats Jones or GSP. GSP is another that got the hell out when the fights got tougher. Came back when Bisping won the title because he thought it would be an easy fight, then retired right away because he knew what was waiting for him if he stayed. Also I think Anderson losing to Jake Paul really hurt his legacy, people are forgetting all the great things he did and acheived.

Jones reminds me of Michael Jordan. It's been programmed to our minds that MJ is GOAT, and we don't even question it, we just accept it because he was before most of our time. Have you ever stopped to think, are you thinking for yourself, or are you letting others decide for you? Well let me tell you, Jordan is not the GOAT, or better put, he's not my GOAT. Yes he was great, out of this world, but the thing is, in the 80s before MJ could even come near a championship, we had these 3 teams, The Celtics, the Pistons, and the Lakers. These teams were winning championships for fun, and Jordan was no where to be seen. They all had greats, the Celtics had Parish, Larry Bird and Mchale, the Pistons had Isiah, Rodman and Dumars, and finally the Lakers had Magic Johnson, Karem Abdul Jabbar, and Worthy. All these players were winning championships in the era they competed, Jordan couldn't get near a championship playing against these guys. Remember the name of the players I listed and their teams, because now I'm going to provide their statistics. In 84-85 Lakers won over Celtics. In 85-86 Celtics won over the Rockets who had Hakem. In 86-87 Lakers won again over celtics, In 87-88 Lakers won over Pistons, In 88-89 Pistons finally won over Lakers, but Karem retired. in 89-90 Pistons won over Blazers, who had Drexler. If Jordan is GOAT, why couldn't he stop these awesome players and win? The next year 90=91 Jordan and the Chicago Bulls finally won, beating the Lakers, but as I said Karem had retired, and magic Johnson was diagnosed with HIV/aids later that same year. Also Larry bird had retired, although he would come out of retirement for the 1992 Olympic games. All these players I listed had either retired or gotten old. The Bulls beat tbe Pistons in the semis that year, but Isiah was old and retired. All MJ's championships came when all these dominant players had retired. I'm sorry MJ is not the GOAT, people have been brainwashed and accept things without asking questions. The same thing the UFC are trying to do with Jon Jones. Please don't get me wrong, Jordon was elite and up there with the very best, but all those championship rings came in an era were he had no real elites to compete against. They're great players, but not like the ones I listed.

TLDR:
In short all four of these guys are in GOAT contention, GSP, Jones, Silve, Fedor. My beef is why the UFC have excluded people like Silva and Fedor from the conversation, simply because they didnt know when it was best to retire from the sport.

Also sorry for ever comparing Jones to MJ, they are not in the same league. I just needed to make a point.

Have a nice day.
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Yes TLDR. All you had to write was "Fedor."

And, no, he didn't lose to Santos or Reyes, though those were close enough that arguments can be made. But, hey, at least we have evolved past the original claims that he lost to Gus.
 
LiQuiD42 said:
For me the GOAT is GSP. The guy was never caught in a PED scandal, avenged all his loses and challenged himself by becoming a champion at multiple weight classes. The guy was a solid ambassador for the sport, lived the martial art lifestyle and fought in an era where the rules of the sport were a lot different than they are today.
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If people disliked GSP like Jones for personal reasons here’s what they would say.

-used Vaseline in multiple fights to cheat, this was mentioned by numerous fighters in interviews he did it against.

-tapped with 2 second, tapped to strikes, lost to Hendricks

-ducked Anderson and every MW that wasn’t a one eyed 40 year old and didn’t defend afterwards.

-Gassed in the second round and had a suspicious PED pot belly under USADA

-Also used the need to bulk up for 6-7 years to fight MW excuse (same as Jon).

-Retired to duck a rematch with Hendricks who beat him, also ducked Hendricks and called out Nick Diaz instead hoping Hendricks would lose. Also tried to sabotage the Hendricks fight with the VADA WADA stuff.

-Retired to avoid USADA

-when wanting to be tested against Hendricks he wanted to know all the stuff he was being tested for and the exact time and place he would be tested (while wanting it to be random for his opponent) this was all documented in emails.

-had a lawyer tell Nick Diaz and his team he didn’t make championship weight and in any other case a fighter would have only one chance to make it hit GSP got 2 chances and didn’t make championship weight (but they made up some rule Canadian rule for it). This was all recorded by team Diaz. Not just some bs.

Fortunately GSP is a pretty respected guy that isn’t polarizing so he gets zero criticisms by most. GSP is fine as a GOAT choice. Just pointing out that he would be picked at more for things if he was polarizing.
 
AfroBanana said:
-had a lawyer tell Nick Diaz and his team he didn’t make championship weight and in any other case a fighter would have only one chance to make it hit GSP got 2 chances and didn’t make championship weight (but they made up some rule Canadian rule for it). This was all recorded by team Diaz. Not just some bs.
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He also sent a spy to Diaz's camp, and drugged him.
 
Ginja_Ninja said:
Didn't read all that but I'm still going GSP

Right now I wouldn't put his HW paper title run as any better than GSP's MW title.
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It's not better, Gane was never the champion. Think what you will of Bisping but he beat the undisputed champion and defended his belt.
 
NoBiasJustMMA said:
It's not better, Gane was never the champion. Think what you will of Bisping but he beat the undisputed champion and defended his belt.
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At that point anyone in the top 12 could beat Bisping baring a fluke. He didn’t fight a single legit contender. Rockhold was well arrogant in that fight frankly but still he did legit beat the champion.

He didn’t fight Jacare, Mousasi, Rob, Yoel or any of the many killers. He fought 46 year old Hendo and squeaked by and GSP who hadn’t fought in many years.

Then when he faced a fringe top 10 MW in Kelvin he got absolutely dusted. You cannot say in good faith everyone in the top 12 of HW beats Gane outside of him getting a lucky KO on someone chinny.

Based on this same logic Bisping is a higher quality win than Tom…….. Gane and Tom are better. Everyone in the top 10-12 division vs Bisping was. They don’t have a long list of contenders that would be heavily favored over them.

Gane, Tom and Jon are better interims than Bisping was a lineal.
 
AfroBanana said:
At that point anyone in the top 12 could beat Bisping baring a fluke. He didn’t fight a single legit contender. Rockhold was well arrogant in that fight frankly but still he did legit beat the champion.

He didn’t fight Jacare, Mousasi, Rob, Yoel or any of the many killers. He fought 46 year old Hendo and squeaked by and GSP who hadn’t fought in many years.

Then when he faced a fringe top 10 MW in Kelvin he got absolutely dusted. You cannot say in good faith everyone in the top 12 of HW beats Gane outside of him getting a lucky KO on someone chinny.

Based on this same logic Bisping is a higher quality win than Tom…….. Gane and Tom are better. Everyone in the top 10-12 division vs Bisping was. They don’t have a long list of contenders that would be heavily favored over them.
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Gane never beat any champion, Bisping did and was undisputed champion. Gane had no winning streak when Jones beat him Bisping was on a 5 fight winning streak and defended his title. GSP's middleweight title is far more legitimate than Jones' heavyweight title.
 
SuperNerd said:
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So you edit your post from “I’ve never seen that video” to a Joe Rogan clip.



This is not Nick and Nate talking out their asses it’s someone approaching an entire team and doing shady shit.
 
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