Movies JOKER v.3 (Dragonlord's Review)

[IamStryker]

Nah I don't think it would be that bad. We have pointed this out. I think it would be a 47 year old joker vs a 25 year old Batman. Not a big deal. Especially since joker is more ideologically opposed than physically,opposed

I hate doing math ever but let me think about this for a second. The kid in the movie looked to be about 9 years old. That would mean about 15 years to go before becoming batman. Joker in this movie couldn't be under 40 years old. That means Joker would be at least 55 years old when they meet. Maybe joker is crazy because he is also senile lol.

 

[shockaholic12]

Too little too late and even there only implied. Were they fumbled it was at the talk show scene and they holding back from him actually killing any of the sympathetic characters.

I see where you’re coming from but disagree. If he just starts just shooting randoms on the set it becomes hypocritical to the whole monologue he had just given seconds before about why it’s people like Murray who deserve it.

 

[Huhla]

TDK Joker's motivations are clear, The Joker literally explains why he does what he does, the only thing they don't explain is his past. There's layers that you seem to have missed. Leaving his background a mystery in TDK is intentional, not an oversight. He's written as the ideological opposite of Batman and the line about the world burning is to show Batman that he couldn't handle Joker the way he has others because he doesn't have typical motivations which is what Batman needed to understand because he couldn't figure him out.

You're comparing a character study to a film featuring a fully fledged character, it's like comparing an apple to a grapefruit and saying it's a shitty fruit because it's not tart enough. Or, for a more specific example, complaining that the first Star Wars sucked because we don't know everything about Vader's past.

The problem I have with this Joker is that he's painted as a down on his luck sympathetic character. Any iteration of the Joker I've seen shows him as a highly competent albeit disturbed individual but he isn't even hinted at as highly competent in this movie even after he starts coming into his own, which, no matter how disturbed, that intelligence doesn't simply develop, it should have already been there and we should've seen shades of it. I needed to believe at the end that this was the beginning of a mastermind who could challenge Batman, what I got was a fairly average mentally ill guy who snapped and wanted people to stop being meanie heads to him. That doesn't work for me, especially after the brilliance that was TDK. If it does for you, that's fine, your enjoyment of the movie doesn't hurt my feelers.

I appreciate the hell out of this layout of ideas

I agree with the idea that they forgot the evil mastermind IQ, if they added batman later down the line it would have been like beating up a homeless gang leader

 

[Huhla]

Not that there's anything wrong with that since there have been a few comic spinoffs that have played with the idea of reducing superpowered villains to normal people - usually so the heros can overdo it on the justice and everyone gets to wallow in the both-sidism and chain-smoke cigarettes and reflect on the banality of violent crime-fighting a violent criminal

 

[IamStryker]

If this hasn't been posted yet I would like to point out that Gary Gulman is the real life comedian that was doing a set before Arthur went up to do his. I recognized his face and his voice which is impressive considering I first saw him on last comic standing season 2 and really haven't seen him perform since then. He's a great comedian. Good choice for this movie.



Oh and I also noticed Brian Callen as one of his clown buddies but most of you probably noticed him as well.

 

[DM1982]

Just noticed the girl is Domino from Deadpool 2.

Hold up.

We've got a real genius up in this thread.

Cant wait for your next pearl of wisdom.....

Spoiler

Oh my God, did you guys know the guy who played Joker is the same guy that played the villain in Gladiator!!!

 

[Amerikuracana]

Critics thought zombieland and the last Jedi were better films than Joker.

 

[chrisdiaz]

After all the hype I was left a bit disappointed. I think I was expecting a bit more of a gangster type film. Dont get me wrong the movie was good, just not what I was expecting. I will be rewatching it soon to give a better opinion.

 

[Ogata]

That would be pretty cool. The age thing threw me off a bit. This guy couldn't be joker on that one single factor. He would be over 60 years old by the time batman even arrived.

In the movie he wrote in his journal:

I hope my life makes more cents.

I saw that not as a illiterate man but a man who wishes for his death to have value or worth, hence the cent not sense.

I was assuming the lead up of Arthur's death was inspiring a truly capable man who is in fact the person that becomes the true purple coat wearing joker.

In the metaphor of MMA. Jose pele was considered the original Anderson Silva. But he was only a prototype. Never the less he inspired Anderson since we needed him to see Anderson to come in to this own.

 

[minute bull]

Too little too late and even there only implied. Were they fumbled it was at the talk show scene and they holding back from him actually killing any of the sympathetic characters.

The great and simultaneously frustrating thing about an unreliable narrator is we never know for sure what's real; to your point, there's also the possibility he's murdered Sophie and her daughter.

We ought to take into account the closing scene makes it possible that the entire film is *the joke* that makes him laugh to himself. His age, relative to Batman's, might be problematic -- until we open ourselves to a canonical trait: Joker as one who is obsessed with Batman. Is he thereby fabricating a concurrent history wherein both Batman and Joker are born at the exact same moment? When he reads his mother's hospital report he is able to envision himself in the past -- but at his current age; it's possible Arthur is merely a projection of Joker's current self into his multiple-choice history.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Critics thought zombieland and the last Jedi were better films than Joker.

You know I'm about as far from an alt right poster as you'll get here but the last couple of years film reviewing has I think clearly been politicised, its probably going hand in hand with biases for certain studios but the tolerance for films reviewers consider "problematic" has dropped considerably whilst the clumsiest and most cynical "woke" cinema is praised by previously credible reviewers. I notice it in a lot of the end of decade lists we've had recently from the likes of Indiewire and the Guardian and how they've changed relative to their half decade lists.

It does seem like politics in cinema is shifting towards preaching to the choir rather than accepting anything with a bit of challenge to it. I mean its not like this film justifies the Jokers position is it? I'd argue what it actually does it show us events in a way that the Joker himself would think justifies his actions whilst we can see he's both an "unreliable narrator" and a mentally ill man who massively overreacts to many situations he's in. I mean really I think that does a far better job of undermining the moral position of such a character than simply having him as a simple villain would.

 

[TheRuthlessOne]

You're putting too much effort into discussing the impact of a comic book movie

 

[Tanaka]

Watched it last night. The third act was great but I felt like the first two could have been better. Some of the twists and turns were set up in a way that I feel actually diminished the impact upon reveal. Like everyone says Phoenix was great and watching his performance is definitely the selling point of the movie.

 

[LEWIS540]

This right here is my only gripe with the film, we never saw the Joker looking and being this evil.

That guy was not an evil character......far from it in fact.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

That guy was not an evil character......far from it in fact.

I can imagine that the MO of the production might well have been "make the kind of film the joker himself would make to justify his position". So you end up with a story that shows the character as relatable in some ways but also both an unreliable narrator and obviously as a mentally ill man who overreacts to situations he's put in.

Rather than creating a film from a perspective obviously hostile to the character instead allow the character to undermine his own position.

 

[JohnRam87]

Spoiler

I wish Bryan Callen had more lines.

Spoiler

Plays male stripper. Does not strip.
Two thumbs down
1/10

The movie itself was fantastic, beautiful shot. Joaquin is an amazing Arthur/Joker. Wish they hadn’t cut some things that made their way through BTS pics and footage leading up to he film. Overall a must watch and I just might go for a third round to enjoy again AND count the super rats (I saw 2 in the first go).

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

Loved it. Phoenix was excellent. I managed to avoid most of the spoilers and I was really happy with the way this movie went. Really showed how deep these characters are and why the typical comic book movie doesn't do them justice.

Giving Joker a real movie to explore his backstory showed why this character is so popular and affecting. The film did a great job of getting you right to the point of sympathising with Joker and then pulling the rug out from under you.

I can totally see why the left wing twitter mob hated it and review bombed it though. It isn't an incel movie, it's an antifa/occcupy Wall Street movie that expose the under belly and ugliness of left wing victim culture and how it poisons the minds of mentally ill people and gives them a deeper sense of purpose.

 

[minute bull]

Miles Morales' Dad:

You have to say I love you back.

 

[Ogata]

This right here is my only gripe with the film, we never saw the Joker looking and being this evil.

True but for me that doesn't bother me since he and batman are supposed to be the opposite of the same coin. Both started off as innocent but through trauma both became the people they are. One is evil but jovial. The other is stoic but morally sound. The thing that bothered me is...Jokers incompetence!

Ideally joker has always been portrayed as capable and skilled in various aspects of life. Now I would 100 percent understand this if we see a sequel of Arthur Fleck mentoring or influencing a very intelligent and capable young man who would become the true joker.

The ending of the movie is weak if there is no sequel but if they make a sequel of Arthur Fleck and him being the catalyst for the true joker then that would be perfect. Arthur is the original without a doubt but he is not the true representation of the character but rather a prototype.

 

[I'm Not A Nugget]

I thought the funniest part of the movie was when he was smoking a cig outside the hospital being questioned by the cops he goes to walk back into the hospital and.....