Isn't it funny how the 1 thing PRIDE vs UFC nerds agreed on was Spider was overrated?

[vorpalraddish]

Ya' got a like a link showing UFC and Pride fans agreeing on this back then?

I was fairly confident Leben was going to get picked apart by Anderson, and I'm surprised anyone would think differently at the time.

 

[snoop dogg***]

Not at all. You're mix matching quotes (thats besides the point, because I wans't insinuating you don't have one, I was laughing at the fact you higlighted that single word and ignored the rest of my post, nice one Sherlock). The problem I was talking about in that original post was you (or majority of MMA fans in 2012-2013) not knowing what you were talking about or knowing anything about the origins of the sport. Hence your question....

Why is Fedor the greatest?

You inquired which was to insinuate you didn't have an answer to your problem, I told you to go educate yourself and you started taking it personal, etc. If you've been watching MMA since 2009, well, that's apart of your problem in regards to this now isn't it? If you don't know anything about the sport before hand, that's your fault.

Don't expect to understand or be able to partake in conversations that discuss the sport prior to 2009!? I guess?



Jesus Christ you are fucking dumb, lol.

You obviously take this way too seriously lol.

 

[afrdzak]

How anyone could not see how Fedor is in the GOAT discussion is either ignorant or trolling. The same would hold for Anderson and GSP.

Hell, cases could be made for a bevy of fighters including Aldo, Royce, Hughes, Liddell/Wand/Hendo/Shogun/Rampage/Jones (the LHW round robin), and even Mega Megu!

It's completely subjective in the end, so there is no "right" answer.

Some fighters retire before their time has come, so they don't incur additional losses. Others go well past their prime and lose. Does that make them less of a fighter than if they would have retired earlier and thus not incurred additional losses?

It's a young sport. In a short time we've witnessed multiple eras. Some fighters have spanned those eras. Others existed within one era or another.

People like to retroactively trash these fighters' opposition, but that can be done for everyone.

For every Zulu/HMC you have a Leites/Bonnar. For every Hendo/Werdum/BigFoot you have Takase/Chonnan/Azeredo.

Plus people need to consider who the fights were against at the time. Especially as it relates to HW and MW....both of which are consistently known as the two most talent lacking divisions historically.

 

[MMAsFinest]

TS is silly because even in Brazil, they don't think Anderson is the GOAT.

http://portaldovaletudo.com.br/br/n...-anderson-em-enquete-sobre-melhor-da-história

For whatever reason, there's always a desire to believe that whoever's hottest act out now is greatest thing that has ever existed in the history of that field. Lil Wayne in rap, Kobe Bryant or LeBron James in basketball, Pacquiao (pre-4th Marquez fight) or Mayweather in boxing, Peyton Manning in football, and the so forth. Such people are ignorant of history and latch on the new because they had the benefit of witnessing it themselves. That's all.

The Anderson Silva claim has simply grown a tad stronger because the promoter of the sport's current top promotion states as much and brand loyalty. Still...

Even Anderson himself doesn't believe that shit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppIbcRAVIek

 

[MMA Fan 505**]

How anyone could not see how Fedor is in the GOAT discussion is either ignorant or trolling. The same would hold for Anderson and GSP.

Apparently there's only a current GOAT because the second you lose, all your past accomplishments are null and void.

It's unfortunate.

Some fans claim Fedor can't be in the running for GOAT status because he ended his career on losses, but they fail to take into account everything that came before it.

Some fans claim Anderson can't be in the running for GOAT status because he isn't fighting the guys they claim are the best this moment, but fail to take into account he had already fought the best guys when they were considered the best guys.

Some fans claim GSP can't be in the running for GOAT status because he lost to Serra and doesn't throw caution to the wind with no regards for his personal safety or well-being, but fail to take into account that GSP dominates everyone he faces and has cleaned out the division more than once.

Same goes for every single fighter who has ever lost.

The only guys who are good are the ones who are currently winning. The second they lose, they won't be good, will be exposed and have all their past accomplishments down played, and they will be replaced by whoever is winning at the moment.

Then repeat.

 

[strict9]

Sorry bud, Fedor isn't the GOAT, even top 5.

Werdum would argue this
Bigfoot would argue this
Henderson would argue this

He beat some great HW's but no where near compiled a case to be the best ever.

This has got to be one of the dumbest arguments on this subject I have ever read. So you are saying can't be the GOAT because Takase, Chonan and Azerado would have something to say about it. And Chuck can not be in the discussion because Rashad, Shogun and Franklin would argue against it. Fighters are better at certain points in their career and a couple losses does not take erase the better part of their career.

I believe that Fedor is the GOAT and I don't have a problem with anyone saying that Silva is, but saying that either of them are not at the top is really fucking stupid.

 

[MMAsFinest]

Plus people need to consider who the fights were against at the time. Especially as it relates to HW and MW....both of which are consistently known as the two most talent lacking divisions historically.

In HW's case, that was only true for UFC. Pride always had an incredible HW division.

MW never had equivalents of Fedor, Nogueira, Barnett, Mirko, Coleman, and Vovchanchyn.

Some fans claim Anderson can't be in the running for GOAT status because he isn't fighting the guys they claim are the best this moment, but fail to take into account he had already fought the best guys when they were considered the best guys.

Honestly, my biggest issue isn't him not fighting the best of the moment, but that outside of Henderson, the guys he fought were never the best. They were just the best his laughably poor division had to offer. I've always felt he should've either went to LHW or WW. MW is simply full of people who aren't cut out for either on account of being too slow (WW) or too weak (LHW).

 

[MMA Fan 505**]

Honestly, my biggest issue isn't him not fighting the best of the moment, but that outside of Henderson, the guys he fought were never the best. They were just the best his laughably poor division had to offer. I've always felt he should've either went to LHW or WW. MW is simply full of people who aren't cut out for either on account of being too slow (WW) or too weak (LHW).

But you could make that case for ANYONE.

It's unfair to discount Anderson Silva by saying he didn't fight anyone good or the same size, just like it's unfair to discount Fedor for fighting Randleman, Coleman, TK, Rogers, Choi and GSP for fighting Hardy, BJ, Serra, etc.

But those are silly reasons to discount all these men's great careers. At the time that they fought them, the guys they were fighting were good, and more often than not, the reason we don't view those opponents as good anymore is because after they were beaten, they were trash apparently.

If you look at it without bias, it shouldn't be difficult to see how some think Anderson, Fedor and GSP are the GOATS, for their own reasons. They all have a case, every single one of them.

 

[Boom_Ba_Ye]

Sorry bud, Fedor isn't the GOAT, even top 5.

Werdum would argue this
Bigfoot would argue this
Henderson would argue this

He beat some great HW's but no where near compiled a case to be the best ever.

This is like saying Anderson isn't even Top 5 GOAT.

Azeredo would argue this.
Takase would argue this.
Chonan would argue this.


I know which 3 fighters I would rather lose to.

 

[Boom_Ba_Ye]

Ya' got a like a link showing UFC and Pride fans agreeing on this back then?

I was fairly confident Leben was going to get picked apart by Anderson, and I'm surprised anyone would think differently at the time.

In 06, Anderson was 18 months removed from getting beaten by Ryo Chonnan. It's easy to see why some at the time who never really watched him fight would have said that.

Anderson just didn't perform in PRIDE despite having a huge reputation coming in. He was clearly beaten by Takase and Chonan and he got a gift decision over Otsuka. He was still an incredible talent even back then but he just didn't have the success in PRIDE that he should have had.

 

[vorpalraddish]

In 06, Anderson was 18 months removed from getting beaten by Ryo Chonnan. It's easy to see why some at the time who never really watched him fight would have said that.

Anderson just didn't perform in PRIDE despite having a huge reputation coming in. He was clearly beaten by Takase and Chonan and he got a gift decision over Otsuka. He was still an incredible talent even back then but he just didn't have the success in PRIDE that he should have had.

I can totally understand TUFers and strict UFC fans at the time believing Leben would take Anderson. Leben was on a tear and Anderson was virtually unknown over here.

But Anderson had already showed phenomenal striking and it's not like Leben is known for his grappling, which was Anderson's only perceived weakness at the time.

At the time I remember thinking Leben was gonna' get done like Newton.

 

[MMAsFinest]

But you could make that case for ANYONE.

It's unfair to discount Anderson Silva by saying he didn't fight anyone good or the same size, just like it's unfair to discount Fedor for fighting Randleman, Coleman, TK, Rogers, Choi and GSP for fighting Hardy, BJ, Serra, etc.

Randleman, Coleman, and BJ were all UFC Champions. UFC granted Serra that title shot by virtue of TUF. GSP didn't ask for it. Rogers was coming off a brutal destruction of Arlovski.

I have no qualms with anyone fighting what's put in front of you. I have an issue with someone fighting in a pathetic division and refusing to go up in weight after proving that they can do so.

But those are silly reasons to discount all these men's great careers. At the time that they fought them, the guys they were fighting were good, and more often than not, the reason we don't view those opponents as good anymore is because after they were beaten, they were trash apparently.

Speak for yourself. I'm not discounting anyone's entire career nor did I ever believe the guys Silva fought were good except Hendo. Below average to above average? Sure. Good? No.

If you look at it without bias, it shouldn't be difficult to see how some think Anderson, Fedor and GSP are the GOATS, for their own reasons. They all have a case, every single one of them.

Oh, I understand why people think that about Anderson. That doesn't mean I have to agree with it.

 

[TheKnightMare]

Fedor is still the GOAT.

He disagrees.

 

[boron gracie]

The thing is anderson didnt do to bad in pride he still had a winning record over there and he defeated the top fighters of pride in his division but lost to the guys he should have defeated, so here at least you can say he just needed more experience.

 

[Phoenix Down]

He disagrees.

He's on his way, no doubt. But there yet? Nope, not yet.

I did a breakdown of the GOAT's and their life span (inception of first career win to death via; first loss) and Fedor has half a decade or more of domination and surviving on his record over everyone else in the discussion.

That said....

As of this moment, 2013, Jon Jones is the only man left alive in the GOAT discussion.

He has never been murdered, and he's truly the last man standing in the GOAT discussion.

But, he still has not surpassed Fedor. He'll pass GSP / Silva / Aldo first. Fedor went 10 years without dying, GSP went like 2, Aldo went like 1, etc. I think Silva / Jones (Jones still going up though, Silva is dead already, and has been for a long, long time) are close with 4-5. I'd have to go over the records again.

 

[John015]

This is gonna piss off some Pride fans (and I consider myself a pretty big Pride fan) but has anyone ever wondered if Anderson participated in any fixed matches? That's the one thing I hate about Pride...it makes me question its legitimacy. I know that most of the fights were legit but still....

 

[Phoenix Down]

This is gonna piss off some Pride fans (and I consider myself a pretty big Pride fan) but has anyone ever wondered if Anderson participated in any fixed matches? That's the one thing I hate about Pride...it makes me question its legitimacy. I know that most of the fights were legit but still....

Silva fans: Yeah, all of his loses were fixed.

Silva haters: Yeah, all of his wins were fixed.

Great discussion you've opened up here.

 

[MMApick**]

Sakuraba is the GOAT and it's not even close.

Anderson hiding several weight classes below his natural weight will never get him anywhere near past the Sakuraba's, Fedor's, BJ Penn's, or even Machida's and or CC's legacies.

Nate Marquardt knocks out Maia in 20 seconds, and Anderson loses to him under PRIDE rules?

Sonnen can't even get out of the first round with Maia, and yet makes Anderson look like helpless child for 95% of their cage time together (the 2nd fight Anderson needs to resort to blatant cheating).

Nope, not even close Anderson.

If JJ stays undefeated and moves up to HW and cleans up there, he will have surpassed most fighters (and I'm not even a JJ fan, just calling it how I see it).

 

[Rod Farva]

Fedor for me is the best. He beat so many guys at their own game

 

[dieknowsore]

Nate Marquardt knocks out Maia in 20 seconds, and Anderson loses to him under PRIDE rules?

holy shit give it a break, anderson clowned maia for 5 rounds like a little kid.


what the fuck were you watching?