Crime Is this because of racism while also driving racism?

[Striker Fox]

High testosterone+low IQ = violent crime/smash-and-grab mentality

 

[Axefan4life]

Well you came into this thread saying (and I've never called anyone a POS):



TS isn't exactly left leaning, and it's not exactly the ideal place where I want to talk about race but I digress.

What makes black crime stand out from the rest (if poverty isn't one of the main reasons)? You can't make a post like that and leave.

PS - If I wanted to "attack" you, don't you think I (or anyone else) would've done that by now?

Plenty of people are poor, actually large segments of other ethic groups are poor, yet the statistics,especially murders, are far higher with that particular ethic group. At what point do people who lean left on this issue put any of the responsibility on said ethic group. I understand it goes further than just being "black" and it's a complicated issue, but it gets hard to have any kind of discussion when one side can never seem to budge from their position of blaming outside factors, while at the same time seemingly ignoring any self inflicted factors that play into these issues.

Just once acknowledge something they need to fix themselves that wasn't someone else's fault would be a start.

*Ethnic. Autocorrect

 

[irish_thug]

In the U.S., there is a race related element because of the history surrounding discrimination both in terms of jobs, housing, etc. but I have no idea if that applies to the UK.

Yup

 

[lifelessheap]

Because impoverished whites tend to be rural. Urban culture is a different discussion. Its still about class.




Agree somewhat. It definitely is a factor.

Urban culture or urban black culture? Are there no poor whites in cities?


Stop making excuses. Excuses are harmful because you cannot identify problems when you lie to yourself. Broken black families caused by welfare. There is the problem.

 

[Striker Fox]

Poverty, population density = increased crime rates.

What if it's crime that leads to poverty?


And why do we want more immigration at this point when higher population density means increased crime rates? Trump bless?

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

It's really not that complicated. Poverty, population density = increased crime rates. Criminals tend to target people close to them. Murderers tend to kill people they know. Most murders also tend to be between people who are already involved in criminal activity.

Basically, if (and I don't know if this is true) the black population in London is concentrated in the city limits and not the suburbs and they are poorer than the average then you should expect there to be higher crime rates in those communities.

People will make it about race related things but it's not. It's a byproduct of cities and poverty.

In the U.S., there is a race related element because of the history surrounding discrimination both in terms of jobs, housing, etc. but I have no idea if that applies to the UK.

That could explain some of it but it persists even when you account for poverty.
Blacks are more violent everywhere in the world when you have a clear comparison.
The minorities in the UK are black and south asian.
Both are equally poor and live in similar areas, in fact, black caribbeans are wealthier than south asians, but are more violent. South Asians commit more crime than Whites but less than blacks.
Latinos are the poorest group in the US, they commit more crimes than whites but less than blacks.
On the other hand, latinos are more violent in latin america than blacks in Africa, if statistics in some of these african countries are reliable.
Of course, latino doesn't mean much, many of these are black, some are white too, but it seems the most violent countries are indigenous and mestizo.

That's just considering western(ish) countries, if you compare Africa and Asia, for example, Africa is clearly more criminally violent, even when you include people living in abject poverty in slums in India or Bangladesh.
India has a murder rate below the US, it's around 3. It has a gdp of 2k per capita. It's extremely densely populated.
South Africa has a gdp of 6.6k per capita. It has a murder rate over 30.

 

[cunglaowins]

Blacks are more violent everywhere in the world when you have a clear comparison.

That's just considering western(ish) countries, if you compare Africa and Asia, for example, Africa is clearly more criminally violent, even when you include people living in abject poverty in slums in India or Bangladesh.
India has a murder rate below the US, it's around 3. It has a gdp of 2k per capita. It's extremely densely populated.
South Africa has a gdp of 6.6k per capita. It has a murder rate over 30.

Indian men are probably the least violent people I've known. I've never felt threatened by one, never seen one exhibiting out of control anger, never seen any disorderly conduct, never seen one arrested.

 

[Seano]

Urban culture or urban black culture? Are there no poor whites in cities?

black urban culture but I was trying to point out that everyone has their issues.

Stop making excuses. Excuses are harmful because you cannot identify problems when you lie to yourself. Broken black families caused by welfare. There is the problem.

So.... economic class then?

 

[nac386]

black urban culture but I was trying to point out that everyone has their issues.
So.... economic class then?

Your point about where the majority of poor people live is a good one. Poor whites tend to live in rural areas, and poor blacks tend to live in urban areas. Poor urban areas have high crime rates, while poor rural areas have high overdose rates. People in rural areas do not form gangs because there are hardly any people to compete with.

So yeah, murder rates lean heavily towards the inner cities where poor black people live mostly due to concentrated gang violence. Meanwhile, the rate of opioid overdose for white people is 150% of the rate for black people and 280% of the rate for Hispanics. It doesn't mean white people just love opioids. All people love opioids, it's part of the way brains function. The overdose rate just a result of their environment, not their nature being significantly different than blacks or Hispanics.

People say that culture is the problem. Of course it is, but that culture is a symptom of class and location.

 

[WTF2008]

Your point about where the majority of poor people live is a good one. Poor whites tend to live in rural areas, and poor blacks tend to live in urban areas. Poor urban areas have high crime rates, while poor rural areas have high overdose rates. People in rural areas do not form gangs because there are hardly any people to compete with.

So yeah, murder rates lean heavily towards the inner cities where poor black people live mostly due to concentrated gang violence. Meanwhile, the rate of opioid overdose for white people is 150% of the rate for black people and 280% of the rate for Hispanics. It doesn't mean white people just love opioids. All people love opioids, it's part of the way brains function. The overdose rate just a result of their environment, not their nature being significantly different than blacks or Hispanics.

People say that culture is the problem. Of course it is, but that culture is a symptom of class and location.

So it's ok to say that white people overdose on opioids more.
But not ok to say black people form gangs and kill each other more.

Even though that's what the statistics say?
Statistics are racist?

Are there any inner city white gangs killing each other or outer city blacks overdosing on opioids?

Is it possible that different races actually do have different behaviors?

 

[panamaican]

What if it's crime that leads to poverty?

Well, it's not. The people who study this have all pretty much come to the same conclusion. Poverty (especially wealth/income inequality in close proximity to each other) combined with high population densities (which you tend to find in cities) leads to crime.

There's nothing really left to speculate at this point on that relationship. It's race neutral. Where you might race related variables are in how you end up with that poverty or income inequality or in who ends up living in cities and/or living near each other.

In the U.S., for example, discrimination and segregation during and immediately after slavery meant that the black population was going to be significantly poorer than their counterparts. So, there's a race element. Additionally, because of the history of redlining and other types of housing discrimination, you end up with black people, regardless of income being restricted to only a few areas to live - that's the race element. Poverty, high proximal income inequality, and high population density, ergo higher crime.

None of this is remotely controversial since it's well studied around the world, not just in the U.S. or the U.K. Where people rebel against it is that they prefer the narrative where it's something intrinsic to a group of people that leads to crime and not the reality that it's something intrinsic to the economic environment that leads to crime.

 

[nac386]

So it's ok to say that white people overdose on opioids more.
But not ok to say black people form gangs and kill each other more.

Even though that's what the statistics say?
Statistics are racist?

I literally just said both of those things.

Are there any inner city white gangs killing each other or outer city blacks overdosing on opioids?

Is it possible that different races actually do have different behaviors?

Yes, there are white gangs that kill people. Yes, there are black people who overdose on opioids.

 

[Scheme]

Poverty does not strongly correlate with homicide rate in America (compare the graphs from 1942 on as that's where they start):

So there goes that hypothesis that half the posters here are proposing

Maybe it's hip hop culture and glorifying gangs, murder, drugs, prostitution, etc?

 

[panamaican]

That could explain some of it but it persists even when you account for poverty.
Blacks are more violent everywhere in the world when you have a clear comparison.
The minorities in the UK are black and south asian.
Both are equally poor and live in similar areas, in fact, black caribbeans are wealthier than south asians, but are more violent. South Asians commit more crime than Whites but less than blacks.
Latinos are the poorest group in the US, they commit more crimes than whites but less than blacks.
On the other hand, latinos are more violent in latin america than blacks in Africa, if statistics in some of these african countries are reliable.
Of course, latino doesn't mean much, many of these are black, some are white too, but it seems the most violent countries are indigenous and mestizo.

That's just considering western(ish) countries, if you compare Africa and Asia, for example, Africa is clearly more criminally violent, even when you include people living in abject poverty in slums in India or Bangladesh.
India has a murder rate below the US, it's around 3. It has a gdp of 2k per capita. It's extremely densely populated.
South Africa has a gdp of 6.6k per capita. It has a murder rate over 30.

Nothing in your post addresses the full range of variables, particularly high income inequality in close proximity to each other.

If you have some data somewhere showing that countries with low income inequality or countries/cities where the black population is not economically behind the white population without a history of colonial intervention and that black crime is still significantly higher in those countries then I would be very interested in reading it.

Basically find me a country without economic tension between blacks, hispanics and whites where the black crime rate is still significantly higher because that would, obviously, contradict what all of the people who study this are saying.

 

[Roaming East]

Urban culture or urban black culture? Are there no poor whites in cities?


Stop making excuses. Excuses are harmful because you cannot identify problems when you lie to yourself. Broken black families caused by welfare. There is the problem.

white urban poor are why RICO laws exist. There was literally so many crimes being committed by urban whites that an extremely specific set of laws and an entire wing of government enforcement was created to deal with it.

 

[n...not crazy]

It's really not that complicated. Poverty, population density = increased crime rates. Criminals tend to target people close to them. Murderers tend to kill people they know. Most murders also tend to be between people who are already involved in criminal activity.

Basically, if (and I don't know if this is true) the black population in London is concentrated in the city limits and not the suburbs and they are poorer than the average then you should expect there to be higher crime rates in those communities.

People will make it about race related things but it's not. It's a byproduct of cities and poverty.

In the U.S., there is a race related element because of the history surrounding discrimination both in terms of jobs, housing, etc. but I have no idea if that applies to the UK.

Everything is complicated. I don't believe there's a single cause problem in all the land. I'm not cracking on you, but IMO there is very rarely a "bottom line" cause. Shit's crazy, and with anything racial we're not going to know all the facts. People don't even want to talk about physical differences between races. Everyone gets uncomfortable. We're about 1,000 years away from being able to have a discussion of psychological differences. Do they exist? Idk - not much science out there. So I have no idea.

Anyhoo... Culture, race, economics, sociology, politics, genetics, yaddah yaddah. No way this is a 1-cause problem.

 

[uppercutbus]

Poverty does not strongly correlate with homicide rate in America (compare the graphs from 1942 on as that's where they start)

Indeed poverty doesn't make people murderers but we see a particular pattern repeated all over the world with blacks. Leftists try and muddy the waters doubling down on how complex, inputting colonialism and the kitchen sink etc. when the pattern is right there in front of them.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

Nothing in your post addresses the full range of variables, particularly high income inequality in close proximity to each other.

If you have some data somewhere showing that countries with low income inequality or countries/cities where the black population is not economically behind the white population without a history of colonial intervention and that black crime is still significantly higher in those countries then I would be very interested in reading it.

Basically find me a country without economic tension between blacks, hispanics and whites where the black crime rate is still significantly higher because that would, obviously, contradict what all of the people who study this are saying.

Of course it doesn't address the full range of variables, that would be a PhD level thesis.
My point is mainly that there are other groups who are disadvantaged, live in cities and are not as violent. South Asians in the UK, mainly, but increasingly latinos in the US.

From the CDC, it shows homicide deaths by race. Not murder rate but it closely resembles that as most murders are from people in their own race.
Do I believe poverty plays a role? Yes a huge one, that's probably the reason why hispanics, the poorest group in the USA, have a homicide death rate double that of whites. I do not think it can explain, alone, why blacks have 8-10x that rate.
Do I believe that programs to combat inequality and poverty can help crime among black areas? Absolutely.

 

[squeezewax]

Maybe the fact that there are a lot of blacks in American prisons isn't about racism but possibly about black culture and bad lifestyle choices?

 

[Andy Capp]

If you or anyone else tries to say black people are just naturally predisposed to commit more crime you're an idiot and shouldn't be allowed to have children.

And that's all I'm going to say about that.