Is there any bias against no-gi grapplers?

[davejitsu]

No-Gi is simply not considered BJJ by most Brazilian instructors

 

[crochuck]

All I know is if I get paired up with another guy in wrestling shoes next No-Gi tournament I go to I'm throwing knees.

 

[Freezing Winds**]

I'm not getting into a gi vs no-gi thing again.

wow, don't join the debate team, they will also expect you to have facts to back up your crazy claims.

 

[Normot]

Judging by the posts here, for some people, there are some biases.

 

[JerseyTrash]

Or instead of being a dick, maybe you can understand a lot of HS wrestlers enjoy no gi jiujitsu. I don't like clothing hindering me, it drives me crazy. I've only done no gi because it appealed to me more based on my background and I'm sure it's the same way for a lot of no gi guys. They're probably ex wrestlers, and/or don't give a shit about the TMA mentality.

That said, I'm going to start training in a Gi once a week, looks fun and heard it will help my no gi game.

I stand by what I said. No gi classes are full of guys who have watched too many UFC events and think that they're going to be pro fighters themselves soon. Most have Tapout rashguards and "extreme" haircuts and lots of shitty tattoos. Most of them don't even last 6 months.

 

[DiscipleOfPog]

Who cares if they recognize it, the skills you have are the skills you have.

 

[Alaskantkdkid]

Trolls these days are getting 50+ posts?

 

[redaxe]

I stand by what I said. No gi classes are full of guys who have watched too many UFC events and think that they're going to be pro fighters themselves soon. Most have Tapout rashguards and "extreme" haircuts and lots of shitty tattoos. Most of them don't even last 6 months.

Yeah I have noticed that no-gi classes are usually much less formal than gi classes and lack the discipline aspect of the martial art. I don't really like rolling no-gi with guys I've never met before because the percentage of spazzes and self-proclaimed "leglock specialists" is way too high.

 

[JerseyTrash]

Yeah I have noticed that no-gi classes are usually much less formal than gi classes and lack the discipline aspect of the martial art. I don't really like rolling no-gi with guys I've never met before because the percentage of spazzes and self-proclaimed "leglock specialists" is way too high.

Every no gi class I've ever been to is full of people who won't lost the year. They don't train in the gi "because its gay". I notice they show up to our muay Thai class a lot (not on a regular basis of course). I can't name a single person who has ever gotten to any sort of level of proficiency that only trained no gi.

 

[redaxe]

Every no gi class I've ever been to is full of people who won't lost the year. They don't train in the gi "because its gay". I notice they show up to our muay Thai class a lot (not on a regular basis of course). I can't name a single person who has ever gotten to any sort of level of proficiency that only trained no gi.

I can name a few, but they are all professional MMA fighters

 

[CyberFreq]

All I know is if I get paired up with another guy in wrestling shoes next No-Gi tournament I go to I'm throwing knees.

This.

 

[georgejjr]

I currently train in no-gi Jiu-Jitsu , but some of my friends say that they wouldn't recognize it unless i was training with a gi.

Is this devaluation a common theme or just the opinion of some people?

What does 'recognize' mean? If you mean belt rank, its kind of pointless to have belts in no-gi, as you don't wear a belt. And most instructors won't grade you. On the other hand, there are no belt ranks in MMA, boxing, wrestling, or sambo, and it doesn't seem to make any difference. People still seemed to recognize Karelin as a good grappler despite not having any belt rank.

If you become good at no-gi it'll be apparent to your friends when they work out with you. If you submit them no-gi, and they still pretend you know nothing about grappling, then you're just going to laugh at them anyway.

Now if you're saying you're learning BJJ as opposed to grappling, then you have a problem, as BJJ involves a fair amount of gi work, and they could rightfully say you're a good grappler but not a BJJ guy (like Fedor, who's never taken any BJJ at all, but still is a pretty decent grappler, or Barnett, who's mainly a catch guy with a bit of BJJ on the side, but still a good grappler).

Like redaxe says, there are quite a few good no-gi only grapplers, but they're mainly in MMA.

All I know is if I get paired up with another guy in wrestling shoes next No-Gi tournament I go to I'm throwing knees.

You might want to think that through. If knees are allowed to grounded opponents wrestlers are going to do great - being able to rain down knee's to the top of the skull from N/S or side of the head from side control isn't something you want to get into if you're likely the one who's going to be on your back. People who think knees on the ground is a problem for wrestlers haven't wrestled much - they're not allowed because of the serious spinal injuries and concussions that come from knees to the top of the skull from a N/S position.

 

[JerseyTrash]

I can name a few, but they are all professional MMA fighters

Yes, and their background is something else. They just train enough jiu jitsu for defense and things like that, IE strikers who trained some grappling.

 

[dazed863]

i think no-gi grapplers are more adept at adapting to either style personally

thats about the dumbest thing i've read on here in awhile. . . .

I stand by what I said. No gi classes are full of guys who have watched too many UFC events and think that they're going to be pro fighters themselves soon. Most have Tapout rashguards and "extreme" haircuts and lots of shitty tattoos. Most of them don't even last 6 months.

i agree with this.. add also a bad attitude and prance around on a high horse of greatness that they can't back up..

but i don't think the drop out rate is any higher than in my gi class. we go through TONS of white belts... i would even go so far as to say we have lost close to 70 people since i started in our evening classes 9 months ago. we have adult green belts and it's really apparent come belt test time (we have three schools so it's the only way the head instructor can get eyes on everyone before they get belted.. it's almost a waste of time since almost everyone makes it.. but i see the reasoning behind it) when you see 70 people testing for green belt and only 8 going for blue..

 

[JerseyTrash]

thats about the dumbest thing i've read on here in awhile. . . .



i agree with this.. add also a bad attitude and prance around on a high horse of greatness that they can't back up..

but i don't think the drop out rate is any higher than in my gi class. we go through TONS of white belts... i would even go so far as to say we have lost close to 70 people since i started in our evening classes 9 months ago. we have adult green belts and it's really apparent come belt test time (we have three schools so it's the only way the head instructor can get eyes on everyone before they get belted.. it's almost a waste of time since almost everyone makes it.. but i see the reasoning behind it) when you see 70 people testing for green belt and only 8 going for blue..

Most are obsessed with 10th Planet stuff, and obsess over fancy moves like calf crushers, banana splits, and Peruvian neckties, but can't even do a basic armbar from the mount or a triangle.

 

[blindgod]

That's strange. Perhaps you were comparing higher-level no-gi grapplers to lower-level gi grapplers?

No. Both schools were run by black belts (the gi school by a sixth degree and the no-gi school by a fourth degree), and most of the students were whites and blues, with some purples and browns. The gi school has been around longer and has more high level people (a given class might have a few black belt students), but the vast majority of students in class at either school had less than five years of training.

Having spent three years at the no-gi school and two years at the gi school, the differences are as follows:

The no-gi school emphasized technical mechanics, timing, and detail.
The gi school emphasizes speed, power, and aggression.
The no-gi school emphasized pressure in passing the guard, often on the knees.
The gi school emphasizes speed in passing the guard, often on the feet.
The warm-up at the no-gi school was often technique drills (escapes, submissions, combinations of moves with little to no resistance)
The warm-up at the gi school is calesthenics (running, pushups, burpees, etc)
The average student age at the no-gi school was in the early to mid 30s.
The average student age at the gi school is mid 20s.

There are other things, but I think this gives the idea of it. The really odd thing is that my previous school only had one gi class per week, but I learned more detail about how to do basic collar chokes than similar ranked students at the gi school I go to now.

 

[fourfif**]

People who only train no gi tend to be douchebags, amateurs, or both.

Honestly, I've found the opposite to be true. At least on the internets.

 

[Kainan]

I personally don't think there's much of a bias against anyone who trains any grappling art and is respectful of the other arts. But if you train a certain style and talk trash to everyone else who doesn't then you may receive some backlash

 

[B.A. Ben Askren]

I currently train in no-gi Jiu-Jitsu , but some of my friends say that they wouldn't recognize it unless i was training with a gi.

Is this devaluation a common theme or just the opinion of some people?

Yes, but it isn't their fault (most of the time). The vast majority of no-gi guys really are just ex-wrestlers, meatheads, tough guys, etc. Does only doing no gi mean you suck? Not at all, but I'd say that someone who did "no gi" for 2 years will probably lose to your typical blue belt.
This is coming from a no gi guy, I've put on a gi maybe 10 times in all of my training. When I go to gi schools, they always ask if I've trained before, and I always go "I've done 'however long I've trained' years of no gi grappling." They always roll nod their head, listen intently, and I guarentee think to themselves, "Great, another one". I told a guy that I'd done no gi for 2 years, and he proceeded to explain to me what guard was, and how you could use it In actuallity, no gi guys can be just as good (or better) than gi guys, in no gi. I've rolled with several blues, in gi, that I've either dominated on points or tapped out. I lose to most purples in the gi by points, but these same purples (and sometimes higher belts) are the ones that I'm able to tap/control/etc. in no gi. In summary, do what floats your boat, just make sure to use technique regardless.

 

[crochuck]

What does 'recognize' mean? If you mean belt rank, its kind of pointless to have belts in no-gi, as you don't wear a belt. And most instructors won't grade you. On the other hand, there are no belt ranks in MMA, boxing, wrestling, or sambo, and it doesn't seem to make any difference. People still seemed to recognize Karelin as a good grappler despite not having any belt rank.

If you become good at no-gi it'll be apparent to your friends when they work out with you. If you submit them no-gi, and they still pretend you know nothing about grappling, then you're just going to laugh at them anyway.

Now if you're saying you're learning BJJ as opposed to grappling, then you have a problem, as BJJ involves a fair amount of gi work, and they could rightfully say you're a good grappler but not a BJJ guy (like Fedor, who's never taken any BJJ at all, but still is a pretty decent grappler, or Barnett, who's mainly a catch guy with a bit of BJJ on the side, but still a good grappler).

Like redaxe says, there are quite a few good no-gi only grapplers, but they're mainly in MMA.



You might want to think that through. If knees are allowed to grounded opponents wrestlers are going to do great - being able to rain down knee's to the top of the skull from N/S or side of the head from side control isn't something you want to get into if you're likely the one who's going to be on your back. People who think knees on the ground is a problem for wrestlers haven't wrestled much - they're not allowed because of the serious spinal injuries and concussions that come from knees to the top of the skull from a N/S position.

Umm I was making a joke about how no-gi grappling tournaments are overrun by people who don't bother with anything but wrestling. They get the take down and literally bear hug you for the rest of the match for a 2-0 win.