is there a bias against size/strength in grappling

[el_cazador]

Use all the tools at your disposal. If two opponents have equal technique/skill, the stronger man has the advantage.

I'm 235 and I use my size/strength to muscle guys and put big pressure on them. They're not only trying to overcome my technique, but have to deal with the strength as well, which gives me an advantage. But, rarely ever will I forego technique to use my strength instead.

 

[Cardio King]

go ahead and use your strength in training...you will suffer from it.
In training, roll slow and you will learn more and faster.


In a competition, roll to win.

But in said competition, you haven't practised rolling to win. You've been practising to "roll slow." How do you know if your "to win" rolling is up to par, since all you've been doing is "to learn" rolling?

 

[B3rserk3R]

But in said competition, you haven't practised rolling to win. You've been practising to "roll slow." How do you know if your "to win" rolling is up to par, since all you've been doing is "to learn" rolling?

That's basically what I was thinking. It's like in football, the teams that practice in pads less usually have more injuries and are generally softer and tire quicker. No other sport would advocate going half speed regularly.

 

[blanko]

do football teams practice like they are playing a game? Does the defence sack the quarterback at full speed? Do linebackers and dbacks hit running backs and wide receivers at full speed? NO.

 

[grdstorm11]

I didn't read through this whole thread but from my own personal experiences, it takes much more brain power to use flexibility than it does to use strength. For instance, to get out of an arm bar using strength, basically you just have to not have your arm extended (yes I know, stacking , catching the leg that goes infront of your face etc factors in) but basically if you are a super strong dude, you can stop an arm-bar attempt with little or no actual knowledge.

However if you are a flexible guy, you can't just allow your arm to be extended and to expect that your flexibility will defend your elbow from getting snapped. You have to work your way out of his arm grip, turn thumb down, wiggle above his hips etc.

It take a little more skill to be able to use your flexibility effectively opposed to smashing someone with strength.

 

[Calibur]

It take a little more skill to be able to use your flexibility effectively opposed to smashing someone with strength.

Maybe. But a lot of people will use their flexibility to get escape sidemount, or to break their opponents posture, or to get an omoplata/gogoplata from guard when in reality they aren't moving their hips properlly.

Honestly, I think strength is more reliable than flexibility. In ten years I may not be able to use the rubberguard, but I guarantee you I will be able to make a noob miserable while using my strength to pass his guard.

 

[blanko]

using flexibility to escape sidemount is a BIG CRUTCH imho. Sneaking your foot in to escape sidemount ala eddie bravo seems to be the fad these days at my club... But the fact is that they are getting lazy and not working on how to frame and shrimp properly. Usually they are fucked if i just switch to modified scarf hold...

 

[B3rserk3R]

do football teams practice like they are playing a game? Does the defence sack the quarterback at full speed? Do linebackers and dbacks hit running backs and wide receivers at full speed? NO.

In practice there might be no sacking the QB, and no one drills the skill players, but in the trenches, they play hard enough for fights to occassionally break out between teammates which says something.

 

[grdstorm11]

I think it also goes back to jiu jitsu being the "gentle art". Meaning a smaller weaker person can beat a larger stronger opponent through technique. I think we group flexibility in there with the smaller man sometimes and thats why its ok.

 

[blanko]

yea but you have to take things in relation to their sports. BJJ is a though sport, no doubt but the fights are not really fast paced unless you are fighting at galo or around galo. It's all relative. Boxers don't wail on each other like it's a fight, at least smart boxers don't if they care about their sparring partners.

Grappling and especially jiu jitsu is slower and more technical by nature.

Another reason that you should go "lighter" is it helps the noobs improve faster than if you were just kicking his ass all teh time. That's another very important reason that a team shouldn't spar all out all the time. When you rip through a whitebelt like it's a tourament then he feels like he was just hit by a hurricane for 5 min. If you slow things down he will improve cus he will be able to see/think/feel what is going on. He will be able to attempt techniques without getting discouraged and that's very important.


Look, NO ONE is saying that you should NEVER spar at full speed. Personally, i spar at full speed with guys who are my belt lvl/just higher than me (i am a three stripe blue). We go hard for 7 min and it's a drain to be honest. But even when i spar guys at my lvl, maybe i want to try a technique that has been working on low blues and whites. We would go easy and we will see each other's reactions to the techniques that we are trying to incorporate into our games. A lot of jiu jitsu is experiementing and trying things out, and going slow really helps you do that.

The best thing about jiu jitsu as compared to other combat sports is that it’s very low impact and in theory you could do it all your life. That’s very rare for a combat sport. There is a reason why even in judo clubs the “older guys” train newaza more than throws. The ground game is gentle and fluid, at least that is now jiu jitsu is.

 

[georgejjr]

do football teams practice like they are playing a game? Does the defence sack the quarterback at full speed? Do linebackers and dbacks hit running backs and wide receivers at full speed? NO.

When I played junior hockey, one of the best ways to get benched was to charge your goalie in practice, or to make him look (and feel) bad during pre-game warmups. The after game lecture wasn't much fun either :redface:

The best thing about jiu jitsu as compared to other combat sports is that it

 

[B3rserk3R]

When I played junior hockey, one of the best ways to get benched was to charge your goalie in practice, or to make him look (and feel) bad during pre-game warmups. The after game lecture wasn't much fun either :redface:

Are you serious?! I was on the wrong team, damn it. I never got charged in practice (that's a pretty dick thing to do), but in varsity one of our warm up drills basically culminated in a 2 on 0, which was no fun trying to stop.

 

[blanko]

yea but are you gonna cross check your teamate like you were in a game?

 

[B3rserk3R]

yea but you have to take things in relation to their sports. BJJ is a though sport, no doubt but the fights are not really fast paced unless you are fighting at galo or around galo. It's all relative. Boxers don't wail on each other like it's a fight, at least smart boxers don't if they care about their sparring partners.

Grappling and especially jiu jitsu is slower and more technical by nature.

Another reason that you should go "lighter" is it helps the noobs improve faster than if you were just kicking his ass all teh time. That's another very important reason that a team shouldn't spar all out all the time. When you rip through a whitebelt like it's a tourament then he feels like he was just hit by a hurricane for 5 min. If you slow things down he will improve cus he will be able to see/think/feel what is going on. He will be able to attempt techniques without getting discouraged and that's very important.


Look, NO ONE is saying that you should NEVER spar at full speed. Personally, i spar at full speed with guys who are my belt lvl/just higher than me (i am a three stripe blue). We go hard for 7 min and it's a drain to be honest. But even when i spar guys at my lvl, maybe i want to try a technique that has been working on low blues and whites. We would go easy and we will see each other's reactions to the techniques that we are trying to incorporate into our games. A lot of jiu jitsu is experiementing and trying things out, and going slow really helps you do that.

The best thing about jiu jitsu as compared to other combat sports is that it

 

[georgejjr]

Are you serious?! I was on the wrong team, damn it. I never got charged in practice (that's a pretty dick thing to do), but in varsity one of our warm up drills basically culminated in a 2 on 0, which was no fun trying to stop.

You're kidding, 2-0's in a warm-up, in which you're trying to score? :icon_cry2

As coach would drum into our heads, the warm up is to build your goalie's confidence, get him feeling in the zone for the game. If a forward has a bad game (even Gretzki) the team can still win. If the goalie has a bad game you might as well go home. You want your goalie to feel confident.

Our drill was to make the shots progressively harder, make sure they go for all the holes, but in a way that the goalie feels that's he's on top of the game. From what I've heard, the same thing happens in the pro's.

 

[stlnl2]

do football teams practice like they are playing a game? Does the defence sack the quarterback at full speed? Do linebackers and dbacks hit running backs and wide receivers at full speed? NO.

Where did you play football? I only played HS, but we were state champs and contact on contact days was FULL contact. Backs got hit, recievers got hit, it was just understood not to take a guy's head off on a crossing pattern. Also the linebackers stuffing blocking backs had no mercy, nor did pulling guards or lead fullbacks.

Football practice is a TERRIBLE example. Some coaches have little to zero contact and others have a ton of it. Except for a very few players (long snapper, kicker, QB, Punter, and star running back when he is nursing an injury) EVERYONE goes hard on contact days.

 

[B3rserk3R]

You're kidding, 2-0's in a warm-up, in which you're trying to score? :icon_cry2

As coach would drum into our heads, the warm up is to build your goalie's confidence, get him feeling in the zone for the game. If a forward has a bad game (even Gretzki) the team can still win. If the goalie has a bad game you might as well go home. You want your goalie to feel confident.

Our drill was to make the shots progressively harder, make sure they go for all the holes, but in a way that the goalie feels that's he's on top of the game. From what I've heard, the same thing happens in the pro's.

Was your coach a former goalie? I had one of those in youth hockey. Those were the days. But my HS coaches weren't at all goalie-friendly, nor that intelligent .

 

[blanko]

Where did you play football? I only played HS, but we were state champs and contact on contact days was FULL contact. Backs got hit, recievers got hit, it was just understood not to take a guy's head off on a crossing pattern. Also the linebackers stuffing blocking backs had no mercy, nor did pulling guards or lead fullbacks.

Football practice is a TERRIBLE example. Some coaches have little to zero contact and others have a ton of it. Except for a very few players (long snapper, kicker, QB, Punter, and star running back when he is nursing an injury) EVERYONE goes hard on contact days.

so we agree that you don't hit like you would hit in a game. it's the same ting, against certain people on certain days you go all out. Going hard and going all out are two different things.

maybe it wasn't the best example but anyone with common sense would kno what i'm getting at.

 

[JRT6]

I don't even use strength in practice rolling because it beats the hell out of my joints and is exhuasting.

 

[georgejjr]

Was your coach a former goalie? I had one of those in youth hockey. Those were the days. But my HS coaches weren't at all goalie-friendly, nor that intelligent .

No ... funnily enough, I don't know what position he played. Like a lot of coaches, he never made it to the NHL, and didn't regale us with (imaginary) tales of his prowess. But I think warming up goalies that way is pretty standard ... at least if you're trying to be competitive.

And of course, goalies tend to be a pretty weird group, you have to treat them with special care - the last thing anyone wants is for your teams best goalie to wake up and realize exactly what he's been doing the last few years :icon_chee