Is Tatiana Suarez Overrated?

[pcbh167]

I don't think Carla shot a single takedown against Torres. She dominated her on the feet.

I definitely remember her panic wrestling against Tecia and trying to constantly take her down, but she was struggling to take her down.

 

[pcbh167]

Well she's supposed to fight Nina if you count that as being top 5 now, but I view her as a Derek Lewis type who stumbled her way to a high rank with low skill so I'm expecting a lamb to be slaughtered without telling us anything.

Is Nina top 5? And I think Nina's really improved. I like her fighting style and she just beat Claudia, so this will be a big test of Tatiana.

 

[blaseblah]

I remember Carla was panic wrestling in that fight. Tecia's speed caused a lot of problems for her. I haven't watched that fight in a while; I've definitely got to watch it again.

Lmao a wrestler wrestling is not "panic wrestling". Tecia got taken down and controlled. She's not stronger than Carla. Maybe at a pure weightlifting competition but not when it comes to mma.

The "small wrestler" outmuscled Tecia. And Tecia did nothing of note on the feet, much like many of her fights.

 

[MescalineDreams]

It wasn't easy for Zhang to take Tecia down because of Tecia's speed; she couldn't grab a hold of her and Zhang is a lot faster than Tatiana. I think you could be right though; I could see Tatiana beating Tecia easily if she got her to the ground but I don't think it would be as easy as when she fought Carla.

Joanna's defensive wrestling is very good. It's not easy to take her down and if you do take her down, she gets right back up. Valentina is very strong and fought at 135; she couldn't keep Joanna down and she couldn't do much damage to her on the ground.

I would love to see Zhang Vs Tatiana. Hopefully that fight happens soon.

All due respect to Tecia, I think she'd get smoked pretty badly by Tatiana. It would look like Andrade but worse

Zhang didn't really shoot on Tecia, she relied on those hip tosses / clinch style takedowns.

I don't think Tecia would be able to keep her off at all.

Joanna is a different story though. Even her though, if Tatiana manages to get her down..I don't see her getting back up, certainly not easily. That's a different level of top control.

 

[pcbh167]

Lmao a wrestler wrestling is not "panic wrestling". Tecia got taken down and controlled. She's not stronger than Carla. Maybe at a pure weightlifting competition but not when it comes to mma.

The "small wrestler" outmuscled Tecia. And Tecia did nothing of note on the feet, much like many of her fights.

I just watched the fight again. I knew I was right when I said I remember Carla was panic wrestling. I say panic wrestling because Carla looked like she didn't know how to wrestle. She kept diving for takedowns like Jeff Hardy but Tecia stuffed over 10 takedown attempts from Carla. Carla took her down a few times, but it was very difficult for her.

Also, I didn't see Carla exhibit any strength advantage over Tecia in the fight and now that I've watched this fight again, I remember on the show, Carla accused Tecia of being on steroids so it sounds like even Carla knows that Tecia is stronger than she is.

 

[pcbh167]

All due respect to Tecia, I think she'd get smoked pretty badly by Tatiana. It would look like Andrade but worse

Zhang didn't really shoot on Tecia, she relied on those hip tosses / clinch style takedowns.

I don't think Tecia would be able to keep her off at all.

Joanna is a different story though. Even her though, if Tatiana manages to get her down..I don't see her getting back up, certainly not easily. That's a different level of top control.

I'm not too sure about Tecia and Tatiana but Joanna is big and strong. I think it would be harder for Tatiana to take her down and if Carla can get up a few times against Tatiana, I think Joanna can do it much easier.

Also, as I said before, Tatiana's cardio is questionable. I was shocked that Valentina gassed in the fifth round against Joanna. When she clinched Joanna by the cage; Joanna was hitting her knees to the stomach, she was defending her takedowns and she was getting up without taking much damage on the ground and all that caused Val to gas. Valentina is known for her cardio so if Joanna can gas her out, I really think she could do the same to Tatiana.

 

[MescalineDreams]

I'm not too sure about Tecia and Tatiana but Joanna is big and strong. I think it would be harder for Tatiana to take her down and if Carla can get up a few times against Tatiana, I think Joanna can do it much easier.

Also, as I said before, Tatiana's cardio is questionable. I was shocked that Valentina gassed in the fifth round against Joanna. When she clinched Joanna by the cage; Joanna was hitting her knees to the stomach, she was defending her takedowns and she was getting up without taking much damage on the ground and all that caused Val to gas. Valentina is known for her cardio so if Joanna can gas her out, I really think she could do the same to Tatiana.

Carla Is actually a wrestler though. Nowhere near the same level, but she did train with a college team leading up to the fight with Tatiana.

Wrestlers In general are difficult to hold down. It could be argued that Joanna has the better TDD, but once you actually get her down..It may be a different story.

But yeah, styles make fights. Obviously Joanna has been In there for many championship bouts and has far more experience In deep water.

Problem with wrestling Is that It's not necessarily that their cardio Is bad..but It's the amount of energy that has to be put Into each shot, clinch attempt, etc. It requires a different level of energy management which is what we've seen from guys like Yoel, Woodley, etc. It can take time and experience before a high level wrestler really has it down for MMA. At the same time, It's different In the sense that I don't think there's anybody in WMMA who's capable of stopping her shot or making her work In the way that someone like Whittaker might make Yoel work for example.

In any case, seems that would be a clear strategy against Tatiana is to make her work and drag her Into those deeper waters. but as she gets more experience, I don't think it will be that simple. Especially because WMMA generally lags so far behind Men in terms of wrestling / grappling. But who knows, nothing is really definitive for her right now..we need to see more of her.

 

[pcbh167]

Carla Is actually a wrestler though. Nowhere near the same level, but she did train with a college team leading up to the fight with Tatiana.

Wrestlers In general are difficult to hold down. It could be argued that Joanna has the better TDD, but once you actually get her down..It may be a different story.

But yeah, styles make fights. Obviously Joanna has been In there for many championship bouts and has far more experienced In deep water.

Problem with wrestling Is that It's not necessarily that their cardio Is bad..but It's the amount of energy that has to be put Into each shot, clinch attempt, etc. It requires a different level of energy management which is what we've seen from guys like Yoel, Woodley, etc. It can take time and experience before a high level wrestler really has it down for MMA. At the same time, It's different In the sense that I don't think there's anybody in WMMA who's capable of stopping her shot or making her work In the way that someone like Whittaker might make Yoel work for example.

In any case, seems that would be a clear strategy against Tatiana is to make her work and drag her Into those deeper waters. but as she gets more experience, I don't think it will be that simple. But who knows, nothing is really definitive for her right now..we need to see more of her.

I agree and I'm excited to see how Tatiana does against these fighters.

The only fighter that I think has given Tatiana a tough fight was JJ Aldrich. I recall Tatiana got a cut on her face in that fight.

 

[Better Every Day]

Esparza... Tecia is even smaller

Sherdog and Tapology list both Esparza and Torres as 5'1" in height.
Tapology also gives heights in cm. and lists them both at a height of 155 cm.

 

[Horriblehim]

Pics

 

[Better Every Day]

Just had a kid a month ago

Congratulations!

 

[aerius]

Joanna's takedown defense, while good, is also overstated. Claudia Gadelha continually took her down, even in their rematch, for the first 2 rounds before tiring. Shevchenko was taking her down at will. Plus Joanna probably isn't making 115 pounds again thanks to her boob job.

The only two strawweights that Suarez wouldn't be a considerable favorite against are Rose and Jessica Andrade. Maybe Zhang too if she continues improving.

Claudia's wrestling when she was still with her old team was second only to Suarez, and her blast double was actually better than Tatiana's. Suarez has a better clinch and transition game, but she doesn't have Claudia's striking game to help setup the takedowns. We need to remember that Claudia back in those days was a lot better overall than she is now, between the losses to Joanna & Andrade and changing teams & coaches every few months she's a shell of her former self.

Another thing. Other than Nunes, Valentina was having an easier time throwing around and taking down 135ers than she was against Joanna. Even Nunes got her leg swept and dumped on her ass easier than Joanna, Nunes went down on the initial sweep whereas Joanna survived the sweep and didn't go down until it was transitioned to a throw. While I agree that Suarez will get Joanna down at some point, she's going to have to work hard to get her down and keep her there.

As for Rose, I don't think we can make any conclusions about her just yet. She hasn't fought a wrestler since Carla nor has she gone up against someone who's tried to pressure her since Karolina. She's improved her overall skills since then but no one's really tested anything other than her distance striking. She might be able to deal with a wrestler trying to pressure her or she might go to pieces like Anthony Pettis as soon as someone forces her backwards. The Andrade fight will tell us a lot about her assuming Jessica comes in with her usual game plan.

 

[mirror45]

I consider her to be scuffed btech khabib. You judge for yourself

 

[blaseblah]

Sherdog and Tapology list both Esparza and Torres as 5'1" in height.
Tapology also gives heights in cm. and lists them both at a height of 155 cm.

They are both small fighters but Esparza is clearly the better wrestler and had never been manhandled like what Suarez did to her. Maybe Jag took her down? I haven't watched that fight. Either way, its silly to downplay the Esparza win and then bring up Torres as a bigger threat to Suarez. Especially since she doesn't pose a danger with her point fighting style.

 

[blaseblah]

I just watched the fight again. I knew I was right when I said I remember Carla was panic wrestling. I say panic wrestling because Carla looked like she didn't know how to wrestle. She kept diving for takedowns like Jeff Hardy but Tecia stuffed over 10 takedown attempts from Carla. Carla took her down a few times, but it was very difficult for her.

Also, I didn't see Carla exhibit any strength advantage over Tecia in the fight and now that I've watched this fight again, I remember on the show, Carla accused Tecia of being on steroids so it sounds like even Carla knows that Tecia is stronger than she is.

Lol how come the "stronger" fighter couldn't prevent herself from getting out grappled? You're talking nonsense.

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

Yes, massively.

 

[blaccbeard]

Quick scrolled all 4 pages of this thread and didn't see a single pic of her posted.

 

[pcbh167]

Lol how come the "stronger" fighter couldn't prevent herself from getting out grappled? You're talking nonsense.

At least I know what I'm talking about. LOL You said Carla didn't shoot once against Tecia, but she shot over 10 times and Tecia stuffed most of her takedown attempts.

And Carla was able to out-grapple Tecia because she is a wrestler and her wrestling technique is good. It had nothing to with Carla being stronger than Tecia. Tecia was able to hold Joanna against the cage for a long time; does that mean Tecia is stronger than Joanna?

 

[NSTG94]

No

 

[blaseblah]

At least I know what I'm talking about. LOL You said Carla didn't shoot once against Tecia

Nowhere did I say that. Now you're making things up.

but she shot over 10 times and Tecia stuffed most of her takedown attempts.

How many times do Khabib or Askren shoot takedowns? The number of takedowns a wrestler goes for is irrelevant. The end goal for a wrestler is to takedown and control their opponent and Esparza did that.

And Carla was able to out-grapple Tecia because she is a wrestler and her wrestling technique is good. It had nothing to with Carla being stronger than Tecia. Tecia was able to hold Joanna against the cage for a long time; does that mean Tecia is stronger than Joanna?

So you're saying Tecia is weak against good wrestlers? Then why on Earth do you think she would pose a threat to Suarez?